 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-06-17 08:06
Does anyone have any inputs or comments about Laubin oboe ? I noticed they have a 7 year wait and by then I will probably need a new oboe anyway, so I got on their long waiting list.
I have owned Hans Kreul (now out of business), Marigaux and more recently Rigoutat Expression.
I like the French oboes best. The Laubin would be my first American made oboe. I have not had the privilege of playing on a Laubin.
Can someone do a technical comparision between the Laubin and Marigaux/Rigoutat or (Loree), on basis of how it sounds, key work, quality and anything that is distiguishable in the Laubin etc.
The thing that puzzles me is why they need a resin sheath in the upper joint, which the French oboes do not have such a thing. I know the resin sheath is for cracks, so is the Laubin Grednilla wood for some reason more susceptible to cracks ?
Fortunately, in all my years of playing and owning oboes, I never had to deal with any cracks !
Post Edited (2010-06-17 08:08)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-06-17 12:16
The bore lining is a preventative measure against cracks, so always a good idea to have this - especially in N.America (and other places) where temperature differences can be wide and humidity levels can be very low due to hot air heating and air conditioning systems. All oboes and wooden instruments have the potential to cracking, so the bore lining further safeguards against this.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-06-17 14:31
I have heard rumors that some U.S. dealers have ceased to carry Marigaux oboes because of universal severe cracking problems. So, no, Laubin isn't using wood that isn't more prone to cracking.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-06-17 16:28
hey Mike,
That's a pretty powerful statement!
I haven't come across this rumor yet.
I owned a Fossati where the entire top joint cracked to the core.
I owned a Loree that cracked above the F# key.
My Marigaux did develop a very insignificant/superficial hairline crack in the trill key tone hole which I had preventatively repaired.
So ....................... ?
I heard that even Greenlines at times crack too!
Mark
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2010-06-17 20:53
I too have heard the same rumors Mike Schmidt explained regarding Marigauxs and their recent cracking issues. But I think this might be across the board. I've also heard (and seen) from reliable repair people that the newest Lorees (Late Q's and onward) have been near exploding, of which the owners have sent back the topjoints to Loree to be completely replaced under warranty. So what are we to do?
I do think that while aging has to do with some of the cracking issues, it is a small part of the equation. My Hiniker was made out of 70 year old Grenadilla wood from Loree, and within the first year it cracked. One could argue that perhaps 70 years of aging made it so hard and settled into one position, that when it became an instrument with vibrations transferring through it, the wood didn't like that too much.
Cooper
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
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Author: hautbois
Date: 2010-06-17 21:12
I live in a difficult climate for oboes -- the mountains near Denver. It is cold and dry in the winter, there is a brief moist period sometime in the spring, and the summers are hot and mostly dry. I owned numerous instruments over the 50 years I played, and every one of them cracked except for my Laubin. I think that the sleeve was the primary part of the crack prevention. But I also think that Laubin has historically (I do not know if there have been any changes) selected their wood with care. In the 1950's, when my teacher took me to Al Laubin's studio near New York City, he told me a story -- which may be myth but may have an element of truth. Laubin did a preliminary cut on the wood for the oboes, left it outside over the winter, and used the pieces which survived the ordeal. The Laubin I played on (and thoroughly appreciated) was made in the 90s. Although I ended my professional career playing on two magnificent Marigaux model 2001 oboes (both of which cracked, but were repaired with no ill effects), I will always love that Laubin.
Elizabeth
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Author: lbarton
Date: 2010-06-17 22:51
I have owned and played ancient Kohlert, terrible Linton, Rigoutat, German Gordet, Loree and Laubin. The Laubin without a doubt is the most reliable, consistent instrument arround. I currently own one made in the 70's and another about seven years old. My daughter owns an even older one from the 60's and one only about 3 years old. I would trust any one of them to play reliably and they have needed very little adjustments compared to any of the others including Lorees. NONE have ever cracked. That being said, one of my former teachers who played 1st in the NYC Opera stated once that you can expect at least 50% of brand new oboes to crack, regardless of brand and including Lorees. I think he was about correct on that estimate.
The Laubin is slightly heavier than some, tho less than the massive German Gordet , it has what some describe as a darker sound. The well made reed that is best for a Loree will not be the best in the Laubin and vice versa. One has to get used to slight reed adjustments for different instruments. My suggestion is put your name on their list, as last time I checked they don't even ask for a deposit, and if you find "the perfect oboe" before the Laubin is ready they have another seven years of people waiting to take the new one. It is a tiny company, you deal personally with the owner and their integrity is top notch. My daughter essentially quit playing for over 15 years, but kept her Laubin, and every Christmas we would play duets. That is the only instrument I have ever run across that you could take out of the case only once or twice a year and it would play just fine regardless of season, weather, lack of use, adjustment, whatever...nuff said. Lois Barton
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-06-17 23:44
Cjwright:
I just joined the board, so what are the search fields that I should use to get your comments on the Laubin oboe ?
Alternatively, a short, frank and candid synopsis on the laubin oboe would be very much appreciated, other that it is a great and quite expensive oboe to buy. I am looking for a technical synopsis.
I live in a hot and humid area and i dont think i will have any problems with cracking. My 40 year old Hans Kreul has not cracked and similarly my 11 year old Rigoutat is in good shape. Although, with the all the rumors about the Marigaux, unfortunately, I had traded that in for my Rigoutat. I had that for about 15 years, and it didnt crack. The then new Loree was stolen, so I will never know.
Like I said, the Laubin would be my first US HAND made oboe. I am wondering if the workmanship is so perfect that it puts the machine made oboes to shame ? How about consistency from oboe to oboe ? Because Laubin will only send me ONE when my queue number is up. What they send me may not exactly suit my playing style or sound that I am looking for, and I may have to reject it on that basis. While a similar oboe shipped to someone else may be exact fit for me....then I will never know what I could have bought and owned. Or I can spend monies to ship it up and down to Laubin to get them to tweak it to exactly how I want it. Then, for about USD10k, that is a lot of WORK, and may not be any guarantee of success. This is the problem I face.
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Author: hautbois
Date: 2010-06-18 00:41
My Laubin was snapped up immediately when I put it on the market a few years ago. I have played in orchestras with musicians who played Laubin English Horns. They were beautiful. The ensembles tended to be at 440-442, and the EHs never seemed to be out of tune. Presumably an appropriate bocal can be selected.
By the way, I used Laubin bocals on my Loree d'amore and on my Marigaux d'amore.
Elizabeth
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-06-18 02:32
The sweet and ringing sound is best brought out by Liang Wang, who plays on a laubin.
http://liangoboe.com/
I hear that he is also very anal about his reeds. Gotta just get it perfect.
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-06-19 01:40
There are lots of comparisons between Loree and Laubin. Perhaps, most of the contributors are trained in the American tradition, since the Loree is the default choice of most oboists in US.
Except for a one liner that I read somewhere about comparing Rigoutat J and the Laubin, but didnt say very much.
Can anyone offer comments on a comparison between Rigoutat and Laubin ?
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2010-06-19 02:04
I played a Rigoutat J back in December and it felt very very Laubinish. We took it to Martin and he agreed that it was very Laubinish. The tuning is similar to a Loree, but the overall color and feel was very similar.
Granted, we're talking about the new J model, not the Expression or Symphony model.
The Laubin seems better constructed, more refined mechanically and more detail is given to the finishing the Rigoutat was a bit "rough" in the finishing of the toneholes, hinge tubes, and other areas of construction.
Not much else to say. I'm sure there will be some at IDRS Oklahoma. Nora Post is the contact person for these instruments.
Cooper
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-06-19 02:33
Cooper:
Thx for the input.
cjwright wrote:
> I played a Rigoutat J back in December and it felt very very
> Laubinish. We took it to Martin and he agreed that it was very
> Laubinish. The tuning is similar to a Loree, but the overall
> color and feel was very similar.
(I HAVE NEVER TRIED A LAUBIN, HENCE QUITE UNCLEAR WHAT "LAUBINISH" MEANS. IS IT IN TERMS OF SOUND, ENGINEERING, KEYWORK HANDLING, WHAT ? IS THIS THE SAME MARTIN SCHURING THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT? EXCUSE MY IGNORACE.)
>
> Granted, we're talking about the new J model, not the
> Expression or Symphony model.
(AGAIN, HAVE NEVER TRIED THE NEW RIGOUTAT J, EITHER, HOW IS THE J DIFFERENT FROM THE EXPRESSION, EVOLUTION AND SYMPHONY ?)
>
> The Laubin seems better constructed, more refined mechanically
> and more detail is given to the finishing the Rigoutat was a
> bit "rough" in the finishing of the toneholes, hinge tubes, and
> other areas of construction.
(I WOULDNT SAY THAT RIGOUTAT HAS THE GREATEST FINISH. BUT FOR ABOUT USD10K, I EXPECT THE LAUBIN TO BE IMMACULATELY FINISHED, WITH NO DINKS TO THE SILVER KEYWORK, OR ANY HINTS OF TARNISHING WHICH WAS NOT SO FOR THE NEW RIGOUTAT. LIKE U SAID "ROUGH". PERHAPS THE RIGOUTAT "J " IS DONE MUCH BETTER COMPARED TO PREVIOUS GENERATION LINES OF OBOES? ANY COMMENTS ?)
>
> Not much else to say. I'm sure there will be some at IDRS
> Oklahoma. Nora Post is the contact person for these
> instruments.
(I THOT NORA SELLS RIGOUTAT, LOREE AND OTHERS. I THINK SHE STOPPED SELLING MARIGAUX FOR SOME REASON OR OTHER. I DONT THINK SHE IS AN AGENT FOR LAUBIN. BUT YES, SHE HAS ARTICLES ON COMPARISONS ON THE BRANDS SHE SELLS. SHE HAS A LAUBIN HERSELF, BUT HAVE BEEN UNABLE TO GET HER TO COMMENT ON THE LAUBIN. IT MIGHT BE ONE OF THOSE CONFLICT OF INTEREST THINGS TO TALK ABOUT AS SHE DOES REPRESENT OTHER TOP BRANDS. IT IS HARD TO GIVE A OBJECTIVE COMMENT WITHOUT HINTING AT SOME SUBJECTIVITY, AND I DONT BLAME HER. SHE TOO HAS HER LIKES AND DISLIKES.)
>
> Cooper
>
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2010-06-19 05:24
I'll assume your caps are just to keep your comments straight from mine, and not a "screaming" tone as they seem to imply to me.
Laubins have a certain resistance to the air which I classify as a "Laubinish feel". I would suggest that the resistance is more, and requires more constant blowing and less variation in the speed of the wind than you would encounter with a Loree. Consequentially, the amount of sound and the effect of color that you receive back with this amount of constant blowing is the whole package of which I would classify into the term "Laubinish". And yes, I have mentioned that I am here in Arizona and have been studying with Martin Schuring this past year, and will be starting my DMA this year several times, perhaps not in this thread, so I assumed that most readers would have picked up that I was speaking of my professor.
Yes, Laubins are very polished, flawless in their silverwork. Some might argue that the ergonomics might not be to their liking as much as a Loree, but I view the issue as more of a "Some like tea, others like coffee" opinion.
Yes, the Rigoutat J is a different model from the Symphony and the Expression, which is an entirely different topic that I'd rather not get in to.
Yes, the finishing on the Rigoutat J from what I saw was more refined, but still a ways to go. I'm not saying it was a bad job, but was a ways off from what you would get from a hand-finished finely crafted job like Laubin.
Finally, nobody is "an agent" (i.e. retailer) for Laubin other than Laubin, but just about any used dealer would sell a used Laubin.
Cooper
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-06-19 07:38
Cooper:
Sorry about the CAPS thing, implying that I was "screaming" at you, as there is no other way except to hit the "quote" below which will take the most recent post's text and paste it here... and if you are not the recent and last to post, then tough for me, then I have to do a cut and paste thing. Then, there is no color text to change, so that one would distinguish the authors of the text....well, I was just making do with what I have available to me.
I have seen Martin Schuring's site and have his book, Oboe Art Method. Yes, I am new to the site, so I guessed, since Martin is a household name in the oboe world, that he must be the great Martin Schuring.
I am still very intrigue by his circular breathing technique, although I have heard of it in the past, and didnt think it was possible then, but his method with the straw may be workable, though, far from being easy.
Double tonguing up to flutter tonguing also is a good challenge for most oboists, starting with Bizet's Carmen and other pieces on up, for the ultimate at tongue manipulation at its best on the oboe reed !
I did put my name on the new laubin list, and they did tell me of the 6.5 year wait. So, I am now prepared with the knowlege of what to expect. As far as ergonomics, that is also, "to each his own". During my last oboe purchase some 10 years back, I tried the Loree, Marigaux and Rigoutat, I picked the latter because i thought it was the most ergonomic and responded the best. The Marigaux gave a good fight and thought it was a great instrument. However, on all 3, the finish was "rough", so I picked the one that played the best and the most comfortable over "long distance or long haul" playing. The Marigaux was just a tad heavy for me and needed a small adjustment on the keywork as I remember was the F key, and didnt want to hassle with it getting fixed. Being a new instrument, I shouldnt have to take it in for repairs this early in the game. I liked comparing the oboes side by side and then you get a greater sense of what you are actually looking for.
Anyway, thanks for the great comments and inputs. I am guessing you are working on your doctorate in music. Lots of luck in your endeavors and it is great to see someone with a passion for the oboe and actually embarking on a lifelong career in music.
Post Edited (2010-06-19 08:02)
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-06-19 12:08
Here' my two cents:
I do not own or ever owned a Laubin Oboe.
Here are my impressions based upon a very limited sample of two or three oboes I have played over the decade.
They are very pitch stable instruments with a very good scale.
Is this regard I consider them relatively easy to play.
However, I always felt "boxed" in on a Laubin oboe.
I found the Laubin more inflexible.
I could not move the air stream as I would have wanted - - and I had trouble "bending" the sound and creating more color in the tone.
Mark
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2010-06-19 18:34
I have only tried a Rigoutat for a few minutes when I was a student.
In Québec, back then, most chose Lorée out of snobbery more than anything - in the English world, some appreciation was given to Fox. In the French crowd, some chose Rigoutat though its keywork (back then) was less than Lorée.
My impressions of the Rigoutat reflects the reason people bought it and kept it: very easy to blow - I have no other way of putting it. The sound just comes out more easily and the tuning / stability are amazing..... or they were in the late 1980s.
I wouldn't be able to compare with Laubin. I have also tried a used laubin for a few minutes yeeeeaars ago. I was flaberghasted by how good it was.
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: oboeidaho
Date: 2010-06-19 20:19
I have a Laubin and a Loree. The Laubin was my teacher's which I inherited. I have had it laying around for ages, and finally sent it in for an overhaul (it is 40+ years old). It played great, but I could relate to the "boxed in" feeling others have mentioned. Then I decided to play it for a long run of a musical since it was in the double case (ok that IS a pathetic reason, but there ya go). After playing the same thing every night for a few weeks, I really got the reeds going and now I LOVE it! I feel it has a naturally darker tone than my Loree, which I was using very dark harder reeds on to compensate. With a more flexable reed I get great results. I am not familiar with Marigaux although I played one last year and I wasn't impressed - it was ok.
I love both of my instruments, and like Cooper said, if you find THE OBOE before the 7 year wait is up, just take your name off the list. Good luck!
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-06-20 06:01
Thx for all the comments and inputs. Looks like I will be in for a nice surprise 7 years later.
Unless, my present oboe breaks within this 7 years, I may just wait patiently for my Laubin.
mjfoboe said: "However, I always felt "boxed" in on a Laubin oboe.
I found the Laubin more inflexible.
I could not move the air stream as I would have wanted - - and I had trouble "bending" the sound and creating more color in the tone."
I am a bit puzzled by the "boxed" in, or "inflexible comments. Is it a playing style, or what ? Moving the air stream like in a vibrato ? Or like u said bending the sounds as in like a guitar doing "bends" as changing a note frequency sharp or flat on purpose ? Like playing the Rites of Spring by Stravinsky, perhaps ?
Post Edited (2010-06-20 06:07)
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-06-20 12:13
Hi,
Sometimes - when playing with the air stream - its speed, intensity, vibrato - some instruments allow for more color - that is - if you push the air in different ways - you can get different tonal color.
With the Laubin, I felt that no matter how I used the air - the tone color stayed relatively the same - thus "boxed in".
It has nothing to do with pitch - I use the term "bending" since it was used by a friend who used the phrase when I changed the tone color while interpreting a musical line - he said " I was bending the sound!"
Mark
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-06-20 13:30
mjfoboe:
No matter how u push the air the tone is the same, hence lacking in tonal color. Wonder why that is. I have not noticed that problem with the French and German oboes. Also, depending on what you are playing, if for example doing a baroque piece, tonal color may not be as important. Interesting observation. However, doing even a Mozart, use of tonal color would be more important.
Oboegouger:
Yes, studying the Laubin is a 7 year wait no matter what and will cost me USD10k, dont u think I need to know and be damn sure of what I am getting into for that amount of money and time ?
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Author: Bryanwalker
Date: 2010-06-20 13:55
The good thing is, that if you buy a new laubin and don't like it, you can always sell it. There is a demand for new or slightly new Laubins and you can always sell it for what you paid for it.
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2010-06-20 17:55
I think Mark perfectly described what I dislike about many Laubins and their inflexibility with the air. Meanwhile I can't think of any style of music where tone color is "less important" since it is a critical part of the music making, just as pitch and rhythm is just as important in all styles of music.
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2010-06-21 02:04
There is a difference in the right hand keywork spacing when you compare a Laubin and Loree. The Laubin may be more comfortable for those with small hands and the Loree more comfortable for those with larger hands.
Those who play Lorees may feel physically boxed in with a Laubin and not realize that they're a little more cramped than usual due to the keywork difference.
♫ Stephen K.
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-06-21 02:11
That is very interesting, Laubin suited for small hands, I assume, short fingers too. Then it would not be ergonomic for someone with long fingers and hands.
I cant remember the Loree feel, because I only owned it for a vey short time, but are most French oboes more comfortable for people with larger hands and longer fingers ?
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2010-06-21 10:21
I only really know Lorée as I have only owned that one and played several others in the military.
But I had to get a special extension key for the right index (I think they are standard now) and its right-hand spread did contribute to tendinitis - one of the factors that stopped my pro. life.
I'm having it revoiced now and will never part with it - too much history together - but perhaps I should put my name on the list for a used Laubin?
Note to any interested: what really helps prevent tendinitis relapses is a big-ugly thumb-rest I make myself from a wine cork. Not anywhere near like what you buy from the stores. The idea is to apply vector mechanics to ergonomics: maintain the thumbs natural position. I assume they should be made by the oboist her/himself as no two hands are alike.
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-06-21 11:10
I got a rubber thumb rest that came with the oboe, but doesnt stop the tendinitis. How quaint, starts from the thumb, and now has kind of spread to my right hand D key. Every once in a while causes pain and locking the joint. Considering, if I should get surgery for it.
Well, since they dont take a deposit, and they give u a 7 day trial upon receipt, and if u like it, keep it. Dont, u foot the shipping back. Now, I am a bit concerned that the Laubin is best for small hands, then the tendinitis may be exarcebated.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2010-06-21 14:03
>>Note to any interested: what really helps prevent tendinitis relapses is a big-ugly thumb-rest I make myself from a wine cork.<<
Here's my solution:
http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/Thumb.htm
I have one on all of my instruments. Just slit the top to allow it to go over thumb rests with the eye.
Susan
Post Edited (2010-06-21 14:04)
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2010-06-21 15:45
Susan, is the Ridenour compatible on an adjustable thumbrest?
Regards,
Howard
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2010-06-21 16:18
Howard --
His website (see link above) says it fits "most" adjustables. Define "most"?
Susan
Edit: Actually, it doesn't say "most". It says it fits "many" adjustables. Drop Tom a line. He'll answer.
Post Edited (2010-06-21 16:22)
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2010-06-21 17:00
The spread makes sense:
If your thumb is pushing upwards, your whole hand might be trying to expand. Result your right hand ring finger (weakest) is straining as it should not.
I used hockey tape to keep a wine cork on my normal thumb rest. I made it so my thumb points downward and deep enough so my thumb is about where the middle finger is. Using a straight Olfa or X-Acto knife or even a razor blade cuts the cork easily enough: use a sawing motion.
Right now, I have tennis elbow and neck strains, but I can play pretty well normally..... that is, I only have time to do about 30 minutes a day.
Best of luck!
Robin
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2010-06-21 17:05
Yah...... but your thumb can still point upward and potentially get your hand to extend extraneously compared to my own gizmo (http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=10&i=15869&t=15778)
AT ANY RATE, this is a very individual thing as our hands are all very different. What works for me could be brutal to you and vice-versa.
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-06-22 07:25
On the side, OHSUZAN, the "nickname" has a Japanese ring to it. Reminds me of a famous samurai, Mushashi Miyamoto's first love, named Otsu-san. There is a 3 part series called the Samurai trilogy, she is featured in them.
Also, then again it could just be oh- susan...
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Author: Koch Fan
Date: 2010-06-23 02:41
As someone who has played Laubin oboes and English horns my entire career, with a fair amount of success....I suggest that those who feel that Laubins are "boxed in" or "stuffy" simply never took the time to learn how to make a reed for a Laubin......
They sing as well as any oboe made. Some of us feel they sing more freely and beautifully than any other brand of oboe. They have such a complex and appealing color spectrum to their sound. For many of us, their scale is far superior to that on many brands of oboe. They are definitely not everyone's cup of tea, but for those of us who play them, we're awfully thankful that they are available to us!!
Laubins definitely need to be broken in. It usually takes mine about a year to fully blossom. For me...Loree oboes feel "used" (like they're 5 years old, right out of the box) and they feel out of tune.
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-06-23 07:49
Koch fan:
I have been wondering about Laubin's being more suited for people with small hands as some have said. What kind of hands do you have ? Is it ture about the size of hands and fingers ?
By the way, about the way you make reeds for the Laubin, what are you doing different, by way of reed style, scrapes, what in particular ?
I totally agree with you about breaking in the oboe, it is true for most brands. I dont own a Loree, so I cant comment.
I am trying to collate as many comments and inputs on the Laubin, as I have just put my name on the list for one. And I have never played or owned a Laubin. Hence, all inputs and comments are especially valuable.
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Author: Octave C. Crow
Date: 2010-06-23 19:40
I was very fortunate to have had some superb Loree oboes in my late teens and early twenties but even those instruments, made in the 1960s and 1970s and selected in France by members of one of the top American orchestras, wore out quickly and cracked easily. I still try oboes by Loree (and Yamaha, and Marigaux, and Howarth, etc.) when the opportunity arises and I can see the appeal of some of the notes on some of them...some of the time... They will remain more popular and the advantage of being able to try a dozen at a time is a great thing. If you know what you want you can cherry pick very good instruments from such a group.
Personally, if I were ever tempted to buy another Loree it would probably be a B or C series... I remember some bad oboe players whose daddies had bought oboes in France...I would love to get my mitts on some of those instruments today, I confess, especially if the no-longer-young artist "hadn't touched it since high school".
I completely agree with Koch fan's remarks about the tone color and intonation of Laubin oboes. I think some of the less experienced members of the list may write eloquently but...
I have owned seven Laubin oboes and two English horns in the last 20 years. Every one of them was worth the wait.
Many sophisticated Loree owners swear by various reboring strategies to correct problem notes and timbre. David Weber and Carlos Coehlo are two prominent practitioners of this art. And when I was studying with him John Mack taught me how to use fingernail polish to tune toneholes. Etc. Etc.
I am sure that Koch fan will agree with me that this kind of carpentry is totally unnecessary with any Laubin oboe. Though (under protest I think) they will put a new rubber sleeve in a really old instrument when doing a complete restoration. To be honest I did once have an oboe with a slightly flat c natural..they fixed it. That's the only pitch issue I ever had.
I suppose a serious student or professional oboe player would certainly find that the first couple of weeks with a Laubin would feel like swimming upstream but after that time the difference in the tone of the oboe would begin to work with the reeds you make for it. Give your old reeds away to a student.
hautbois francais: don't give up on finding a used oboe that still plays great.
The English horns are unbelievably wonderful. Pay any price if you find one that works.
Laubin repair and restoration work is superb and amazingly affordable. The oboes give a back flavor of pipe tobacco when they come back from the shop! May Paul Laubin live in good health for many years to come!
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-06-23 21:38
It's great to have such diversity!
No one wants a homogenous oboe sound.
Let's hope that all (new) players have the support and opportunity to try many brands of Oboes and not be directed to only one tradition.
Mark
A Very Happy Marigaux 901 Oboist
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Author: oboedrew
Date: 2010-06-23 22:21
Octave C. Crow wrote:
> I suppose a serious student or professional oboe player
> would certainly find that the first couple of weeks with
> a Laubin would feel like swimming upstream but after
> that time the difference in the tone of the oboe would
> begin to work with the reeds you make for it. Give
> your old reeds away to a student.
Well said! And I think the same is true of most oboes. Whenever we try an unfamiliar instrument, we feel constrained. But it's not the instrument's fault. It's just that we form our opinions prematurely, without giving ourselves time to adapt.
Anyway, we have to keep in mind that our audiences don't care about our endless debates over the characteristics of various oboes. They care HOW we play, not WHAT we play.
Cheers,
Drew
www.oboedrew.com
Post Edited (2010-06-23 22:23)
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-06-23 22:30
Now BOTH Koch fan and Octave C Crow, talked about reeds made for the Laubin.............now I am curious:
What are u doing different to make a reed for the Laubin ? In terms of reed style, American or European ? Scrapes ? Enhancing the darker tones ? What in particular do you need to do to make the reed just right for the Laubin ?
I do not dismiss a used Laubin. It is difficult to find a used Laubin that just suits you, just right. I definitely dont want one that cracked before, though repaired. A cracked instrument is likely to crack again because the wood is already weak, even though I am in a tropical place. I figure about 7 years, I am due fo a new oboe anyway, so the timing is right for me. Meanwhile, I am always on the lookout for a nice oboe.
Oboedrew said: "Well said! And I think the same is true of most oboes. Whenever we try an unfamiliar instrument, we feel constrained. But it's not the instrument's fault. It's just that we form our opinions prematurely, without giving ourselves time to adapt."
People are naturally biased to what they are used to. Then you need to open your mind to something new and make a reed like everyone has said to suit the new instrument. Then you get a Laubin that just fits you.
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Author: Octave C. Crow
Date: 2010-06-24 22:24
I hate to get lured into generalizations about reeds. I think unless you are young and under the thumb of a very very demanding teacher (and there aren't many of them around) who insists on a change in your way of playing you will end up sounding to other people like yourself--whatever that means--on any decent instrument after an hour and a couple of new reeds.
Post Edited (2010-06-24 22:26)
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-06-25 03:35
Octave C:
I believe that is the case too, you'd likely make a reed that sounds like u in the end, no matter the brand of oboe.
I am glad to hear that the Laubin very durable and easy to work with. That is really good to know.
On the side: Some 40+ years ago at RSM UK where I attended, the teachers then were super demanding, you'd get smacked with a heavy hard rod in hand whenever you stuck your fingers too high from the oboe. If you didnt hold your knife just right when scrapping, they would take the reed from your hand, break it and trash it, followed by a box on the ear or a smack on the head......"corporal punishment" was very common place in schools in those days.
Thx for the comments and inputs about the Laubin.
Could someone post a picture of the resin sleeve that everyone is talking about ?
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-06-25 04:11
The resin sleeve is inside the oboe, so it's hard to take a good picture of.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-06-25 04:32
msschimdt:
Excuse my lack of experience with cracks on oboe, I thought the cracks were usually on the outside, and the resin sleeve is inside....does it mean the cracks on exterior can migrate to the inside and crack the oboe even worse ? Or if the crack is outside, the resin sleeve protects the bore ?
Trying to figure out the physics of the cracks that many have experienced.
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-06-25 04:38
I think the idea is that the resin sleeve keeps the moisture from the airstream from reaching the wood. The expansion of the inner wood from moisture is what causes the outer wood to crack on all-wood oboes.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-06-25 04:58
mschmidt:
Does this mean, there is no need to oil the bore with the resin sleeve on the Laubin ?
The warm air i(~30-37 deg C) n the bore and the colder external temperature (~<20 deg C) and the outside of the oboe causes a temperature gradient in the wood, which is enough to cause cracks because of the expansion of the wood from the interior.
This is interesting. Fortunately, my oboes only experienced external temperatures in the 30s deg C almost all year round, and hence does not see these severe temperature gradients like some of u folks been experiencing.
Thx for the insight.
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Author: lbarton
Date: 2010-06-25 22:29
Laubin advises against oiling the bore of their instruments.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-06-25 22:47
No oboes with lined bores need the bore oiled at all - they can almost be treated as though they're plastic-bodies instruments.
Wood is affected far more by changes in humidity levels than changes in temperature and will swell/shrink widthways with the grain. Plastic is the opposite as temperature changes cause it to expand/contract in all directions.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-07-06 13:54
Can someone post a full frontal pix of an assembled Laubin ?
And another pix disassembled in its case ?
Thx
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-07-08 05:40
wrowand:
Looks like you got the rosewood. Do you find any difference compared to grednadilla, eg in sound, cracks, durability etc ?
Beautifully made !!
Thx.
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-07-10 06:02
Many posts have said Laubin is suited for the small hands and fingers, is this true ?
Who, on this BB is long fingered and genearlly big hands owns and plays a Laubin ?
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Author: lbarton
Date: 2010-07-11 02:09
I have very large hands for a woman and have no trouble playing Laubin oboes. As osteoarthritis at age 78, deforms my right forefinger it is becoming difficult but Paul Laubin modified the key for me. I can easily switch to Loree or other brands of my students instruments when needed.
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-07-11 04:42
Ibarton:
Thx for the input. I have like a trigger finger on my right ring finger and thinking of getting it surgically fixed, but dont know if it will help. What kind of modification did Laubin make to accomodate your right forefinger problem ?
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Author: lbarton
Date: 2010-07-11 16:13
The arthritic bone in the finger now slants downward toward the E key and I would slide down and halfway close the little key between E and F# . He put an extension on the first finger, right hand key similar to the newer Lorees but much bigger and longer. It slants slightly up toward the lower end so that I don't slide off it. Other arthritic changes in third and fourth fingers have forced me to cork up the split ring D and put clear tape over the little hole in the E key. I've lost one rarely used trill but can still play quite a lot. Lois Barton
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-07-11 23:03
lbarton:
Normally, the right ring finger D has a small hole in the Laubin, that means u will have to plug up the hole ? Will it change the pitch of the high or low D ? Or in your case the E key by putting a clear tape over the small hole ?
After years of playing, now I find myself developing issues with the last little finger, having to access 3 keys and in a certain position, locks up my ring finger. But, if I can avoid surgery and have the keys retrofitted for my use, would be perfect.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2010-07-11 23:11
>>Here's a picture of my Laubin oboe in its case.<<
Wow! Love at first sight!
Susan
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Author: lbarton
Date: 2010-07-12 23:46
In dealing with the arthritis issue I have to make compromises. Whatever slight pitch change that might be made I can compensate for. You might try changing the height of the keys as I recently have done just as an experiment that can be easily reversed if you don't like it.
I found that using a piece of cork about 2 mm thick , cut round to fit on top of silver key and attached by double sided tape (available to hang pictures etc ) you can sometimes make the instrument playable, while not spoiling it if you later want to just pull it off.
By raising the F# and the E keys in right hand I now can reach and cover some of the lower things without leaking. Probably wouldn't work for covering split-ring D but helps a lot . It is not permanent, just peel off, but you can test results before spending a lot on permanent key modifications . On another oboe I own, which Laubin has not modified by lengthening the F# key (right hand, pointer finger, finger 2 if you are a piano player) I put a cork raising it about 2mm, plus a piece of emery board cut to lenghen the key (as Laubin did in silver) Using the double sided tape this "sandwich of cork and emery board" is attached to the key and it seems to work, at least for light use. Best of all it lets me see what helps without a permanent, expensive modification. I was quite surprised how big a difference simply raising some keys helps. The cramping of my fingers by forcibly trying to keep those keys covered was affecting the pinkie notes C D and C#. If you don't like it just peel it off and any sticky residue from the tape can be removed with alcohol or nail polish remover. I'm just guessing but you might try raising the height of the E and D keys like this and see if it helps with the trigger finger problem. Lois Barton
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-07-12 23:55
Attachment: Oboe modification.pdf (527k)
lbarton:
I have attached 2 pictures. You see how most oboes have the open D open hole D key ? And see how the Laubin has the small hole D-key ?
How about changing the D-key to the Laubin style small hole D key ? This will work for me. Will such a modification be expensive ?
At most, they need to adjust the pitch or make the D key opening higher.
Thx for the input.
Post Edited (2010-07-13 00:57)
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Author: wrowand
Date: 2010-07-13 22:24
The hole through the D-key on a Laubin is about the same as on any other full-conservatory instrument. The size of the hole is dictated by the amount of venting necessary to play an in-tune half-step trill on D#.
The hole looks smaller in the picture because of the lighting.
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-07-19 14:40
LBarton:
Rigoutat sent me a cork cap to solve my trigger finger problem. I hope it works !! Thx for all the advise and help.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2010-07-20 22:40
Yes, I own a fairly recent Laubin oboe as well as two Lorees from 1984 and 2005. They are all fine instruments each with a slightly different but nice sound.
My Laubin is very much in tune and has a very even scale. It does not need a third octave key. The high D is in good tune with the standard fingering. My fingers are larger than any man I know but fit well on the Laubin. It has a lovely sound and is made of grenadilla.
Reeds for the Laubin require some careful work. The RDG -2 shaper that I like for the Lorees is a bit too wide for the Laubin so I often make Laubin reeds with the -2 shaper but narrow the shape after completion of the reed. For the Laubin, the reeds should be very free crowing and not too long or wide to avoid too low a pitch, especially in the bottom of the oboe range. My Laubin reeds range from 69.5 to 70 mm in length, no longer, on 47 mm staples. I narrow the -2 reeds with silicon carbide abrasive paper or else a carefully controlled single edge razor blade. While I own narrower shapers, this works fine for me. As with the Loree reeds, I always try to make stable reeds, enabling easier and better tuning while playing.
The Laubin has required almost no adjustment since it was new in the late 90s after a four year wait, implying perfect adjustment in the small factory of Paul Laubin. Good luck!
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-07-20 23:34
Wes,
Thx for the great input on the large hands and I assume long fingers too. It looks like I wont regret getting one 6-7 years from now.
Sounds like if I use my normal reeds that I make, 70mm, 47 staple, Nagamatsu 1 staple tip should do ok ?
The high D in tune would be nice without too much adjustments that I need to make would be great. 2nd octave C and High D transition, usually gives some trouble on a troublesome oboe and/or reed.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2010-07-23 08:17
Hi Hautbois Francais!
The older Loree I have needs the middle finger down to get the pitch of the high D down while the new Loree and the Laubin do not need the middle right finger down. Thus, to simplify it, I have the habit of always putting the middle right finger down regardless of the instrument.
As I recall, Paul Laubin said that he used a Nagamatsu shaper but I forgot the size.
In Los Angeles, the oboe players are expected to play an A 440 for tuning as many orchestras try to play at A 440. The LA Philharmonic says that they tune to A 442 but I was reasonably sure some of the oboes used were Lorees tuned to A440.
I have a difficult or impossible task if I try to make A 442 reeds although an unstable reed can be played higher. My oboes were all made for A 440 and with a free blowing stable reed, that is what they want to play. One orchestra at USC I played in requested an A 442 which I gave them using my tuner and, despite the conductor, the orchestra was closer to A 440 generally, I believe, because that is where most of the players usually tuned.
Your name indicates you may be in France but I see no indication of the pitch level you try to play and tune to. I don't believe that Laubin would supply an oboe higher in pitch than A440. Good Luck!!!!
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-07-24 00:22
Wes:
On "most" brands of oboe, the high D with the right "birdie" finger, changes the pitch slightly on conservatoire systems. This "birdie" fingering is for the thumb plate system, I thought, that was how I first learnt it as a kid. Every once in a while, I'd also do the birdie on the high D, old habits are sometimes hard to break. On the conservatoire systems, the high C to high D smooth transition is cumbersome to do, without having some unwanted sounds coming out during the transition. Takes practice, i dont know of any other way to make a smooth transition every time and also there is a reed dependence. Some reeds I make, does a better job of the transition, and some reeds, I'd have a heck of a time.
I am ok with 440-442. The orchestras here, go by the oboe tuning and not very strict about the exact 440 either. That is one problem off my hair !
Thx for the great input.
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2010-07-27 16:59
I hope it's not too late to comment, and I hope as many people reed.... OUPS read.... this as possible.
3 weeks ago I received my Loree from being revoiced by David Teitelbaum, who happens to be the finisher at Laubin, although he has his own enterprise too (Teitelbaum Doublereed Co.). The result was just astonishing!
For the past 3 weeks, every time I play on that Loree, I like it even more. It remains a Loree standard bore with the wide-open top-joint and corresponding tone, but the work he did on the bell bore and the key adjustment just fixed the Loree problems so well!
Plus, he made a big deal about changing the pads and adjusting the keywork. I figured, for the 25th anniversary of it being my instrument, I should just get everything done (we've been through a lot together). WOW! the sensitivity is just amazing (closeness of keys) and really does help playing tremendously. I've played on a good dozen brand new Lorees, and since the repair, mine really surpasses them all.
If the sensitive keywork and dependable tuning is what some of you call "boxed in" feeling of the Laubin, then give it to me! I asked to be put on the list for a new one!
Cheers
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-07-28 04:58
Robin:
The "re-voicing" must have cost a bundle?
Are you also on the list for a Laubin ?
Does Teitelbaum revoice other brands other than Laubin and the Loree ?
Thx.
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2010-07-28 09:50
Yes, it did cost a bundle, but less than I had expected in comparison to previous repairs, many years ago - far less than a new instrument! But is was in the 4 figure range because he had to replace everything:
1. joing corks
2. all pads
3. all springs
4. all rods
5. all goupil (gouppee) screws
=> all of these were still working, but rusted!
Only after this, he consented on key adjustment and bore reaming.
I thought it was playing fine (in comparison to other Lorees) before that.... what a great surprize!
Best thing is to google his name and ask him if he'll repair yours. He is, naturally, very busy. I sent my Loree knowing that I'd have to leave it there for a month and a half: he does do the instruments of world-class pros., so I didn't mind the wait. That's the main reason I bought my student model on E-Bay.
Oh yeah, I'm on the list for a new Laubin all right! If I'm going to get another instrument, I figure I'll splurge and get the works.... in 7-9 years, I'll be able to afford it!
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: JRC
Date: 2010-11-18 20:11
I happened to have an oboe that is in part Laubin. I had it for over 50 years. Its top joint cracked very badly in 1966. So badly in fact, Alfred Laubin recommended not fixing it. He had a shop in Queens then. Instead, he made me a replacement top joint and put back the old keys. The wood of the Laubin joint warped within couple of years, about 4mm bend, but no cracks, all the pads maintain tight fit, and played just fine. It still does today. Laubin is perhaps the most expensive and most sought after oboe today. I wonder why...
I recently bought an old Rigoutat classique bore oboe made in 1960, good wood with no cracks, good key works but needed cleaning up, and most importantly good intonation and the fruity tone color I always wanted. So I asked the top repair tech at the most renowned oboe maker to do the complete overhaul. He asked more than twice as much as few well known repair techs around. It was as much as to purchase a decent intermediate level oboe. But what the heck, I thought. It is my dream oboe, and the last oboe to acquire in my life. I wanted the best of the best for once in my life and so, I was willing to dip into my life savings.
I wanted all cork pads, of course. He brushed off my request that leather pads should be good enough for me. It was a diplomatic nightmare to convince the tech to use all cork pads, I did not want him getting all upset. What I received after he was done was a total disappointment. The pads were leaking like crazy all over. But keys looked nice and tight with new silver plating. It was totally unplayable however. I returned it and got back a little better condition but still impossible to play the low notes. He insisted that it was the oboe design at fault. Most importantly, he tried to talk me into accepting it in such condition because his famous boss thought he did a wonderful job on it. I had to send it to a second tech to redo the pads. It turned out the cork pads he used were too grainy and not really good quality product, and the adjustments were not really done right, bumper corks were not in correct thicknesses, screws were not adjusted properly.... all the basic repair stuff not done properly. He forgave about the half the bill because I was not happy with his work not because he did not perform his job properly. Still he costed more than most other techs for the same work. Then I had to pay the second tech to finish the job. What a nightmare!! What a nerve of this man!! What a display of either unprofessionalism or lack of basic knowledge to perform the work, I am not sure which or both!! What a waste of my life savings!!
I have a beautiful Rigoutat Classique now, after all that. Plays like a dream, sounds like a dream, and fits into my hand like a dream. I do not have much conversation with it. We just play music together. Why Laubin? I wonder.
Post Edited (2010-11-18 21:09)
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2010-11-18 23:54
More like something to cry about!
This is one of the reasons I wan to "test drive" some new and used Laubins while I'm fresh on the list. But my own experience with the Laubin gang (on my Lorée) are excellent.
I'm really impressed by Albrecht Mayer's sound. Gebrüder-Mönning has made an oboe (and d'amore and EH) to his special feature requests. You-Tube flicks have him playing different instruments depending on his age, but they all seem to be Mönnings.
My ideal sound, however, remains the baroque oboe; the classical oboe, as played by John Abberger, is really nice too. The Dupin Imperial is supposed to reproduce the bore of the classical instrument, and the Viennese oboe is supposed to do the same.
I absolutely need full Conservatoire keywork, so a real baroque instrument is out. I'm therefore hoping for a Mönning or Dupin in a few years - the Viennese just doesn't have the keywork.
So far, oboe d'amore reeds in my Lorée are promising (no luck adapting EH reeds yet), but the baroque sound is still not there.
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-11-19 00:15
I am also wondering about how a new Laubin would sound. Recently, I compared my French oboe to a German. I used the same reed. They sound very different. The French had a rich, hollow and dark sound. The German on the other hand was bright and sounded very different. It is not that I didnt like the German, it was just different.
I was in the US recently, but I couldnt get my hands on a used Laubin to try it out. I am thinking now, that the Laubin would also sound different. The question will be, is it a sound I will like ? From previous posts, I know that I may have to build new reeds for the Laubin and I probably cant use the reeds made for another oboe !
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2010-11-21 13:53
When you say bright German and Dark French, I am very puzzled because I've always experienced the oposite.... perhaps it's the brands and/or models you have tried.
As for the reeds, well when you're making a reed its for the instrument you will play on. So if it does not suit another instrument, big deal! This makes it difficult to try several instruments, but you can compare rather then measure.
But my old colleagues at McGill who studied with Ted Baskin (Laubin player) had no qualms with playing on a Fox or Lorée or anything else.
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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