 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-04-12 03:21
In a trio I play with--flute, oboe, and bassoon--I am always holding back, rarely playing what I would consider any more than a mezzo-forte. Still, the other members of the trio are concerned with how loud I am. I find my dynamic range shrinking, and I find it hard to play with brio and confidence when I'm never really "playing out."
Of course, I should be working on playing pianissimos with brio and confidence, with as much breath support as the fortes I'd like to be playing, but I'm wondering if there aren't some ways to just shrink my sound across the whole dynamic range.
Some things I'm thinking about--more closed up reeds, easy reeds that require just a whisper of air. Anybody have other reed suggestions for a smaller sound?
Getting a less projecting oboe. My insurance settlement on my stolen Prestini allows me to start shopping for a second instrument. Perhaps a non-grenadilla oboe? (Maybe I can find one in balsa wood?) Are some makes or models known for being less projecting?
I think the goal for many oboists is to project their solo above the orchestra and to fill the concert hall, but I'm trying to be an equal voice with a flute in a small living room. Have others run across this sort of problem?
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2010-04-12 04:07
Hi Mike --
With the reeds you now play, how much release of air do you need to get the tone going? Can you start your sound without tonguing? Can you just sort of "breathe" the sound into existence?
In my experience, I want reeds that allow me to do that. I don't know if I would call them "closed up" or "easy." In fact, I have negative associations with those terms. I think the term I would use for what you are talking about is *responsive*.
Contact me off-board, and I will send you the name of a reedmaker who makes very responsive reeds.
Susan
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-04-12 05:19
I have pretty responsive reeds; I was actually avoiding one of my most responsive reeds today simply because it responded more loudly for a given amount of air. (It was more open than the other reed, which was responsive enough, but which didn't respond so loudly.) I can play pianissimo ok, but I just want to be able to breathe, to blow--I feel like I'm just holding my breath, letting as little air through the instrument as possible, all the time. My timidity of breath then spills over into a timidity of playing...
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-04-12 07:56
Balance in wind ensembles is just plain hard to do. It helps if you have really good, confident partners to play with (since they will be able to match your volume and intensity when needed, and aren't scared to tell you that you are too loud).
Do you play in a very enclosed space? in a more open setting, your sound may not reflect back so much and the balance may sound better.
Maybe it is just me, but I have found that narrower reeds give a more focused and intimate sound. Try a Weber 1B shape, for instance (order 10 pieces of gouged/shaped from a reputable reedmaker).
Also, playing closer to the tip will both warm up the sound and reduce the volume, while still leaving you with the option of punching out sforzando when you need to.
Listening to Dudu Carmel playing chamber music last year I was struck by his fantastic pianissimos, anywhere in the range of the instrument. This skill is really one of the things that separates the pros from the rest of us <sigh>.
J.
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-04-12 11:25
Mike,
I very important posting ................
I have to say it is the reed. Projection and loudness are too different qualities.
Sometimes, in a large orchestra or if you are playing in a dead space, you might need that extra sound to cut through .
From my experience - if the reed projects - you will be heard even if the reed sound is less loud.
At my concert yesterday. I played the Intermezzo Sinfonica from Cacalleria Rusticana. I had an entrance on a High C which needed to be played softly, with a dolce voice, on pitch and project!
I had four good reeds - only one of them met my needs - and I chose it to play the concert -it was somewhat worn - it had a smaller sound - however it had a good core and projection - and was very stable in pitch. It was the strings, the flute and me - pianissimo - it worked well.
Trust your instrument, your reeds, and yourself - and get the cues from the audience and others whether the sound is projecting or not. What we sometimes hear up close is not necessarily what others hear.
Sometimes before a concert - I will record myself - to help choose a reed - in this manner - I get a more objective assessemnt of the reed and sound quality.
Mark
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2010-04-12 13:15
I'm hardly an expert, but I too have found that the narrower the reed, the quieter and more intimate the sound, and the wider the reed, the more projecting it is. Since I play with a Trumpet and a Baritone, I actually prefer the wider, "louder" reeds in order to help me hold my own. :D
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Author: hautbois
Date: 2010-04-12 13:31
Mike --
Here is a stop-gap Measure: mute your instrument. Use some cloth or some non-metal netting, and insert it in the bell. This will make the lowest notes impossible, of course, but helps with the vibrancy of the others. It permits you to 'play out' without the voume.
So often an oboe will sound much louder close to the instrument then at a distance. Have someone listen to your ensemble and determine if, at audience distance, you really are too loud for your colleagues. Also look at the configuration in which you play -- have the oboe play across the stage area rather than directly at the audience. From the auditnce's perspective, place the flute on the left, the bassoon in the middle, and oboe on the right.
In the making of zillions of reeds all the time, for me there were always a few reeds which, probably because of some undetected difference in their fiber or unintended variation in my technique, were more mellow and less projecting. I never had to make one to specifically do that!
A narrower shape, by the way, would make my reeds more focused -- not more gentle -- though perhaps softer because the opening would be smaller. That was never satisfactory for me. However, you could try increasing the overlap and see if that gives you more control over your dynamic, along with more stability in pitch.
Elizabeth
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Author: johnt
Date: 2010-04-12 16:04
Mike,
I second Jeremy's thought on the Weber 1B. You can play pp & fff & pretty much all shades of grey inbetwixt. More narrow & there is great stability up high but the low notes are not as vibrant. My two simoleans, FWIW
Best,
john
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-04-12 16:20
Mike,
Whether you play softly or loudly - you still need the same breath support.
I guess support vs. the manipulation of the air flow/air stream is another discussion topic.
I find playing softly requires more support!
Again the responsiveness and pitch stability of the reed helps us to play softly with adequate breath support.
Mark
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-04-14 01:10
Thanks for all your suggestions. The Weber 1-B advice is interesting--the reeds I was playing on Sunday were the first reeds I made with Weber cane, in the 1-A (even narrower) shape. Which, according to theory, should have made them even quieter. I do like the cane I got from Weber (the Grimaud premium), as it does vibrate better than what I had been using--but, then again, maybe the mushier stuff I had been using would give me smaller-sounding reeds....
(I got the 1-A because I thought, for a first try at Weber cane, I'd start narrow. Because I can always manage to scrape a narrow reed down to pitch, but so far, I've never been able to scrape a wide reed up to pitch. The 1-A is noticeably narrower than the shape I had been using, so I was thinking of moving up to the 1-B on my next order anyway.)
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-05-23 05:08
Well, I'm doing ok with balance; the narrower reeds seem to help, and I pay more scrupulous attention to making sure I have maximum responsiveness in my reeds, so that I can expand my range on the pianissimo end of the spectrum.
We also changed our rehearsal location, and that may have done some good, too.
I've also been asking around about what would be a good "chamber music" instrument, and several people have weighed in. Kingwood rather than violetwood, suggests one dealer; avoid all Lorées and Marigauxs, says another; a third dealer says not to even think about AKs, calling them "reed trumpets." Two dealers have suggested Laubins. I emailed my occasional oboe teacher and found she has rather opposing views, insisting that AKs are excellent chamber music instruments, and saying she gave up her wonderful AK precisely because it didn't have enough projection in the orchestra (she now has two Royals).
I suppose, in the end, that it all depends on the acoustics of the room, reeds, and the player. But if anyone wants to weigh in on the subject of what makes a good "chamber oboe," please do....
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2010-05-23 13:31
I agree that, all things considered, experimenting with your reeds is probably what will yield results for you.
I think the solution is a reed which does not in any way inhibit your "voice." By that I mean a reed which is very, very responsive, but also has a good, dark core sound and just enough resistance so that it will not distort when you give it a little more breath. In other words, a "perfect" reed! ![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
The best small-ensemble oboist that I know -- a veteran of many years in the oboe wars -- plays reeds that most people would think are way too light. I was shocked -- and then amazed, and converted -- when he gave me a couple of his. They were virtually effortless to play, yet they did not suffer from lack of color or intensity. No squawks, no quacks, just a rich, vibrant tone that would be at home in any setting. They are also quite a narrow shape.
He also does not blow very hard (and has counselled me to do the same), but gets an amazing range and richness of sound nonetheless. He could (and did) play in a symphony on these reeds, as well as in a jazz combo.
All I want is equipment that doesn't get in the way of what I want to do, or require me to compromise musicality in order to get the hardware to work. A well-made, very light reed takes me a long way in that direction.
Susan
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-05-23 15:18
Yes, it certainly is a shame that Craig left this board - I'm sure his advice would have been sterling...
Mike, it sounds like you are finding the right balance with your Marigaux. If you were to find a "chamber" instrument it would double the number of variables you are currently juggling. Are you up for that?
However, since you are playing a Marigaux anyway, perhaps you should look out for a Strasser like mine. It is the "student" model Marigaux, and the early (1976-77) models were full conservatory, including split-E and LH F. Later models have simplified keywork.
My Strasser has a lighter, sweeter tone than the Loree, and is also a few cents sharper in pitch (it is perfectly in tune with itself, just tuned to 442-443 instead of the standard 440). This gives you a bit more freedom in taming strident reeds, since you can take off more cane and still play in tune.
I saw one of the full conservatory models on the bartering-site-that-must-not-be-named a few years back and considered buying it myself (it was one of a batch of three. The other two were rubbish).
J.
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-05-23 16:30
Well, I have to buy a second oboe anyway to get the full replacement value on my lost Prestini from the insurance company, so I thought it might be something I'd really want to play for some reason or another, rather than something that just sits in the closet.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2010-05-23 17:35
Mike,
How did that Laubin turn out for you?
It seems to me like from everything you're describing (an instrument that blends better in chamber music, less projecting, etc) for my setup, you describe some kind of Laubin. (Laubin players, no need to roast me. I'm just talking about MY setup.)
I'd particularly be looking for a sleeve or some kind of plastic topjoint so that you can leave it for a year, then pick it up and play it hard without worrying about breaking it in or cracking.
Cooper
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-05-23 19:33
I'm out of town for much of the week, so I've scheduled the Laubin trials for after.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: hautbois
Date: 2010-05-24 16:13
Mike -- I had two (sometimes 3) oboes for many years, using my Loree or Laubin as a back-up for my Marigaux, but never using them instead of my Marigaux for any context. Eventually I found it much easier to own two of the same brand of instrument, as the intonation and finger placement varied enough for me to be less secure when playing the lesser-used instrument and there is little room for error in a professional context; so I purchased a second Marigaux. Never did I have any difficulty in a chamber music context on the Marigaux, and I never felt that my Laubin or my Loree were deficient in the least in being full and loud enough for orchestral contexts. I played consistently in both types of situations. I suggest you look for a used Marigaux to purchase with the insurance money from your stolen Prestini, and try the 2001 model as well as your 901. Marigaux's sound can be easier to blend with, and can make some aspects of chamber music easier.
Elizabeth
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-05-24 21:01
Thanks for your advice, Elizabeth. The finger-switching factor did worry me somewhat--I sometimes have trouble adjusting between the Marigaux oboe and Lorée English horn with the left pinky. Which maybe is more of a reason to get a Lorée oboe?
The great thing about all this varying advice is that, no matter what I decide, I can always say that somebody said it was a good idea. ;-)
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-05-29 21:43
Well, I'm not buying either of these two Laubins, unless, someday between now and whenever I send them back to their respective owners, I have some sort of revelation about their hitherto unappreciated qualities. I can see where somebody might think of them as having a more constrained sound, suitable for chamber music, but they don't sing like my Marigaux. No matter which reed I try, it always sound better on the Marigaux. Somebody on these boards once described the Laubin sound like a Lorée with a head cold, and while that's a little harsh, I can see what they were thinking. The intonation on one of them, with the narrower, more constrained sound, is a little more consistent than on my Marigaux; the other is a little less constrained in sound, but has pretty wild intonation. Elizabeth's suggestion is starting to make more sense--I think perhaps my Marigaux has made me into a Marigaux person, and I just need to constrain the size of my sound via reeds and technique.....
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
Post Edited (2010-05-29 21:46)
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2010-05-30 17:31
Mike,
I find your statement "They don't sing like my Marigaux..." interesting. I think when we were thinking of an instrument which produced a "smaller sound" for your chamber music, we were thinking of an instrument which limited your ability to "sing out" so that you could blend more. So you're looking for a smaller "singing" sound?
I think you're coming up against the same struggle which all musicians deal with: discipline. When to sing out, and when to hold it in even though you want to sing out.
In either case, you're going to either have to work to have "a smaller sound" and blend in, or you're going to have to work to "sing out" and push through the "ether". (David Weber calls this "cushion in the sound". Not sure any oboe can help you do both, but good luck on your trials (see the list of oboes I've gone through to find this right balance on the "oversoaking reeds" thread). The best I've come up with finding an oboe that I can make reeds for easier to accomplish one or the other, and then practicing the heck out my instrument to achieve the other.
Good luck on your search. Let me know when you find it.
Cooper
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
Post Edited (2010-05-30 17:32)
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2010-05-30 18:08
"The best I've come up with finding an oboe that I can make reeds for easier to accomplish one or the other, and then practicing the heck out my instrument to achieve the other."
That is i think the ultimate truth. There is no perfect instrument. There is no perfect reed. Play on an oboe that is as in tune as possible with as little adjustments as possible and on reeds that are as easy as possible and in tune (whatever that means!). And then it all boils down to practising to make it all happen.
Regards,
Howard
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2010-05-30 22:50
Cooper, your advice is bang on the nail - excellent remark.
When I was conducting, I was impressed by how brass players understood the difference between a "forte character" and "playing very loudly"..... well, the good brass players anyway.
Never underestimate the power on the audience - and your fellow players - of your belief and your honest love for the music. This really does transpire regardless of the dynamic range you think you are giving. I think playing softly with as much character as you can give and the enjoyment of performing should help. Remember to play with the others, not in response to them - if this makes any sense.
Another consideration: I speak loudly because I don't hear my spoken voice very well. When playing, I don't have this problem, but I have noticed that any degree of insecurity or doubt will make me play louder. Also, jazz players have the notion of "ghosting": sometimes playing too softly will actually make you stand out.... just a though.
Best of luck!
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-05-30 23:34
Mike,
As another Marigaux player - trust your instrument's ability to project. You do not need a very vibrant reed to achieve projection or have to play loudly. Play on a softer reed - older reed - My experience tells me you will play and project well and blend nicely.
Mark
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-05-31 03:28
Well, my trio-mates liked the sound of the better Laubin, and said it sounded "more professional" than the Marigaux, and said the scale was more even. Although, after playing the Laubin and my Marigaux back and forth, repeatedly, pretty soon they got confused which was which. They did notice, independently of each other and at different times, that I sounded more comfortable on the Marigaux. But maybe that's just because I've been playing on it for four years....I will continue to work with this Laubin and see whether my initial judgement was too hasty.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-05-31 03:44
Well, Cooper, I just haven't played enough different oboes to know what was possible, so the idea of a "smaller singing sound" seemed like something that might be possible. I don't think of a singing quality as having much to do with volume, but it might have something to do with how penetrating the sound is. Sound is indeed very multi-dimensional and hard to express in words.
I tried to figure out today just what I was trying to express about relative sounds of the Marigaux and Laubins; I think some of it has to do with what I call "fuzziness," to which I seem especially sensitive. I think for a long time I tended to make reeds too bright just to avoid the fuzziness, and lost focus. I'm getting used to having some fuzziness in the sound, and people tell me my sound is more focused, but I still hear more fuzziness than focus. The fuzziness may, in fact, be relatively inaudible to anyone more than a few feet away; I recorded the Marigaux and Laubins from across the room to try to get around this bias. But the recording technology (built-in mics on a Tascam DR-07) may have added it's own bias. Maybe I'll try again with the Sony mic....
I came away from the recordings yesterday thinking the Laubin had a more "nasal" quality; but my flutist friend today said that she thought the Laubin was "darker." WTF.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2010-05-31 04:01
Mike, in my limited experience, ease always translates to warmth, although what we actually hear ourselves might beg to differ.
Howard
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-05-31 05:17
Interesting that you mention warmth, as just now (since my last posting) I have tried the Marigaux and Laubin again, (while trying different things with reeds) and "warmth" seemed to be something the Marigaux had more of. It was pretty much independent of "ease," so I'm not exactly illustrating your point, but I am searching for words to talk about the difference in the sounds and "warmth" is a good one.
I also remember now what my teacher wrote about her experience with Laubins: something of a brittle or tinny quality to the sound. I think tinny doesn't describe it well, but "brittle" does get at what I'm hearing that I don't completely like.
I think this Laubin really is a wonderful instrument--very consistent sound throughout the scale and better relative intonation than my Marigaux. With some adjustment in reeds I'm not getting the fuzziness I was worried about in a previous posting. But I'm still not in love with the thing.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2010-05-31 05:53
It is also my experience that the Marigaux is on the "less edgy?" side of the tonal spectrum compared to many other makes, but i have never played a Laubin before, coming from Asia where that brand remains much of a mystery...If the Laubin is in any way closer to a Loree in tonal concept and sound production, then it will be a fact that it tends to hide less "undesirable vibrations" in the reed...again, this is very subjective, but that's my observation....
Howard
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2010-05-31 06:20
Hi Mike,
Interesting about your trio. I personally believe that whether it's the oboe or the reed, you're going to sound the way you want. The difference is going to be what equipment is going to make it all easier, and since the reed goes hand in hand with the oboe, it takes familiarity with both to be able to produce what you want at a maximum level of efficiency.
I agree that singing is certainly more about color, vibrato, and projection than volume. If you took "smaller" meaning volume, then I misspoke, because that wasn't what I was trying to point at. Core of sound can be part of the singing quality, as it what I would describe the opposite of core: dispersion. Anyways, I know we're getting REALLY into subjective terminology, so I'll leave it at that.
Regarding the "fuzziness" term you describe, I believe I can definitely relate to your dislike of this quality, as I too strive for a very focused sound, and I often find myself blowing harder in order to get more focus and core in the sound while playing a Laubin. This blowing soon becomes overblowing as my reeds are on the lighter side, and the sound distorts, and everything goes downhill from there. Perhaps if I played on reeds with thicker tips, and heavier overall, Laubins would suit me more, but since I play on smaller reeds, I need an instrument that magnifies the sound like a Loree, not an instrument that dampens unwanted vibrations which I feel a Laubin does (in order to get that "darker, creamier tone".)
Regarding your "brittle/tinny sound" description, I've heard Laubin players who have beautiful full round tone, but they have almost always played heavier thicker reeds than myself, The description you give above is what happens when I overblow my smaller lighter reeds, so perhaps you experience something similar to what I do.
Cooper
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
Post Edited (2010-05-31 06:23)
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-05-31 06:36
Interesting thoughts, Cooper. One thing I thought about this evening is that my reeds are changing to become more like my teacher's; if she is a hard-core Lorée-o-phile, I may in fact be learning to make reeds that don't work so well on Laubins.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-05-31 13:09
Mike,
Remember that what we sometimes hear up close to our ears - is not what the audience hears.
I still feel the issue is in the reed. Have you tried a different supplier of cane?
Again I point out as did others - projection and loudness are two different attributes of playing.
As for Laubins - I have found the scale to be very good; however, the sound to be contained and less flexible. From a mechanical point of view its makes the instrument somewhat easier to play; form a musical point of view I found it to have less color.
Mark
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-08-08 17:26
I was asked by jhoyla in another thread to report on "the Lorée," the oboe which has recently shown up in my signature, and I thought I'd do it here, where my Laubin trials were detailed.
Upon the recommendation of Cooper, I sought out a certain AK bore c+3 of the NY series, and got two other Q* series Lorées on trial as a comparison. The NY was clearly superior in the opinion of myself and my teacher, who said it was about as good an AK c+3 as could be had. I was initially a bit disappointed--"this was as good as they get?"--when played side-by-side with my Marigaux. My quartet-mates unanimously favored the sound of the Marigaux in side-by-side blind tests--playing some middle-of-the-staff music. My teacher favored the Lorée when I played a the first bit Ferling etude on it and my Marigaux. It was etude #3; a lot of high C's. And that is where the Lorée really shines--a more covered sound, and better intonation on the second-octave-key notes.
My teacher tried not to push the Lorée too hard, saying that it might be better to stick to something I was more used to making reeds for, etc. Upon her suggestion, I got a mid-90's Marigaux 901 on trial, but it wasn't up to the level of my Marigaux or the Lorée. This was helpful in pointing out to me that the difference in the sounds of my Marigaux and the Lorée weren't all differences in make, but differences , but differences in the individual instruments. I decided that the Lorée was a good instrument, a worthy companion to my Marigaux, with just a bit of a different style of timbre, neither better nor worse. And, as I play it, I am starting to appreciate that timbre for what it is. It seems to me more "French." It requires a slightly more disciplined approach in making reeds, but becoming more adaptable in my reed-making approach is hardly a bad thing. It's probably not the oboe I will be clutching in my final moments, but it's a good learning experience and a wonderful oboe that I won't have trouble selling if I find something I like better. And now I can collect the rest of my insurance money!
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2010-08-09 00:13
I am VERY curious as to what you mean by Lorées needing a more disciplined approach to reed making.
I have never played a Marigaux, although my teacher did (whose reed methods are the basis of mnie). I have played on a dozen Lorées, a few Selmers and a few Yamaha Customs.
My own Lorée has been revoiced by David Teitelbaum (extraordinary work!) which has significantly improved both the general tuning and the stability of the infamous Lorée notes (middle E-nat, F# and G) which just don't seem to want to keep any degree of focus.
It looks like he re-bored the bell as is described in David Weber's website. I still sounds like a Lorée and I don't know if you would consider its sound to have grown or not. I'm guessing that those bells Weber sells might really be worth it on many Lorées.
At any rate, I'd really like to know to what you have to pay special attention in reed-making for the Lorée in comparison to the Marigaux.
Thanks
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-08-09 03:54
Well, pitch, for one thing. The Marigaux tends to be sharp in the upper range, while the Lorée tends to be a bit flat. I always think it takes more discipline to make a reed sharper than to make it flatter....
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: johnt
Date: 2010-08-09 05:56
You bet your sweet bippy those bells David Weber & Fred Capps make are worth it. I bought the first one they sold at the recent IDRS conference in Norman, OK. My Loree is a new instrument. My testimonial is on David's website.
Best,
john
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-08-09 13:53
Mike, congratulations!
This has been a long time in coming, and I am glad that you have a fitting replacement instrument.
Thanks for the careful descriptions throughout your trials - a lesson for us all in how to carefully and methodically choose an instrument, and in how individual instruments can vary.
J.
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-08-09 15:41
Robin,
I am an ex-Loree player and a recent Marigaux 901 player.
The reeds for the Loree needed to be very exact to get the Timbre/tone quality I wanted. It seemed with the Loree the instrument was very reed dependent.
My Marigaux on the other hand - is not as reed dependent to produce a very beautiful and professional tone. Thus, the reeds are easier to make - the sound in my Marigaux is "Built In". It radiates from the lower joint and bell. All I need is for my reeds to be responsive in all the required attributes.
The Loree reed required the classic and very carefully defined tip, heart and windows. My Marigaux reed have a very defined tip/blend heart - however, beyond that - the rest is relatively easy - basically two channels - with slightly more removed from the back channels. The heart is much less defined in comparison to the rest of the reed.
As I said - if the reed is responsive - the beautiful sound is there.
Mark
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-08-09 17:09
One thing that made my search particularly hard--and at the same time, easy-- was that I was buying a second oboe. I love my Marigaux, and it's not just a Marigaux--it's a very good Marigaux! I went into the purchasing process wondering if I could find something better--not determined to find something better. I didn't feel really limited by my instrument--the "smaller sound" thing was just an idea I had of what might be something to look for in a second instrument.
Of the 10 instruments I tried, none of them pushed my Marigaux into the category of my "spare" oboe. If I hadn't recovered the Marigaux from the theft, I probably wouldn't have had such a hard time buying an oboe, because, on their own, a lot of the oboes were pretty darn good. It is only when I do the side-by-side comparison with my old Marigaux that I become a bit disappointed--not quite as smooth (the other Marigaux, some of the Lorées), not quite as round (the NY Lorée), not quite as warm (the better Laubin). The easy part was that I knew I always had my Marigaux, and it was plenty good enough, so there wasn't a lot of pressure to find something to play.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2010-08-10 09:59
New or old makes no difference. When I bought my Lorée, I didn't have enough skill to know, but after a few years I did. Its trouble with G, F# and E have been consistent - getting neither better nor worse - over the years. I call those notes "the infamous Lorée notes" because every Lorée payer I have (and some were flipping good!) has always complained about them and used special fingerings to compensate.
It's only when I got my 1921 Pan-American marching-band model off e-bay, in horrible but saveable condition, that I was amazed to find out this was not true of all makes.
David Teitelbaum re-bored only the bell. The G is still iffy, but stable reeds fix the problem completely (no special figerings or blowing) -- this had never been possible before. Because my Loree and I have been together for 25 years (the only oboe I've ever owned, though I played on many), I won't "complement" it with any other part, but it still testifies to the power of the bell!
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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The Clarinet Pages
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