 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2010-03-29 18:16
Hello EH players --
Do any of you have any tips for making the fingering of low Db - low C - low Db
more reliable? I might add that this sequence of notes is proceeded and followed by an Eb, as well.
I have to slide it. My fingers aren't long enough to do the thing I do on the oboe (i.e., C with the lower part of the little finger, Db with the upper part).
I get it about 75% of the time, but that is not good enough for the exposed opening passage in Hindemith "March from Symphonic Metamorphosis" that I am trying to learn.
Susan
Post Edited (2010-03-29 18:28)
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2010-03-29 21:09
An old flute player trick for sliding between low notes is to rub the side of your pinky against the side of your nose. Your nose there is generally a bit greasy, and this grease will aid in making your pinky slide more smoothly.
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Author: Wufus
Date: 2010-03-29 21:49
That's funny Susan, I just performed the Matemorphosis last night and really had a hard time with that passage. For some reason the d-flat to c wasn't as hard as getting that e-flat in afterwords. And unfortunately it is just the EH and bass clarinet on that passage. The side of the nose thing does help, but it is just an awkward passage. I glad to hear it wasn't just me. But what a great piece to play!
Wufus
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-03-29 22:46
Has your cor got a banana key (for RH3) fitted? If it has, you can use that for the C which frees up your RH pinky for the Db, and then use the LH Eb key for the Eb.
Otherwise use the nose grease trick for sliding onto the Db.
Shame ALL oboes, d'amores and cors don't come with the LH C# key fitted as standard.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Bryanwalker
Date: 2010-03-30 01:10
Someone needs to make oboes and EH's with rollers on the right hand pinky keys. That would make playing easier.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2010-03-30 02:01
Thanks, all, for your suggestions and sympathy (empathy?).
Chris, I do have the banana key, but reaching it is worse than trying to slide off and on the Db/C/Db. I can't reach the banana and keep the D covered at the same time.
I don't have any problem with the Eb. It's just that my fingers are not used to doing the slide. I'm finding that if I use the very tip of my little finger on the very edge of the Db, I can do it most of the time -- I just want it to be very secure, since that passage is essentially solo.
Susan
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Author: oboeobo
Date: 2010-03-30 04:51
Maybe plug the low D key with a wine cork? This would facilitate (sp?) that passage, and as long as you have time, you can quickly remove the cork for the remainder of the peice!
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Author: hautbois
Date: 2010-03-30 13:36
Susan -- You could try an adjustible thumb rest, if you do not already have one, which would alter the right hand finger location and grip slightly, and could possibly give you a small amount of additional coverage on the D flat key. Also, placing some cork or other material on the wood of the instrument (such as a Dutch thumb rest) where the thumb sits on the wood might cause a repositioning of your grip slightly to your benefit here. If all else fails, you can take the instrument to a repairman and have the keys slightly bent to accommodate your hands.
As my age advanced, my small hands provided less stretch between the fingers, and I began to have difficulty securely covering the low D on my Loree oboe d'amore. I switched to a Marigaux d'amore which had a more agreeable configuration for me. Different manucturer's insruments vary.
Elizabeth
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-03-30 13:55
If you don't need to use the D#-E trill (split fingerplate for RH3), definitely have the hole in the RH3 fingerplate filled in (a cork pad slightly larger in diameter than the hole will do the trick) so long as your low E doesn't suffer. That will give you more security in knowing you won't uncover the RH3 fingerplate by accident when rolling/sliding your RH pinkie across for the C#, and also have the banana key bent inwards (towards the RH3 fingerplate) and maybe bent up slightly higher so it sits level with the front edge of the RH3 fingerplate when in use to make it much easier to reach.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: oboedrew
Date: 2010-03-30 21:23
Hi, Susan. I second Jaysne's greasing recommendation. But I rub my pinky behind the ear, not beside the nose. We don't want our audiences wondering why we pick our noses just before solos, and it really does look that way from a few rows out! Behind the ear is discreet.
Cheers,
Drew
www.oboedrew.com
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Author: jeremyreeds
Date: 2010-03-31 03:03
Chris P wrote:
>
> Shame ALL oboes, d'amores and cors don't come with the LH C#
> key fitted as standard.
>
That is a solution but I think that the real shame is that the PRESTINI system was never adopted as the standard, it solves all those problems.
The Prestini system has been around for a long time. I picked up an English Horn (Cor Anglais) in Egipt, an antique, I calculate it must be late 1800's / very early 1900's , pre- conservatory system ( must be Triebert's System 4, I guess -I do not want to go get my book-) Bb4/5 and C5/6 are side keys played with RH1 - The low B3 is played with LH thumb; LH pinky can play C#,Eb, and F (this is a second F) , and RH pinky is the regular arrangement C, C#, Eb. By the way, it is an Italian instrument. This system (Prestini) is not very popular but it is still found in modern instruments. I play a Marigaux Conservatory / Prestini System oboe.
At least oboes , English Horns and d'amores should come fitted with the LH C#, as you mention. I have never met anybody that is able to use properly - without difficulties - the Banana key. What an useless key!
I have an old Cabart oboe (with which you can play C5/D#5 trill) which has instead of the Banana key a double low C to be played with the RH thumb; good idea but as useless as the banana.
I agree, at least a LH C# would be useful - less costly than Prestini- but with the Prestini you can also slare (legatto) LowB to Eb, even Low Bb to Eb; these may be something like the trill I mentioned above (C5/D#6), do we really need it? but having alternates for Eb's (D#'s) and C#'s is very practical.
Regards
Jeremias Gramcko
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-03-31 09:18
I agree with Chris that the positioning of most Banana keys is truly dreadful, on nearly all pro instruments. I suspect the key was designed before the split-E, and nobody thought to redesign it. As Susan says, sealing the E tone-hole with RH ring-finger and fully pressing the banana key requires dexterity beyond normal human capabilities.
Has anyone thought to add an offset RH thumb-key C instead? Since the LH is always fully covering whenever you need these notes it can temporarily support the instrument, allowing RH thumb to press an offset touch. LH pinkie already has 5 keys to contend with.
Chris's suggestion to have your banana key raised and moved closer is excellent - the only way to go with current instruments.
J.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2010-03-31 15:08
Yeah, it is kind of a mystery to me why an effective alternate low C or C# option has not yet been devised for the oboe. It's not like that is a particularly *outre* tonal sequence, or anything. Clarinets have had l/r alternates for these tones standard for years and years and years. And as Chris suggests, just doing something minor to modify the banana key -- like, putting a little spatula on it -- so that it would be possible to reach seems like a no-brainer.
But, until that comes along, here's what I have devised to deal with the passage in question (sixth bar after the EH entrance in "Symphonic Metamorphosis"):
1.First of all, I do better on this with a more open reed. Check your wire before beginning!
2. It is important to get the preceeding Eb very solidly. One thing that helps is to treat that Eb (eighth note on last half of last beat of bar 5) as a pickup to the next bar, rather than as a conclusion to the bar it is in. Give it a little separation. Even take a little breath. This is also musically more coherent, I think.
3. Hover your greasy little r.h. pinky above the Db while you are doing #2.
I am finding that placing the outer tip of the finger on the edge of the Db key allows me to toggle back and forth to the C relatively easily -- especially if my brain is also engaged.
4. Rehearse bar 6 in straight (not just dotted) time. If you can do it in straight eighths, it seems much easier when you only have to do it in dotted eighths. I'm also finding that, past a point, it is actually easier to do this passage at full tilt (m.m. = half note at 80) rather than more slowly. Something about the energy of the passage itself carries it along.
Other instruments have joined in at that point, so a little flub is not as noticeable as I was afraid it would be.
Thanks for all the insightful comments. Chris P., why don't you start manufacturing a fix for this! Maybe just a retro-fitted jacket for the banana key. You could become rich!
Susan
Post Edited (2010-03-31 15:10)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-03-31 20:21
I'd certainly make the LH C# standard and do away with the banana key if I were ever to make my own oboes.
But if you do have the money and are willing to part with your oboe for a few weeks, a LH C# key will be a worthwhile keywork alteration.
The LH C# key is a pretty chunky piece of keywork as is has to have room beneath it for the LH F and D#-E linkage, plus the pillars. And if there's enough room between the RH C-D trill key barrel and the feather (LH pinky cluster) barrel, then it can run in this gap. Most oboes don't have a lot of room there, so other ways of mounting it have to be found (usually further down the joint). And it's a long lever so it may also need a guide (as on clarinet trills) to keep it well aligned.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2010-04-01 04:28
I myself have never had an issue with the Banana key, but I learned to slide well. A little nose (or ear) grease on your finger AND the key make it easily possible. I rarely use my Left Eb because of the ability to slide.
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-04-01 08:46
Chris, hi,
The RH Thumb touch C I was thinking of would have a barrel that runs more-or-less on the line of the lateral LH F post, hops the feather barrel and comes up under the back of the D tone-hole rocker (the pad that descends when playing C). Much simpler and cleaner mechanism. A short touch, operable by pushing or rotating your distal thumb joint.
Not ideal for the C# trill, but much more ergonomic than the banana key.
J.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-04-01 22:25
There was an old Cabart on the famous auction site that had this extra C touch for the RH thumb - it was the same shape as the back 8ve key. I think it may have been mentioned either on here or over on SOTW.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-04-02 15:05
Thanks guys, it was too simple an idea for it not to have been tried in the past. I'm just confused why it never took off.
And Chris .. er, SOTW?
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Author: jeremyreeds
Date: 2010-04-03 03:05
I have an old Cabart which has that key for the RH thumb to play low C (which looks like an upside down 1st. octave key, and replaces the Banana key). In the form in which it has been installed (pretty far from the thumb rest) is of not much use, unless one supports the oboe with the knees or legs. I have tried it, at first I thought it was a wonderful idea but after playing this oboe, I realized that one can actually lift, without much consecuence, the LH thumb but lifting the RH thumb, while fingering a note that requires any of the fingers of the RH, is not without probable consecuences.
After reading the description given by Robert Hubbart about his first oboe in High School, and looking at the pictures of the unusual keywork for a customer of John Peterson, who required special keywork, from the links given by Gerry L , I am now of the opinion that it would work if such key was placed near (close to) the thumb rest. On the other hand, one should consider the work (cost) involved for such a key, because it might be that a better choice would, perhaps, be the long LH C#.
Regards.
Jeremias
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Author: oboereed1109
Date: 2010-04-09 15:54
Playing the low C with the joint nearest the tip of the little finger, then playing the C#,D flat with the tip of the finger works for me. Then, of course, using the left hand E flat.
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