 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: jrestes
Date: 2009-04-12 00:30
You know, alot has been said on this forum about various reed styles and how to scrape this and that, and I thought why not take it to the next level. A series of postings of pictures of your reeds, your teachers reeds, etc. might make for some good discussion. I hope this really takes off!
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Author: Alphons
Date: 2009-04-12 06:34
Is there a reason why my added pictures are deleted by a mod?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-04-12 13:27
They're not being deleted by the moderators. Are your pictures a reasonable size (800x600, not > 1 Mb?)
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Author: oboemoboe
Date: 2009-04-12 19:04
Alphons,
Interresting shape and scrape! It seems very "square" to me. Is that the standard "dutch" scrape? I know I love the sound (I heard some really nice oboe playing when I was in the Netherlands), but I had never seen the reeds!
Thanks for sharing!
O
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Author: Alphons
Date: 2009-04-12 19:21
Yes I love my reeds with a Rubens taille,this scrape used to be fairly common but with the unisonosound that is very widely used in Europe this scrape is loosing ground sad enough.
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2009-04-12 19:45
Love seeing the D12 staples Alphons...i use them too. I am still waiting for your reed to arrive. And i am quite shocked by the length of the scrape!!! Can't wait to play on one to see what it feels and sounds like.
Howard
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Author: Alphons
Date: 2009-04-12 20:00
You should receive it somewhere next week,but it is already on its way for over a week.
I just hope they didnt send it by ship.
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2009-04-15 14:01
Thanks! But, of course, just because they look good doesn't mean they play well or sound good....
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2009-04-15 18:52
I know that, it just shows the care you put into making them. I like my reeds to look pretty too, but I've had some beauties that are very ratty-looking.
GoodWinds
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2009-04-15 23:11
love this thread idea, pix worth 1000 words :-)
hi Alphons
... interesting style that 'rubens taille' and the long blend
do you want to share measurements?
from the pix it seems the very thin sides may be longer than 5mm
guesstimate about 7mm long?
do you shorten or lengthen the sides to adjust the relative resistance of the tip?
what's the length of your finished reeds?
how thick is your cane to start with?
pros & cons of this style?
mschmidt
beautiful work :-)
<<just because they look good doesn't mean they play well or sound good>>
well, do they? in spite of <<quote>> ?
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2009-04-16 01:12
They're not too bad....
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: Alphons
Date: 2009-04-16 06:20
Hello Vboboe
The gouging thickness is about 0.68 mm.
The total reed lenght is 66 mm,width 7.2 mm,the length above the nylon thread is 24.5 mm,the staples I use are D12 Quercio of 42 mm.
The scrapelength is 14.5 mm the thin sides are about 5.5 mm and acros the tip there is a small stroke of 1mm very thin.
If the reeds balance is oké it should crow as you put very little air in it and the crow should increase with increasing air input.
A good reed should also crow a c2.
From my point of vieuw the greatest assets of these kind of reeds is the enormous flexibility it gives you as player.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2009-04-16 07:30
Alphonse, Is the wire an essential part of the reed? Do they work without the wire?
Also, this is the first time I have ever heard of such a short staple! Your scrape length is the same as for an american scrape (would correspond to a 71mm reed total length on a 47mm staple).
When you say the crow should increase with increasing air, do you mean pitch? In other words the pitch rises and falls with air alone?
Truly fascinating. Thanks for posting the pictures!
Mike - your reeds look just perfect. And, BTW, looks DO count when evaluating a reed.
Kerry Willingham (reedmaker.com) has a couple of videos online in which he makes a reed from start to finish without blowing it once, based only upon the way the reed looks! He then puts it into his instrument and plays it - responsive, in tune and easy-blowing.
J.
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Author: Alphons
Date: 2009-04-16 10:25
Hello Jake
Yes the wire is an important part as it more or less controls the aperture and holds it in the desired position.(without choking it of course.)
The pitch should very only in volume and not in pitch.
The lenght of the staple can be this short because it has larger internal dimensions than for example the 47mm staples,stick a mandrel in them and you see the difference.
I personally prefer the short staple because of its flexibility in both pitch and tone colours.
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2009-04-22 16:17
cooper we'd all love to see your reeds, knowing how excellent they are...
GoodWinds
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-05-02 17:22
Mike,
After I saw the first reed - I was going to suggest exactly what you showed on the newer scrape!
Looks like Marigaux reed to me.................
Mark
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Author: hautbois
Date: 2010-05-02 18:02
Mike -- Consider retaining a little more thickness in the center of the tip, extending from the spine. It worked well on my Marigaux, enhancing stability and limiting any tendency to have any buzziness or whistle in the sound. Even the center of the tip of the tip can have a very slight degree of thickness, tapering to the sides. Perhaps you have this, but a single photo does not show it.
Elizabeth
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-05-02 18:14
Elizabeth,
I agree 100% ............................... My reeds have a more visible spine and I also taper the tip in the fashion you mentioned. My reeds have very defined channels too.
Mark
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-05-02 19:10
I do try to keep the center of the tip thicker, although it's something I constantly struggle with. But that photo couldn't show you anything of the tip--it was all just white. I've replaced the photo with a differently lit one, taken when the reed was dry. Dry cane scatters light more, accentuating differences in thickness.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-05-02 19:37
So what will a better-defined spine get me?
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-05-02 22:31
Mike,
Your new reed picture looks pretty much like my reeds ..........................
Mark
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Author: hautbois
Date: 2010-05-03 14:44
In addition to the two things I mentioned in an earlier post (avoid whistle/buzz; have more stability), a spine which continues into the tip (not as a defined septum, but as a U shaped area (the tip of the tip is the bottom of the U) of thickness tapering to the sides and towards the tip) will help keep the reed from closing down prematurely. The timbre will be less 'bright' as well.
Elizabeth
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-05-03 17:40
Elizabeth,
Thanks for the explanation ....... How do you think your Marigaux reeds differ from a Loree reed?
I find I need less in the heart of the reed and less out of the back so the difference from the heart and back is less defined. My Marigaux reed has channels which are more visible with a tapering of more wood out of the back channels.
What are the experiences of other Marigaux players?
Mark
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Author: Alphons
Date: 2010-05-04 07:52
The strange thing is that no matter what brand of oboe you use as oboeplayer you will always end with the same kind of sound that is predestined in your fysic and cultural heritage.
The only thing that in my opinion will differ is the amount of resistance and the stability needed by different brands.
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-05-04 11:32
Alphons,
If you read the thread "Marigaux, Rigoutat, Covey, etc..." you will see that this is not always the case.
When I switched to a Marigaux, as did a fellow student and when my teacher also switched to a Marigaux - there was a definite difference in the conception of tone color and fluidity which resulted in a different tonal quality.
The Marigaux sound, for all of us, was very consistent throughout. This is unlike other Oboes we tried where reeds had a much greater impact on tone and style of playing.
Mark
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Author: oboedrew
Date: 2010-05-04 18:57
Alphons wrote:
> The strange thing is that no matter what brand of
> oboe you use as oboeplayer you will always end with
> the same kind of sound that is predestined in your
> fysic and cultural heritage. The only thing that in my
> opinion will differ is the amount of resistance and the
> stability needed by different brands.
Alphons, that's been my experience too. I've played several types of oboes over the years, but when I go back and listen to the recordings, I always just sound like myself. I have a definite idea of MY sound and have always made the necessary adjustments (mostly instinctively, sometimes intentionally) to get it.
When we play different oboes, sometimes we think we're HEARING differences when actually we're FEELING differences. Other times we think we hear differences because we EXPECT to hear them, perhaps because we've been told by teachers or famous players that we WILL hear them. Here in the US, legions of Loree players assert that "Yamaha oboes lack character." It's nonsense, of course. But you can't expect rich and colorful sounds from a company that makes motorcycles too, right? Behold, bias is born! Blind sound tests are the only way we can know for sure what we think of this or that oboe.
And I'm not convinced there's such a thing as a "Loree reed" or a "Marigaux reed." It's all subjective. In Mark's case, a Marigaux reed is whatever sort of reed gives him the sound he wants on his Marigaux. But Mark's Marigaux reed might be my Howarth reed, and my Marigaux reed might be Mark's Loree reed.
Anyway, of the factors contributing to tone, I find the player most important, the reed a close second, and the instrument a distant third.
Cheers,
Drew
www.oboedrew.com
Post Edited (2010-05-04 20:29)
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2010-05-05 22:17
Drew,
I agree that the stylistic qualities remain the same ...........
However, "ad nauseam" , I must protest.
The sound of the Marigaux was distinctly different - this is no just my subjective experience - but those of my colleagues.
My teacher always sounds wonderful - but his Marigaux sound is not the same of his Loree sound.
He too asked his colleagues for their feedback and they all said the sound was different.
As for as I am concerned - assuming all else in in place -a competent player and a good reed - the Oboe comes first! Too much time is wasted trying to compensate for poor instruments - regardless of the make of the instrument. A Loree does not sound like a Marigaux or a Buffet Greenline or a Laubin etc.
However, a good player will make each of them sing like a bird.
Mark
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2010-05-09 14:29
With a nudge back to topic I thought I would post.
As I think from the rules of the forum I am not allowed to say where I bought these from, I post mainly to satisfy my curiosity of how I might best actually photograph a reed.
I am a newcomer to double reeds, and find it fascinating the level of forensic description possible for a reed, and the deductions of how these descriptors translate into sound.
Chris
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2010-05-09 15:09
Chris J wrote:
> As I think from the rules of the forum I am not allowed to say
> where I bought these from,
No, the rules are to prevent direct buying & selling; once you've bought something there's nothing preventing you from discussing where and how you acquired it. People mention stores and brands all the time on the BBoard.
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2010-05-09 16:58
They look beautifuk Chris, any idea what staples those are?
Regards,
Howard
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-05-09 18:32
The reeds are standard wired UK short-scrape, just like those I used to play in my youth. They do look nice!
The staple on the left is a Chudnow E47, the one on the right is .. er ... I have no idea. Judging by the relative lengths of the tie, it could even be a 46mm staple.
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2010-05-10 00:08
Marjorie just describes the standard staples as:
"(DM cork staple 47mm) U scrape"
I think the apparent shortness is because of my photography angle rather than a shorter staple
Chris
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