 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-04-21 14:53
Well, I finally bought myself a Riec last month - direct from Rigoutat. There were two other places I tried, but one never replied to my emails, and the other was selling it without a case.
First impressions? It plays like a dream. So well in fact that I'm starting to realise that my old plastic Fox probably needs a good overhaul! I reckon the breaking in period is over, so yesterday I played my heart out for a few hours. One thing I noticed is it seems to take longer to warm up than the Fox. But when it does...hmmm!
For a few hours last month I thought there was a serious problem with the C# pad. It was sticking and not opening correctly. Just by coincidence I read an article a few days later about this happening to new oboes in dry conditions, and our humidity was unusually low at the time. Sure enough, after a while - and a tiny drop of the Doctors key oil - the key was just fine.
Having once lived in France for 9 years I know that their idea of 'freebies/accessories' is very different from ours. Rigoutat is no exception.
My British Hanson clarinet came with a choice of vandoren MPs, quality swab, rovner ligature, 2 barrels and free reeds.
My far more expensive oboe costing ten times more arrived with some kind of horrible flimsy oboe stand in 2 pieces that nobody would be seen dead using, and 2 swabs, both looking very smart: royal blue with 'Rigoutat' written on them ;-)
The smaller swab for the upper joint is okay - just. The larger swab has a cord with a frayed end and a weight that is just not heavy enough - both of which make it extremely difficult getting it down the bore.
Why they insist on including these useless things is a mystery to me.
However, I don't really care. The oboe is beautiful, and that's what counts!
Steve
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2008-04-21 17:10
Then it's probably not broken in yet, and you definitely should not be playing on it for two hours in one sitting!
Most oboists play a new oboe for 5 minutes a day the first week, 10 minutes the second week, 15, the third, etc. If it's only a month old, you should have only been playing on it for about 30 minutes max.
One reason is some people believe the wood needs to get used to being vibrated that much. Another reason people believe (and I agree with) is that the wood needs to be kept dry in order so that the moisture doesn't warp the bore. Once the bore warps, that's all she wrote for the oboe.
It usually takes 3-6 months for an oboe to be fully broken in and settled. However if you set it down for an extended period of time (3mos or more), you might end up having to break it in all over again.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-04-21 20:01
Is your Riec the full Gillet model or slightly simplified (without the split D#-E trill mechanism)?
I tried a full Gillet Riec once (around 8 years back) and it did indeed play like a dream. I only happened to try it out after it had a thumbplate added to check it before it got sent back to it's new owner, but couldn't believe an intermediate model oboe could play like this - and I thought it was as good as any top pro model.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-04-22 06:01
- "Is your Riec the full Gillet model or slightly simplified (without the split D#-E trill mechanism)?" --
I'm ashamed to say that I haven't a clue, not yet being fully conversant with all the trills etc. I'll have a closer look tonight.
As far as I know, the only other version is the fully automatic - mainly for the german market I suppose. English version of the description is here:
http://www.rigoutat.com/student/riec/index.html?ob=10c3952b0b9a23ca483daf32843ea34f
Steve
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Author: cowtime
Date: 2008-04-22 23:35
I've read this thread with great interest because in two days I'm getting a used Fox 333 and a Rigoutat Delphine to try out. I'm hoping that one of these will replace the crappy ancient oboe I got in January just to be sure I still could play the thing after 37 years. I'm told they are quiet different and can't wait to try them. I wondered if I should have tried the RIEC but was assured that the Delphine should suit my humble goal of eventually playing with the local small community orchestra.
I'm glad to hear that you are pleased with your new REIC.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-04-23 06:13
Well, as far as I can tell, there is no split D#-E trill thingy, but then I'm not 100% sure what I'm looking for!
I also noticed on the website that there are 'variants for the North American model.' Now, what on earth does that mean?
I assume the Fox 333 will be plastic, so perhaps a bit safer than the Delphine? Let us know how they sound.
Steve
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Author: ceri
Date: 2008-04-23 19:08
If it has the D#-E trill the right-hand D key will have two rings on it, rather than one and when you use the left hand Eb key only one of the rings will be depressed.
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Author: cowtime
Date: 2008-04-23 23:23
Oops, I should have said used Fox 330 not 333.
The used Delphine has a delran upper joint , the rest wood.
They are in transit right now- should arrive tomorrow!
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Author: JudyP
Date: 2008-04-24 01:04
I have a Fox Renard 330, and I'd like to know how it compares to the
Delphine. I have heard a professional play mine, and it had a good sound
for an intermediate oboe.
I'll be watching for your comparison of the two.
Have fun.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-04-24 13:55
-- "I have a Fox Renard 330, and I'd like to know how it compares to the
Delphine." --
As I understand it, the Fox 330 is considered a very good intermediate instrument whereas the the Rigoutat Delphine is a beginners model, so I imagine there will be a difference.
However, given the fact that the Delphine is made in France, and the Fox in the USA, the strong Euro means that they are more or less the same price in dollars.
A quick search: Fox 330 = $3200 Delphine = 2200 Euro = $3400
Steve
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Author: JudyP
Date: 2008-04-25 01:11
Thanks for the comparison. I'm assuming that the Fox has a better
sound too.
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Author: cowtime
Date: 2008-04-25 02:41
Well..... I got home from work to find my package had arrived. The problem was I had only 40 minutes to eat and get to our community orchestra practice- (I currently play timpani). I had just a few minutes to open them up, play a bit on each and then off to practice. My initial, uneducated impression? The Fox was great but the Delphine felt much better in my hands and was "sweeter/ more mellow" in sound to my ear. They both were a thousand times easier to play than my old "beater".
Luckily my teacher plays oboe with our group so she ran both through their paces before practice. She clipped on her tuner and both played fine through the scale. She did comment that "C" is often a problem and that was ok on both. Then, instead of playing her own Loree, she played about half the practice on the Delphine then switched to the 330. She played it through only a couple of tunes then finished rehearsal on her own oboe. After practice she said though they were both fine on the scales, when she actually "played" them the Delphine was more responsive for her, that the Fox didn't always do what she asked. Her vote is for the Delphine.
Tomorrow evening I'll be able to have time to spend with them both.
quote"As I understand it, the Fox 330 is considered a very good intermediate instrument whereas the the Rigoutat Delphine is a beginners model, so I imagine there will be a difference. "unquote"
Actually I don't think there's much difference in keywork. There is no gillet key, and there's only one RH key on the upper joint(sorry I don't know what that is yet), but it does have a Bb resonance which the Fox lacks. There is a definite difference in sound.
I too questioned the "beginners" tag on the Delphine but have been assured that it will suit my purposes as well as the 330. So I guess I'll just have to play them more tomorrow and maybe by then I'll know which one I want...
Now a question for you stevensfo since you have a Fox and now a RIEC- do you hear a big difference in the sound produced or the feel of the keys?
Post Edited (2008-04-25 02:42)
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-04-25 16:46
-- "do you hear a big difference in the sound produced or the feel of the keys?" --
Well, my plastic Fox oboe is one I bought from Ebay about 3 years ago. Its serial number dates it to 1975 and it just has something like 'Renard Fox' on the bell. There is no LH F. I assume it's a Fox 333 - if they were around in 1975.
I must admit to being impressed. It's obviously very well made and I only had to change a few pads and adjust some screws.
The grenadilla RIEC is brand new and so the keywork is very light and responsive. Afer warming up, the tone is much nicer than than the Fox.
So I'm comparing an old basic student plastic model with a new wooden oboe that's still being 'broken in'.
Steve
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Author: cowtime
Date: 2008-04-26 03:21
I checked the serial number on the Fox 330 and it is about 15 years old- it is a Fox Renard, all plastic . The case, case cover etc. show little signs of wear so someone took good care of it. I am impressed with the quality of the instrument, particularly given the age.
The Rigoutat Delphine is less than a year old and is also obviously an oboe of good quality.
So, like you I'm comparing an older oboe with a much newer, (mostly wooden )oboe.
I've gotta say, now that I've had some time to play on both this evening, that I really, really like the Delphine. It just fits my hands better, and seems easier for me to play.
I'm not making the call yet, but have definite leanings toward the Delphine. I'll take another couple of days before I decide.
I
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-04-26 07:06
- "It just fits my hands better, and seems easier for me to play." -
Well, according to the website, it is made for smaller hands.
http://www.rigoutat.com/student/delphine/index.html?ob=74162c0fd05a13306eb7f2673c6f547f
Of course, once you've decided on the oboe, you only have the trifling matter of which reeds to use!
Happy playing!
Steve
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2008-04-26 23:01
Based on descriptions and illustrations, it seems the Rigoutat Delphine and Fox 330 are actually about the same with low Bb, Left F and F res -- although given choice of young wood or old plastic ... plus 2nd opinion that the wood oboe's more responsive ... plus it feels and handles nicely, sounds better too ... it's a heart-throb already :-)
... except for two differences -- the Delphine has low Bb vent while the Fox 330 has the little extra curly trill key over the Right G#
the Bb vent apparently improves ease of playing low Bb up to pitch, which seems to be more likely a note to play than using the curly A/B (or Ab/Bb) trill key over the Right G# key -- that's the long key hanging down on the lower right of the top joint, it's palmed by the inside knuckle of index finger as a trill, or useful for left & right switching alternate fingerings in multiple sharps or flats -- so methinks the curly key isn't a big item for making a choice between these oboes, the Bb vent is the definite plus here
Based on descriptions and illustrations methinks NAmerican Intermediate is generally equivalent to European Beginners, in NAmerica, the Beginners oboe has no low Bflat cap (although may have hole/s in bell), no Left F, only the most basic essential keywork, may only have lower D trill lever and no D trill key on top joint, only the C# trill on top joint, and wire instead of steel springs
Q. What does anybody use the curly key for mostly anyway?
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2008-04-27 01:23
Q. What does anybody use the curly key for mostly anyway?
I mostly use it as an ergonomic right hand Ab <g>
However it's for the Ab-A (G#-A) trill. It makes it more in-tune than using the non-curly thing.
♫ Stephen K.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-04-27 12:44
"I mostly use it as an ergonomic right hand Ab"
I also prefer to use this G#-A trill key (the curly one) than the fixed side G# key for a G#-A trill as the action is better.
But it's real use is indeed for the G#-A trill which is done by keeping the curly key held down with RH1 and trilling with LH3. This key opens the G# key but closes the LH3 fingerplate to bring the A down to pitch while the G# key is open as the perforation in the fingerplate is left uncovered. Depending on how your oboe is set up, the curly G#-A trill key may also close the LH2 fingerplate as well, though it's not really that important if it doesn't as the LH G# key will close it (see below).
Ab-Bb trill is by playing Ab (G#) and trilling with LH2 - a linkage from the LH G# key (mounted over by the LH C-D trill key barrel) closes the LH2 fingerplate to bring the Bb down to pitch, again as the perforation in the LH2 fingerplate is uncovered when LH2 is lifted.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: cowtime
Date: 2008-04-28 01:42
My choice is made- I'm keeping the Rigoutat Delphine. I liked both, but the keywork just fit my hands so much better. All the keys were right there and on the Fox I had to stretch a bit. Plus, I just loved the darker mellow sound.
pics are here-
http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb199/cowtime/oboe%20trials/
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Author: OboePrince
Date: 2015-01-28 05:13
I play on this very instrument myself.
I love the sound of the horn. I have had to use a plastic Fox when mine was getting aligned, and you can warm it up faster because plastic barely needs warming up at all.
The RIEC is a beautiful instrument. I would warn you, however (even though every oboe is different, so mine might be a lot different, but for me) the oboe is about a half inch longer than most other oboes, and it has a larger bore. I think it's both good and bad. You can play with a lot of resonance and a really nice sound on the horn. However, where most oboes ride a little sharp, this one sits flat in most of its tendencies, so in your reedmaking, you need to be aware of that and tune the reeds a tiny bit higher. Maybe 5 cents. Or tell your reedmaker.
Another problem with the horn is that it will accept more air than an oboe should allow, which is actually nice for a lot of the notes, especially the half hole notes are beautiful, but it allows you to play louder and brighter than you should, so YOU have to be conscious of how much air you are moving through the reed, because this oboe won't do it for you. It is only of medium resistance, which I prefer to low or high resistance oboes, but you have to be in control on your air, because your instrument won't do it for you, and if you overblow, you will run flatter than all holy hell.
Hope this helps! I love my RIEC. It's hard to say whether or not I liked it more than my Covey. Different animal. It has a bigger sound, and overall more resonance, but if you push too much air, bright and flat. The covey would never do that, it had so much resistance that I would just turn red in the face, it refused to accept my overblowing. Actually I loved the tone on that thing, and it was a professional model (where as a RIEC is a "Collegiate" model) but it was from the late 70's and didn't have some of the keys I actually NEEDED (such as the right Ab, but screw that third octave key, I don't need that, I used to play flute) so the RIEC has been a BEAUTIFUL replacement for him, and it is SO different from a Loree, which I love, because I don't like their horns. (I know I'm not the only one, but I'm in the minority.)
I just think Loree's scream. Brightly. Projection at the cost of timbre.
Anyway, RIEC is a great investment. It's a really good oboe. Mine is 10 years old and can still sing even better than if she were new.
Hope this was informative.
American Oboist. I currently play on a Rigoutat Riec. She is beautiful.
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