 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: William
Date: 2002-06-27 16:36
Has anyone else noticed a recent decline in the quality of VanDoren V12's--and if so, why???? I am going through a new box and am not finding that usual "core" of sound. Just wondering...........(and hoping it's not just me getting old)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-06-27 16:54
I had heard a rumor that the man who puts the one good reed in the box was recently on vacation.
You probably got one of the boxes selected by his replacement.
Additionally, I heard those boxes were all shipped to the mid USA.
Sorry...GBK (East Coast resident)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-06-27 17:08
William...Now for the serious answer...
No, it is not you (I hope that makes you feel a bit better). I have also seen the quality of V-12's recently vary widely from beautiful coloration of the sound to absolutely awful. Much more than usual, and not even being able to save the lesser quality V-12's with my normal reed prep/balancing/finishing (which, after many years, I know is quite good).
As a result, for the time being, I have been playing more of the Traditional Blue Box, and a good number of Gonzalez FOF reeds.
During the humid summer months, I usually go back to the Vandoren Blue Box Traditionals anyway, as with having a thinner blank, the swelling due to humidity is more manageable.
I am still quite impressed with the Gonzalez FOF, and are using them more and more...GBK
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Author: Brian Peterson
Date: 2002-06-27 17:10
William--
I haven't noticed an appreciable change. I do have to work on them. Sometimes after setting them aside for a few months, the ones that seemed like dogs actually play better.
I've been a BB participant for going on four years now and to be honest, the issue you raise invariably crops up every few months or so. You might want to run a search and see what others have had to say.
Good Luck
Brian Peterson
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-06-27 20:09
Brian Peterson wrote:
>
>
> I've been a BB participant for going on four years now and to
> be honest, the issue you raise invariably crops up every few
> months or so
And has for decades past ...
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-06-27 20:48
I've been playing Vandoren reeds since 1958, and clarinetists then were complaining that quality had declined. Undoubtedly, they were doing so in the 40s and 30s, too. I opened a box from the 60s a couple of years ago, and they were the same as they are now.
There never was much of a golden age. Vandoren's drive you nuts, but the good ones the best you can get, now as then.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-06-27 21:24
As usual in the summer, the humidity is almost always hanging around 75% RH at my house. It is a killer for playing the oboe and a bother for playing the clarinet. It helps a lot to put the reeds under an incandescent 75 Watt lamp for 10 or 15 minutes before wetting them to play. This dries out the whole reed of the moisture absorbed during cycles of barometric pressure, including the butt. When one wets the reed to play, the butt stays fairly dry and the whole reed is less stiff and easier to play. This was also recommended by the late Robert Sprenkle of the Rochester orchestra.
Good luck!!
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Author: William
Date: 2002-06-27 22:26
I heard that Lisa Argiris--Chicago area professional clarinetist and owner of the International Musical Suppliers in Des Plaines,
IL--had complained to her VanDoren rep, a couple of weeks ago, about the inferior quality of recent reed shipments to her store. She plays and sells a lot of reeds and should know if "something is up" in France. I have been playing VD's for almost 40 yrs and know that are famous for inconsistancy--but, if you get a good one, viola!!! (or something like that) Just thought I would post the question and see if y'all had experianced what I am finding in my latest box of ten. So, thanks for your indulgence...and back to your long tones.
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Author: Nick Conner
Date: 2002-06-28 01:28
this is a quick, btw. The GOOD reeds have not all been shipped to the mid-US (Indiana resident here). Maybe they went to the west coast... :-)
Nick Conner
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Author: rmk
Date: 2002-06-28 03:53
According to Gregory Smith (perhaps he will confirm this here) the Vandoren V-12 dimensions have changed slightly to accomdate their M series mouthpieces.
For those of us that use mouthpieces other than Vandoren, this has *not* been a change for the better.
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2002-06-28 04:44
Well, yes and no. Vandoren simply changed the cutter that trims the tip of the V12 in the last few months and now the curve of the tip is slightly straighter across - less rounded at the tip corners.
Whether it fits the Vand. mouthpieces more accurately is one thing. Whether this is therefore *better* for Vandoren mouthpieces than other mouthpieces is highly a doubtful claim from what I've been able to determine. However, the change in how the reed responds and feels will be evident to most since the reed dimensions have changed irrespective of what mouthpiece one plays.
Vandoren has purchased land for more of their own cane fields near their factory in France instead of relying on Argentinian cane as they had in the past. It is taking some time for them to grow enough cane to keep up with demand for the V12 (the V12 cane tube is larger and is also used for sax reeds). Until they have enough land and cane fields to be able to harvest more cane overall, they won't have access to as much of the larger, thicker tubes for thicker blank reeds like the V12. This limits the amount of stock from which they have to select and perhaps the quality control is not up to high enough standards for lack of supply on which to draw. This doesn't mean of course that Vandoren should put this inferior cane in the box anyway.
All one has to do is look at the quality of fibers in the present V12 3 1/2's compared to let's say the Gonzalez and see that Vandoren is having quality problems with their cane. No fibers in the heart going to the tip (lately) means an immediate disqualification of most of the reeds in the box. But then again there are consistency problems when they do have a run of boxes where the fibers go high enough up into the heart of the reed. Changing the tip configuration AND having a run of extra bad looking cane is a double whammy.
I think GBK is right when he speculates that the worker in the factory chosen to put the one reed in the box that plays is out of town. They probably demanded a vacation to save their reputation - at least until the cane bound for their inspection at least seems to "look" right again.
Gregory Smith
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2002-06-28 12:34
I have recently become a big fan of the Davie Cane company and the Gonzalez and Mozart reeds. I just know that I get more better sounding reeds per box than Vandy V-12's. A great Vandy is still the hallmark to judge other reeds. It is hard for me to judge recent changes in quality because, besides being an accessory freak, I am also a reed hoarder and have more than a lifetime supply stored away but still continue to accumulate and hoard. The quality of the Gonzalez cane seems to be better (if one can determine the sound produced by a reed by inspecting the gross anatomy by holding it up to the light). I will defer to those that play for a living and have great talent to make substantive comments on the quality of the cane and the resultant sound.
As posted earlier, a more consistent sound can be achieved by archiving reeds in a humidity controlled environment rather than trying to adjust the total reed moisture content by quick drying or wetting. Several pro's that I know store reeds in a humidor or the less sophisticated plastic kitchenware tub with desiccant and some device to measure relative humidity. Once on the horn and being played the reed will reach a high relative humidity but the first few moments of playing are the critical stage.
The Doctor
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-06-28 13:36
Ken Shaw:
"There never was much of a golden age. Vandoren's drive you nuts, but the good ones the best you can get, now as then."
Everytime I tell myself to give up Vandorens and try something else, I pull out another good reed and wonder why I was going to give it up. I agree with you there!
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Author: beejay
Date: 2002-06-28 16:21
I honestly see no deterioration. I've had consistently good V12 reeds for months. I thought changing my mouthpiece might have had a lot to do with it.
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-06-29 01:33
Ken Shaw wrote:
"There never was much of a golden age. Vandoren's drive you nuts, but the good ones the best you can get, now as then."
I respectfully disagree. The Morees I used in the mid-to late 80's were better than anything I've ever pulled out of a Vandy box, V12 or traditional. Those things were GREAT!!!
How do these Davie Cane reeds compare to everyone's memories of the Morees?
Katrina
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2002-06-29 02:44
From what Phil Shapiro - Miami Symphony - has told me the Gonzalez reeds are patterned after the old Moree cut. I find them to be very good but there is a disconnect in my clarinet history and I only have vague memories of the old Moree reeds. It could be like living in Syracuse N.Y. during those years that I tend to forget the bad (103 inches of snow in 3 days) and only remember the good parts - Moree reeds and snow skiing.
As in anything associated with playing the clarinet, one should try it for themselves and make their own evaluation. Phil and the Davie Cane people are very nice to deal with - unlike some instrument manufacturers and reed companies that will not respond to questions or constructive criticism - maybe because they are the new kids on the block and really care about customer service. They were at the Oklahoma Clarinet Symposium (sorry I missed it) and perhaps some of the BB folks can give you their impressions from their trial reeds.
The Doctor
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-06-29 03:03
Kat...The older stock of Morees were legendary, and I have not played anything as satisfying since. The later batches of Morees were inconsistant, and frankly no better or worse than a decent box of V-12's.
The Gonzalez FOF cane is (at least, so far) quite good. The quality of the cut, and the density of the fibers is reminiscent of the older Morees. I have been using them fairly regularly for almost a year, and my opinion has not changed. At this point, with the quality control issues at Vandoren, and the lack of suitable cane for the V-12's, the Gonzalez FOF are an excellent alternative.
I had written extensively about Gonzalez FOF reeds previously. If you do a search under my initials and Gonzalez, you will find what I wrote...GBK
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-06-29 04:18
Thanks GBK, I know you've written about them before...I just got lazy...sorry! 
K.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2002-06-29 20:48
As the owner of Vandoren said reed is like wine and tastes(sounds?) different in different countries, I think there would be Vintage years too.
Buy as many reeds in vintage years.
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Author: Jack
Date: 2002-07-11 17:46
Hi GBK, could you please tell me how does the Gonzalez FOF reed compared with V12 strength-wise?
After reading what you wrote, I might want to try that out.
Thanks!
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