 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Dan
Date: 2001-11-14 05:51
Since I'm still feeling the shaming effects of Peter's comments to my post "Choosing a good clarinet", I feel compelled to warn all new users who come to this wonderful site in search of help or enlightnement.
The great, great majority of Sneezers are considerate, respectful individuals with a sincere desire to help others with their problems. But BEWARE!! Learn the unwritten rules of the game!!! If you do not use IMO (In my opinion) or IMHO (in my honest opinion), certain individuals, whom I shall call "flame throwers" will come out of their closets and let you have it!! But I must also warn new users that because this site has no written rules of verbal conduct as to how each respondent to a post is to treat another enthusiast, your posting may bring out a few "sharks" who will verbally chew you to death with statements of shame, belittlements, or other verbage which falls into the general catagory of verbal abuse.
Because I told Peter not to respond anymore to my posting, his refusal to do so coupled with his continual verbal attacks upon me, I feel compelled, for my own emotional safety, to remove myself from this site. Mark Charette's statement of "all threads pass" was really the posting response that "broke the camel's back". Wherever verbal abuse is unrecognized or worse yet, condoned, for my own emotional well being, I must leave the arena. I tried earlier today to search through the various Sneezy postings and became so depressed, I had to quickly exit and take care of myself. Verbal abuse, unfortunately, has quite a devasting affect upon me and will take several more days for me to fully recover.
But, take heart, new user...this is still the best site for clarinet information. I suggest first that you browse around for a few days and carefully note how original postings are initiated. Learn the "unwritten rules" of the game and all should go well for you. I have, indeed, received a lot of good advice from fellow enthusiasts
for which I am thankful.
So, welcome new comers, but (IMHO) be careful how you word your posting. Again, the great majority of respondents are kind and considerate individuals, but keep your "flame suit" within reach if necessary and beware of "sharks". The best way (IMO) to handle them is to quickly skip their posting before their words begin to shred your flesh.
I'm sure that in the future I'll discretely browse around but will probably never post again. Too bad...because I have so much yet to learn.
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Author: Joris
Date: 2001-11-14 07:08
Peter's comments were perhaps not the most silk ones, but to call him a `flame thrower' is a bit overdone I think. Maybe his judgement is rash (I don't know, since I don't know the truth), but I don't get the impression that he does it to start a fight. Calling people `flame throwers' and `sharks', while they, maybe not in the best fashion, intend to be helpfull, is about just as bad.
If a comment like Peter's hurt's you allready that bad, then something must have gone terribly wrong somewhere.
Joris
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Author: Emms
Date: 2001-11-14 08:13
I'm sorry,but I agree with Dan. Maybe he has overreacted a little, but people (some quite young) use this site to find help. I think if people can't help in afriendly way, they should shut up. Some could become worried about posting in case their comments aren't good enough for the cranially enlarged. Joris, how can you say that there must be something wrong with Dan if he gets upset about Peter's comments? He asked for advice and got a dressing down from Peter. Maybe Peter should take up a sport and get rid of his frustrations elsewhere and leave the majority of people more comfortable to use this site.
Dan, just put it behind you. Unfortunately there are people like this around and much worse! I wonder if they talk like this to give themselves an inflated feeling of importance.
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Author: graham
Date: 2001-11-14 08:30
Dan is right, and so is Emms. If you don't know someone then you cannot tell what effect harsh words may have on them. There is no point in making hard nosed gladatorial postings about people you don't even know. There is always a gentler way of expressing something, and if you find a posting contemptible, then it is better simply to pass on the other side rather than offer your unique brand of assistance. That said, the same now applies to Dan's comments about Peter. Peter has feelings as well.
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Author: Joris
Date: 2001-11-14 09:24
Emms,
in reaction to `how can
you say that there must be something wrong with Dan if he gets upset about Peter's
comments?'
First of all, I did not say anything was wrong with Dan, and I sertainly did not want to wake that impression. Something must have gone terribly wrong in the communication is perhaps a better formulation.
Furthermore I don't get the idea (I might be wrong) that Dan is just upset, as I understand it, he is more like so badly hurt that he doesn't dare to post anymore (which is a shame I think).
I think this board is in some reflect a reflection of real life, there are people walking around which don't have much tact (I'm a little affraid I'm one of them). I think one should be able to discart `some stupid responce', especially as there is a lot of posts beneath it telling off the person who did the stupid responce.
graham,
`There is no point in making hard nosed
gladatorial postings about people you don't even know.' That is just the point I was trying to make. It's wrong of Peter to do it to Dan, but I don't think it's any good calling people `sharks' and `flame-throwers' either.
Joris
P.S.: If, by accident, I'm offencive to anybody, please do tell me to shut up.
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2001-11-14 11:04
Dan you lose--Peter wins.
Anytime you let someone who puts you and your ideas down and you let them; then they win and you lose.
If you leave this site because of one other person then you are the loser.
Think about it. You have a lot more to gain by staying and a lot to lose by leaving.
just forget about the Peter's of this world and go on with your own life.
Peace
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Author: Mario
Date: 2001-11-14 12:08
A web site is like the road.
While in our private lives we all are very choosy about whom we associate closely with, web sites are public space (like the road) and we are bound to run into individuals who could drive us nuts if we are not careful. If one starts to worry about the ** tone ** of replies... It is like taking personally the assinine behavior of too many drivers on the road.
One must keep in mind this old, wise, arab proverb: "The dogs bark; the caravan moves on." Or one must keep Cyrano de Bergerac in mind as a model of proper behavior when running into fools.
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Author: graham
Date: 2001-11-14 12:11
Dan loses, Peter loses, we all lose. That is why it is always best to take a milder tack. People can be sensitive, and it is difficult for them to apply rational logic to their feelings. As Bob says; peace.
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Author: Mark Charette, Webmaster
Date: 2001-11-14 12:54
I refuse for many reasons to censor posts that are mild flames; the major reason is that arguments are <b>good</b> for the exchange of ideas. If I followed the advice of censoring or banning posts that are abrasive (not abusive - Peter's post was far from abusive) then I know for a fact that a Mark Twain or Winston Chuchill would never be posting here.
As I've said before, you need a thick skin if you're posting. I can't just let people who agree with each other post - we'd learn <b>nothing</b> that way. Perhaps you didn't like what Peter said, or how he said it, but that happens to people here all the time. It all depends on whose ox is being gored.
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Author: MsRoboto
Date: 2001-11-14 13:12
Boy I hate to fuel this fire but here goes....
I actually agree with Peter maybe not in exactly how he said it but I read the gist to be...
If you want something badly enough you must be willing to devote the necessary time and resources to solve the problem. This is true in life as in clarinet buying. Good things in life do not come easy and work and inconvenience may be required to achieve your goals.
Okay flame me....
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Author: sidss
Date: 2001-11-14 13:22
I take issue with what Dan has to say. Peter spoke the truth, and if that hurts, so be it.
Dan has overreacted, and I saw no evidence of "verbal abuse" as Dan calls it.
Come on Dan, get over it, and rejoin the Forum. I would have said the same things Peter did my friend, if one of them came up and told me the same story that Dan posted a few days back.
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Author: sidss
Date: 2001-11-14 13:32
I am also surprised that a mild post from Peter would cause issues of "emotional well-being" as Dan puts it. Look, Dan, if you criticise something, or someone or a store, or anything, you have to understand that others may not agree with you and let you know that they disagree with your opinion. One of the things about living life as a mature adult is to gain the ability to deal with opinions, or people who dont agree with us, or who are disagreeable to us. Running away to maintain your "emotional well-being" is not the way to deal with this situation.
If I were you, i would debate Peter, and get into a discussion about what you guys disagreed about ,instead of making accusations of "verbal abuse".
In the past 5 years, I have had to deal with 2 bouts with life-threatening illness- cancer, so when a person talks about his "emotional well-being" being affected just because some guy on a bulletin board disagreed with him, I find it really ridiculous. Now, i guess, Dan will accuse me of "verbal abuse" too!!!!!
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Author: graham
Date: 2001-11-14 13:43
arguments (as in debate)
exchange of ideas
learning from others
The above are in the good category
Goring oxes
demeaning people (whether it tips the scales towards "abusive" or not)
scoring points in a gladitorial fashion
These are in the bad category, and stifle rather than encourage the good things.
Censorship must be avoided, because it is better to deal with this through self discipline rather than a set of rigid rules imposed from above. I think we just need to encourage positive attitudes rather than negative ones.
Twain was a polemic minded author. Churchill was a journalist/politician. This board caters for clarinet players. I see quite a difference there. Anyhow, we cannot tell what it would have taken for Curchill to throw himself in front of a moving train. But we do know that he thought along those lines sometimes. His reaction when he was "flamed" by de Gaulle in a newspaper article in the early 1940s shows just how sensitive Churchill could be. He had feelings, and his feelings hurt a good deal of the time.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2001-11-14 13:50
Two things I don't like about this bulletin board: forays into psychobabble like this post, and failure to learn how to spell embouchure before rushing into print. Otherwise, it is one of the greatest resources on the Internet, and I thoroughly support the way our webmaster runs it. I'm considerate and respectful, so I hope this won't be misinterpreted, but hey, Dan, isn't there a saying about heat and kitchens? It would be a bland world indeed if we all had to go around agreeing with one another all the time.
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2001-11-14 13:57
ENOUGH already. Lets get back to the main subject!
Which was???????????????
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Author: Lisa
Date: 2001-11-14 14:17
I'm probably unwise to step into this fray, but why is no one addressing the fact that the tenor of Dan's responses to Peter were far more "abusive" than Peter's original response?
Peter may have been impatient and calling Dan a whiner, but I hardly think that can be considered "verbal abuse". He wasn't nice, but he wasn't abusive. He made assumptions about Dan that Dan clearly believes were false.
On the other hand, Dan's responds that "...As a product of an abusive alchoholic home for 19 years, I guess I'm a little more sensitive than others. Actually your comments bring back many years of pain from childhood. But, then again, I'm sure you already knew this." !!!!! He assumes that Peter's comments were in some way meant to personally harm him, or that Peter somehow got off on hurting his feelings. I'm fairly certain that this was not Peter's intend.
Dan, I too am a product of an abusive and alchoholic home. Please be careful not to use that as a crutch when dealing with other people. Rise above.
I understand why your feelings were hurt by Peter's original response. I don't understand why you would let someone you don't know hurt your feelings to the point of no longer posting, especially when it seems that public opinion is leaning your way.
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Author: Ginny
Date: 2001-11-14 16:04
I have only been reading posts to sneezy recently...having avoided the site altogether briefly. I was sick of some of the posts from the occasional mean spirited, discouraging, negative, obviously neurotic, arrogant, defective persons. I find them upsetting even when directed at others and occasionally felt the need to do something. Especially when the negativity is directed at beginneers or kids. A stupid futile battle, making me become the enemy in all likelyhood.
I certainly understand Dan's view of this forum and Mark's reason for not trying to censor.
Some people like flame feasts, my husband loves the motorcycle group, for that reason in part...and seems to enjoy wearing his 'asbestos underwear' while roasting other fools. I would prefer a clarinet bboard full of love and support, without meanies...but this is what this is.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2001-11-14 16:56
Hey folks, lets get a little perspective here:
1. terrorist attacks
2. plane crashes
3. war
4. verbally debating clarinet purchase procedures
Who are we kidding?? ...GBK
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Author: Rob
Date: 2001-11-14 18:03
Well, I just can't keep my thoughts to myself on this one anymore. I have read all of the posts in both threads (that's 45 minutes I'll never get back) and I must admit I found it all less than intriguing. I feel the need though to disabuse both parties of some mistaken assumptions.
Growing up in an alcoholic and abusive home does not necessarily make one more sensitive. I grew up in such a home, where the daily "events" would make a Jerry Springer audience gasp in shock. I (and all of my siblings) have been regularly accused of being among the most in-sensitive folks to ever grace the earth with our presence. As a note to Dan, I would quickly drop the routine of blaming your sensitivity on your upbringing and environment. Those of us who have been through the same or worse and have chosen to overcome the negative effects of our experiences may find it offensive. I know I do.
I did not find Peter's comments particularly offensive nor did I find them abusive in any way. What I did see was that Peter related his opinions and thoughts and they were not those that Dan wanted to hear. While his delivery may not have been very diplomatic, it was honest and informed. It is important to remember that diplomacy and honesty are not the same thing. That is why we have lawyers.
I have also found, over the years, that many differences inthe kind of verbal behavior that one finds acceptable or not, have more to do with cultural and (in the very large USA) regional differences. What may seem like perfectly acceptable speech where I grew up (NYC) can get in untold trouble where I now live (Minneapolis). My personal experience has also shown me that the people who have the highest expectation that everyone should be "nice" to them all of the time, are usually the same people who tend to think and act impulsivey, irresponsibly and with no regard for how their actions may affect others. They want everyone to be nice to them because they know that their foolish behavior more often than not puts them in the wake of someone else's criticsm and so they often cry that they are being abused. This is not "psycho-babble" as one poster put it, it is rather my own observation from 20 years of training, providing and managing customer service operations for various companies. I have found that many people need to learn that being treated with honesty and respect does not necessarily mean that you will never experience things that you do not like.
As a final note to Dan, the best method of purchasing a clarinet can be frustrating, but it is what it is. You should be happy that you have access to so many choices, no matter how long it may take you to explore them. That sounds like an embarrassment of riches to me. Surely a sensitive soul like you can grasp that perspective.
As a final note to Peter. I do not disagree at all with the comments you made in your posts, and I particularly enjoyed the story about your son on the canoe trip in the Everglades. (I did the same thing to some poor fool when in high school on a canoe trip on the Delaware River) but you may get better responses if you temper your comments a bit. All in all though, as my Mother often said (and someone else, I'm sure) " If you can't think of anything nice to say dear, come stand next to me."
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Author: Emms
Date: 2001-11-14 18:14
Strange that these threads get more response than the ones on clarinets! If we all have the time to put in our penny's worth here, maybe we should all try replying more to the others in a more diplomatic way. There are more names here than I've seen on other postings.
I don't really call Peter's response an argument. He just assumed Dan was a spoilt child having temper tantrums, and told him so. This is quite different from various anonymous people finding answers offensive. Dan asked for help and was directly insulted. (However, Dan's response was OTT)
As for telling him how he should behave after being abused, good for the ones who rise above, but have empathy for those that can't. Wounds can run deep.We are humans, not robots.
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Author: sidss
Date: 2001-11-14 18:26
I too grew up in an abusive home, and in the past 5 years have had to deal with 2 bouts with cancer- however, I never use it as a crutch. Dan whined because the people at the store in NYC did not treat him like he was god's gift to humankind, and he came to this board to whine about it.
GROW UP, Dan!!!!!
And then he made accusations about the supposed "verbal abuse" Peter subjected him to, and about how his "emotional well-being " was at stake!!!! How pathetic.!!!!
Dan, it seems has an ego that is bigger than the size of Monatana, and it is fragile too.
How in hell does he get through the daily stresses of life- I bet people are not lining up to kiss his you know what.
I am not posting on this topic any more.
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Author: LynnB
Date: 2001-11-14 18:34
There have been a few people on this board who seem to get ruffled by other's comments. People have opinions of all kinds. I will not let other people's words change my mood; they don't have that much power over me. Don't worry about it.
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Author: LynnB
Date: 2001-11-14 18:43
Ginny writes: the occasional mean spirited, discouraging, negative, obviously neurotic, arrogant, defective persons.
Yeah, welcome to the world of clarinets. When I played in orchestras, you wouldn't believe the stuff we did to each other. It was kinda fun.
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Author: Randy
Date: 2001-11-14 19:24
Some of the reply's to this posting sure take alot of space to just remind everyone that Sticks and stones may break my bones but words.........
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Author: Bottom Line
Date: 2001-11-14 21:04
I'm not my father's greatest fan, but If you think my dad is hard-core, you should see my mom!
Her favorite line is, "Well, whoever told you life is fair, lied to you." That's probably also her most sympathetic line to us since we grew up, usually said just before she helps us out in any way we need..
I have one sister who took a sari - similar to nunchakos, but made of a short, weighted string - to her ex-husband and beat the crap out of him after he slapped her once. She threw him out after that.
The funny thing is that we have a 25,000 piece music library and a 4,000 book library, the least of us plays four instruments relatively well and we are all well instructed in music theory!
Need I say my father grew up in N.Y.?
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2001-11-14 21:58
Rob said: "All in all though, as my Mother often said (and someone else, I'm sure) " If you can't think of anything nice to say dear, come stand next to me."
The quote Rob references (usually in this form: "If you haven't got anything good to say about anybody, come sit next to me."), probably has indeed been said by any number of people, but is usually attributed to Alice Roosevelt Longworth, daughter of Teddy Roosevelt, and quite an interesting person in her own right. Some sources claim she even had the saying embroidered on one of her sofa pillows.
Todd W.
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Author: Rob
Date: 2001-11-14 23:21
To Todd W:
Many thanks for correcting and providing proper attribution to my quote, or paraphrase as it were. I was a bit fatigued this afternoon and so the font of worthless information that is my brain failed me. Thanks for picking up my slack. The wealth of knowledge and experience displayed by the folks on this BB never ceases to amaze me.
What a great site!
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2001-11-15 00:45
Rob--
Not at all intended as a correction or criticism, just a little additional historical information added after reading your very insightful and evenhanded post. (It's quite possible your mom came up with her version without even hearing the Roosevelt quip.)
Todd W.
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Author: Dan
Date: 2001-11-15 01:17
My wife and I have carefully read each response to my posting entitled "WARNING". During many of the readings, we were both totally astonished at the ignorance and arragance as well as the sensitivity of the responses. It is absolultely astounding to me that many of you simply cannot see verbal abuse when it is staring you right in the face!
Run, don't walk, to the library or your nearest book store and read any of Patricia Evans' books on verbal abuse. It appears that many of you need enlightnment desperately.
Peter did not just disagree with me...his words were a personal attack upon my character. His words were loaded with shame and belittlement.
And the insensitivity of those who say they grew up in similar situations and overcame...well...congratulations!! Not everybody can do that. All of my life I have had to deal with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Not because of fighting some war... I left home with this condition. But, I shall stop because I sense that some will say "Oh boy, another crutch!".
I like my mother's saying best: "If you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all."
We are all human beings, created in the image of God, and (IMO) the least we can do is to learn how to treat each other in a respectful manner.
My thanks to all that have responded...even to those who sided with Peter. I have no hard feelings and am at peace. I have decided to just forgive and forget.
Good-bye and good clarinetting to all!!
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Author: willie
Date: 2001-11-15 02:05
Don't give up on as yet, Dan. We all have to take some things with a grain of salt from time to time. Some times it is hard make a statementthat doesn't hurt or offend someone, especially if your vocabulary is not the tops. Like when my wife asked me if her new swim suit made her look fat. Do I tell her the truth or try to fib to her? Either way I get slammed. A diplomat I ain't.
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Author: Pam
Date: 2001-11-15 02:37
You have time to read books about verbal abuse??! Maybe you should be playing your clarinet more and building up that self-esteem. Don't let other people's opinions bother you so much. Each of us are different, we are not always going to agree with everyone in the room -- or bulletin board. That's what makes life interesting. Some things you just need to let roll off your back and get on with life.
This is not an attack. Just my opinion.
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Author: sidss
Date: 2001-11-15 02:43
Dan, for the sake of argument, lets assume that Peter and I were verbally abusive and everything else that you said was done to you. Now, as an adult, dont you realise that if it has impacted you so much, you ought to do something about it? i dont mean to say this as a putdown, but there is no shame in seeking professional help. I have in the past 6 years been through 2 bouts with cancer, and I wasnt dealing with thigs very well, and after holding out for a while and being a pain in the neck to my family and friends, I went and sought help. I would encourage you to do so too.
Because doing nothing, and complaining and whining about it will accomplish nothing for you. If you wish to discuss this, please e-mail me privately, i will be glad to talk to you.
Sid
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Author: Rob
Date: 2001-11-15 02:53
To Todd W.:
I did not feel criticized in any way. I wanted only to thank you for increasing my knowledge.
To Dan:
You obviously feel very strongly that a wrong (or many wrongs) have been committed against you and that in this case, that you are a victim of verbal abuse and character asassination. You mention also, rather dramatically, that you have dealt with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder all of your life and you and your wife have carefully read each response to your original "WARNING!!!" post. Some things you may want to bear in mind are:
You originally posted on the BB hoping to find suggestions for overcoming the problem you described, but your inclusion of information regarding your frustrations and personal (and rather sarcastic)criticisms of people you do not personally know (such as the clerk at WW&BW) indicated that you were also seeking validation for your feelings of frustration, expressed in the post. You did not find that validation. Instead you found some rather blunt criticism of your attitude and behavior. Was it unpleasant? Perhaps. Did it constitute abuse? No, it did not. Abuse by definition is maltreatment and you were not maltreated. You were told that your perception of a situation and the feelings of frustration that arose from the situation were invalid. That is not maltreatment. That is an opinion, no matter how stridently or aggressively it was delivered and no matter how accurate or inaccurate you felt it to be. It was nothing more than that. Was your character assaulted or criticized? No, rather your behavior and attitude were criticized. It would hardly be possible for Peter to criticize your character with any validity, since, as you have expressed, he does not know you.
You have expressed that you are a sensitive person and yet you seem to be quite ready and willing to publicly criticize the behavior of others, and with great vitriol I might add. I wonder if in your opinion, your public criticism of Peter (and others)contstitutes abuse. I learned, through many years of therapy, that no matter how valid or important I believe my feelings to be, that I am their sole custodian, that it is both folly and a recipe for failure and misery to hold others responsible for them. Seeking validation from others or trying to express the validation of your feelings through the actions of others (as you did when you mentioned that your wife had carefully read all of the responses to your post, and again when you mentioned that many of the respondents to this thread required additional education to recognize verbal abuse) indicates to others that you are unsure of your own opinions and that they must be validated by others. This indicates that you may have an immediate expectation that your own opinions will be dismissed and so you criticize the perceptions and opinions of others and then ask those you have criticized to seek validation of your criticism at the same time. That would be quite a feat if it actually worked. All it does is show others that you know only what you have been told or have read, but that you may not be able to actually understand it or believe it yourself and so, you invalidate your own statements when your intention is the opposite. It also may be a sign that your recovery may not yet have provided you with sufficient emotional maturity to successfully navigate critical discourse with other adults without risking damage to your psyche. I am realtively certain that no one on the BB wants to damage your psyche.
I for one, will never post another response on the BB to any thread in which I find you as a participant. It is apparent that any comments I might make could cause you extreme distress. I hope that you find the recovery that you seek, and I hope we have seen the last of this thread. If you are receiving therapy from a licensed psychotherapist or licensed clinical psychologist, I encourage you to to discuss your reactions to this discussion thread with him/her. I think you may find it to be an instructive conversation.
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Author: RonD
Date: 2001-11-15 05:52
Everyone please get back to your practice and stop beating this thread to death.
STOP ALREADY
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-11-15 06:15
In closing an exercise in writing Tanka (an expanded Haiku)
Just a few lines in Tanka for more light, less heat.
Critical comment,
justified exposition,
technicality.
Gentleness and forthrightness,
an inner validation.
Bob Arney
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Author: Karel Vahala
Date: 2001-11-15 13:39
This Bulletin Board is a forum for interactive discussion and exchange of ideas and information. If we were to put our kid gloves on to the extent of not possibly offending any oversensitive individuals, freedom of discourse would virtually cease. Adult and mature young individuals are expected to have acquired some thickness of skin and the ability to cope with disagreament, otherwise they do not belong in discussion groups. Rudeness is a rarity on this BB, and I have enjoyed it greatly for almost 3 years now. I hope it continues as it has been. Karel.
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2001-11-15 14:05
I hate to correct all of you people, BUT it was Thumber (the bunny in Bambe) that said "If you can't say something nice don't say nothing at all"
Peace to one and all and have a great Turkey day.
Bob
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Author: Bottom Line
Date: 2001-11-15 16:19
Even more appropriate for this thread, is an excerpt from that wonderful opera, Othello, which my father insisted we watch when we were mere children, It goes like this:
"Kill the wabbit! Kill the Wabbit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wasn't that Elmer Fudd, to Bugs' Desdemona?
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Author: Roger
Date: 2001-11-15 19:21
No that was Elmer Fudd as Sigfried in the parody on wagner (perhaps the greatest short cartoon ever made!) (Bug Bunny was Brunehilde)
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Author: Bob Rausch
Date: 2001-11-15 19:40
I'll chime in here briefly.
You just need to step back and put things in perspective. I started the post "High Quality Clarinet Cases". Many people gave me some good information and ideas. There was one jerk that made a childish comment about "getting a life", but I just let it go by and not bother me. I just took step and looked at all the positive things people had to say, and just dismissed the jerk's comments.
Simple, Done. On with life an learning.
Bob
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-11-15 20:40
I tried like heck to stay away from this one, but I can't resist it any longer!
Well, I guess Todd W., Bob Gardner and Roger just proved my Uncle "Rebel's" (may he RIP) adage about how "the first liar never wins."
(And as they say in Central Florida, "Don't nobody" go off half cocked, now, I'm only funnin'!)
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Author: Mario
Date: 2001-11-15 20:42
Mark: To your question about opera. Opera is a quaint, amuzing art form whereby singers try to immitate the clarinet by voicing beautiful arias. After all, we do know that the voice, of all instruments, is the one most capable of simulating the clarinet.
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2001-11-15 21:32
Peter--
Or maybe it's that with all of us working together (amicably, as we always do, of course) we'll arrive at some semblance of the truth.
Rob--
Your statement ". . . no matter how valid or important I believe my feelings to
be, . . . . I am their sole custodian, that it is both folly and a recipe for failure and misery to hold others responsible for them" struck a chord with me and made this whole (looooong) thread worth reading. (That and the Looney Tunes posts.) I'm going to print it up and put it where I can see it regularly.
Todd W
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-11-15 21:47
I have been so busy thanking supporters (I've received no less than 63 e-mails from them, some more than one (Hmmm... Maybe the same one all 63 times?)) and ducking "verbal bullets" that I feel like a politician. I've received no e-mail from detractors, and I thank them for their kindness.
As my far away Irish cousins might pray:
"Lord, help those who love us to love us dearly;
Those who do not love us, turn their hearts so they, too, can love us;
And those whose hearts you can't turn, turn their ankles that we may be able to recognize them when we see them coming!"
Now I'll sit and wait for somebody to correct the prayer for me!
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-11-15 23:17
No, Peter--the last line (for all us "black Irishmen") is :
"So we can recognize them byh their limping."
Bob A
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-11-15 23:30
Faith and Begorrah! I just knew there'd have to be at least one wise guy in the bunch!
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-11-16 01:50
Mark--"Opera" is the best browser (smallest, quickest, fastest) and not subject to Microsoft bs attacks.
Bob A
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Author: Carmen Izzo
Date: 2001-11-16 01:51
All I would like to say is that when using the internet, one should understand that they are exposing themselves to people from many locations and many backgrounds and its difficult through this type of communication to interpret what one has to say, especially someone you have never met, so when entering a bulletin board such as this be prepared to face a minion of opinions that will be challenged by what you have to say, because not everyone has these same opinoins as you. So if you are really intent about not wanting to anger someone try your hardest to make sure what you have to say cannot be interpreted wrongly by someone.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2001-11-16 11:54
This is the longest thread since when? Can we make it to 100? Yup, I agree we should all be somewhere else practing our Baermann, but this is almost as much fun as watching Big Brother.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-11-16 12:47
As I think I wrote days ago, we are only offended if we choose to be offended.
It is a self-imposed affliction.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-11-16 20:12
Beejay,
Between the two threads it's 102, as of this posting. Believe it or not, the otherone is still going, as well!
Oy, Vey! (What do you want to bet somebody is going to correct that?)
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Author: beejay
Date: 2001-11-16 23:14
Peter,
You mean there's more? Where? Boy, this is more exciting than a debate about anchor tonguing.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2001-11-19 06:00
Todd W. Posted, 11-15-01 17:35:
> JMcAulay--
> I'll bite. HOW is life like a well?
Hmmmm.
Looks like you've got me there, Todd.
Perhaps it isn't, after all....
Regards,
John
trying to keep things on a high philosophical plane
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2001-11-19 07:03
John (JMcAulay)--
No, I think you may be right: Life is like a well. Can you dig it?
In good humor,
Todd W.
(Putting things on a high philosophical plane is easy. It's getting the ladder through airport security that's hard.)
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-11-19 13:11
Ahhh, yes Todd, but on the other hand, there's still four fingers and a thumb!
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2001-11-19 19:05
Peter--
Verrry good! I never heard that one; I like it. (The version I know is, "On the other hand he had warts," but yours is better.) That's two for you. Another side of the villain of the week? I also liked your line on the other thread: "I had to transfer out or kill them all." I think those people have come to work in my department.
Todd W.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-11-20 14:05
Todd,
Unfortunately, they (or some facsimile there of) still follow mw around everywhere I go!
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Author: Bea Starr
Date: 2001-11-25 21:08
I agree with Dan. Before I starting using this site, I was using a different clarinet bulletin board where I was EXTREMELY verbly abused. I had asked if I was too young to be working on the Mozart concerto, not thinking about how this sort of thing really relies on ability, not age,and one certain individual pounced on me and told me I was way too young and that I would basically "suck" when I got older. Well, if that certain individual and I had thought before we posted on there, it would have saved me from having to undergo hours of my teacher trying to explain that I was ready to do it, an extreme amount of self-doubt, and atleast one box of tissues.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-11-27 17:49
Gee, Bea, there's a great big difference between a young, inexperienced person asking a question such as yours and what transpired here with Dan.
I'm sure nobody on this BB would fault you for your question as to whether you are too young, etc., but for sure and most certainly not me!
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Author: Emms
Date: 2001-11-27 22:53
How did you know Dan wasn't young and inexperienced? See him through your computer?
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-11-29 14:36
Emms,
If you go back and read his first posting, it's either full of implications that he knows the drill, or full of BS and worse. (Besides, a man old enough to take a wife should also be old enough to... (Oh, boy!))
If he is young and inexperienced, he tried hard to hide it, and harder to sound as if he knew what he was talking about.
Big difference.
This onne makes 69!!!
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The Clarinet Pages
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