 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Catherine
Date: 2001-11-13 19:21
My daughter is enrolling in the second band enrollment this year and I need to find a Bb Clarinet for her. I have noticed that some of these instruments are called student clarinets. What is the difference between regular clarinet and a student clarinet? What is the best quality?
I was at the music store and ther were 2 instruments next to each other, one was $250 one $375 and one $600. So obviously there must be some differences between the types. I don't want to leave the decision up to the person behind the counter especially when it looked like it was his afterschool job.
To be completely honest, money is no big issue. I just want to find the perfect instrument for my daughter. Any suggestions on the different makers and types of clarinets would be very helpful.
Thank you for your time.
Catherine
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Author: Vicki (a bass clar. player)
Date: 2001-11-13 20:47
Yes, choosing the right clarinet can be difficult. Questions go through your mind like: Which one is the best quality? Should I get a plastic or wooden one? What's the difference between professional and student? How will this effect my bank account? All of these questions are important and all should be considered. If you know that your daughter is going to practice and get the highest chair she possibly can than get her the best quality. Quality refers not to price per se but to age, previous usage, and brand. LeBlanc, Yamaha, and Buffet are some of the top brands of nonprofessional and professional clarinets whereas Veto is only midgrade to low quality. Don't get me wrong, both my bass and Bb clarinets are Vetos. They work well as student instruaments but I have to be careful because they require a ton of maintainence and they are chronically out of tune. (The '99 model Veto bass clarinet is known for its intonation problems.) But, if you know your daughter might or probably won't practice get her the student instruament. It won't hurt you budjet-wise as much, even though you said price wasn't a problem. Now, about wooden and plastic. They both have their good and bad sides. Wooden clarinets sound better on stage but are prone to cracking in cold weather. If your daughter's band does any marching at all, it would be better to get her plastic. Also, you don't have to just shop at a music store, even though that may seem like a logical choice. Have you tried pawn shops. They sometimes have really good instuaments at low prices. You can also search the internet for good bargains or order one out of an instruament cataloge which you can find at a music store or through the band director. There are lots of options, so don't just try one. Well, I hope I helped you in some way.
Sincerely,
Vicki
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-11-13 21:18
Catherine -
You're correct to be cautious about buying any musical instrument. With regular Bb clarinets you're pretty safe with Buffet, LeBlanc, Selmer and Yamaha (Vito is made by LeBlanc and Bundy is produced by Selmer). I don't know the lesser divisions of Buffet and Yamaha but they're also very good instrument makers. Anything else, for a first time buyer, is taking a risk. And, no, I wouldn't trust the part time counter person either :|
If at all possible, I would suggest taking a Clarinet Teacher or an advanced student Clarinet Player with you to pick out an instrument. Offer to pay for the service. When you purchase the clarinet ask about the store's return and servicing policy. Six months for a reconditioned horn is reasonable. Insist on it.
I've had very positive results overhauling Bundy and Vito clarinets for schools and individual students. Those horns are tough as monkey bars and play well too. Students love 'em and seasoned players regard them as very good 'back up' instruments. Neither horn will drastically dent your bank account, typically selling, reconditioned, for $300 or less. New ones run somewhere in the six to seven hundred dollar neighborhood. Professional model clarinets are in the thousand-plus and up-up-up category 
- ron b-
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-11-13 21:43
The first thing to consider is if the instrument will be used in a marching band, or only in indoor classes.
For marching band she should have a plastic or hard rubber clarinet (Resonite or Ebonite, respectively,) these are what is usually loosely refered to as "(beginner)student's models." There are better student's models made out of wood, and these are usually refered to as "advanced student's models."
These latter ones should not be used in the rough and tumble oudoor world of the marching band, as they cost considerably more money and are more prone to sustain expensive or irreparable damage.
If cost is not a consideration, stick with the "big four" and buy new.
Vito 72XX series; Selmer 100, 1400, 1401 or CL300; Yamaha plastic models(?); or Buffet-Crampon B-12, for the plastic student models. These can run some $375.00 new, give or take a few dollars.
Vito 78XX series; Leblanc Noblet and Normandie; Selmer CL200, CL210 or CL220; Buffet-Crampon E-11; and Yamaha (?) for grenadilla wood, advanced student models. These can run $600.00 to $800.00 new, give or take more than a few dollars.
Don't let anyone talk to you about "list" price. I like to pay no more than 60% of list price and 70% is not unheard of.
"List" or "manufacturer's suggested retail" price is arrived at with one of the "retail math formulas." It is an artificially inflated price nobody would think of paying and which allows retailers to "show" an uninformed client what a deal they are getting.
To give you an idea, as per the retail formulas, mark-up is figured from retail down, not from cost up. So 50% mark-up is really 100% up from cost. This you can't do anything about, but you can do plenty about getting the price down from list.
As far as clarinets go, Yamaha aside, don't buy anything made in the Orient (China, Taiwan, Korea, Malasia, did I miss any? etc.)
The $250.00 clarinet you mention, if new, almost undoubtedly was made in the Orient. The $375.00 one, if new, was probably one of the "big four" plastic student models. The $600.00 one, if new, was likely one of the "advanced student models."
My personal preferences would be the Selmers or Buffet for the student and the Leblanc Noblet or Buffet E-11 (in that order) for the advanced.
Again, if money is no object and she will be in marching band as well as finer indoor (concert band, etc,) band activities, buy her two: One plastic, one wood.
(My son has five: Selmer Bundy which is same as the 1400, Selmer 1401, Buffet B12, Sterling grenadilla, and a Leblanc Noblet.)
The big four will provide your daughter with a better instrument and you with a better resale value, should she not stick with it very long.
Also buy her a decent mouthpiece. Of the readily available "factory made" student mouthpieces, the most common are probaby made by Hite, Vandoren, Selmer, The Woodwind Company, and others whose names I can't bring to mind right now.
The mouthpieces that come with the instruments are usually not very good, but will do for a while if the child can stand it. The thing is that until she plays on a poor mouthpiece for a while and then tries out some better mouthpieces, she won't be able to really appreciate the differences one and the other makes.
But if you can enlist the services of someone in her class (the band director if possible, the woodwinds coach if any) or any family friend who knows the ins and outs of clarinet purchasing, you both will be glad you did.
Someone I heard of recently hired a music teacher (not hers) to go to the store and help her pick out an instrument. As it turned out, the man was was truly a good soul.
He spent the better part of a Saturday with her and her mother, they bought him lunch and fed him supper. Then he didn't charge them for the time he spent with them and they got a decent student horn out of it (they paid for it, of course.)
Reeds are another consideration. If price is not an object of consideration, buy her decent reeds. Stay away from Rico. Zonda(Sp?), Vandoren, Glotin, Marca, etc.
If you have the time to do so, if you are not too sure what to do as you encounter different horns, wait and ask here on the BB, someone (or more) will be able to help you make a decision before you actually buy.
Also read the thread "Brands" a couple of subjects further down the main BB page from this one.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2001-11-14 00:40
Hi Catherine,
If I read your message correctly, your daughter is going to be a new beginner, or has played very little. Also, you don't know alot about clarinets. For a student at this stage and a parent in your position, my recommendation would be a plastic student model from one of the big four manufacturers mentioned above: a Buffet B12 (preferable IMO to the B10), a Selmer CL301 (or 1401), a Leblanc Vito, or a Yamaha YCL20. My personal recommendation is the Buffet B12 because I play one as my "bad weather" instrument and I know its quality but all the others have good reputations. Plastic instruments are lighter in weight than wood. Also, if your daughter becomes serious about the instrument, you can buy a good intermediate or professional model down the road and the plastic instrument will still be valuable as a marching band/outdoor instrument.
Because you have little experience with clarinets, I would recommend you either buy a new instrument or, at least a recent one that a music store with a good reputation will stand behind as being in "best playing condition." (Shiny new instruments are sometimes a good motivator, as well.) You should expect to pay $350 -- $450 for a good student model instrument. If local stores are unwilling to go below $500 or $600 for the models I have mentioned above (new), e-mail me and I will give you contact information for several large mail-order places that will give you a good price. If you know someone who plays clarinet reasonably well (perhaps a teacher at the school), ask them to try out the instrument you buy to make sure that it is set up properly and plays reasonably well. Or take it to a reputable repair person (preferably not connected with the store that sold you the instrument.) You want to be sure the instrument is in good playing condition because a beginner will usually not recognize when probelms she is having are the fault of the equipment and may become frustrated. Most new student instruments should play fine "out of the box" but sometimes a problem slips by quality assurance and sometimes an instrument can develop a problem during shipping.
An entry level wooden instrument is also OK (Buffet E11, Selmer CL201, Leblanc Noblet Model 40 (a better choice IMO than the Normandy) or Yamaha YCL34). Again, IMO, however, the plastic instrument is a better choice for now because of: (1) the fact that the intro level wooden instruments are not much better in quality of workmanship (or design) than their plastic counterparts, (2) the weight, (3) the fact that wooden instruments are prone to cracking problems when used outdoors in cold weather, and (4) the fact that, if she sustains interest in the instrument, your daughter will eventually outgrow her first horn. If you have a plastic student model, you have an instrument that is still useful for marching band or as a bad-weather backup. If you have a wooden student model, you have an instrument that is not of much use and has relatively little resale value.
Whatever instrument you buy for her, I strongly recommend you invest an extra $20 or $30 in a good beginner's mouthpiece. This may be more important to her success than the clarinet you choose. For brand new players, I recommend the Hite Premier. For beginners who have been playing for a little while, the Fobes Debut is also a good choice. (I have played both of these, as did my daughter when she started and can attest to their high quality.) If your music store can't get these, contact me and I will give you contact information for a mail order store that carries them. Do not. I say again, do not, however, buy her a Vandoren B45 if someone recommends that to you. It is far too hard to blow for most beginners and far too often recommended for beginners by people who don't know better.
My last recommendation is that you get to know your daughter's music teacher at school and, if her teacher is a clarinet specialist, ask the teacher for advice on equipment (and any other issues that come up, as well). In this case, you can ignore everything that I (and anyone else on the bulletin board) has suggested -- except the bit about the B45 ;^).
Best regards,
jnk
St. Louis
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Author: willie
Date: 2001-11-14 04:21
I agree with staying with the big 4 for a first time purchase. For ease of maintainance and a posibility of future marching band use, I recommend going with a plastic model. Also a better mouthpiece than the original. Even a high dollar horn comes with a lousy mouthpiece, but I can't recommend any certain brand or model as that is something you will have to experiment with and try different ones as we all have different chops, horns, reeds etc. that all play a big factor in finding that perfect mouthpiece. This is what clarinetist refer to as the "Search for the Holy Graille", finding the right set up. Be careful to avoid the tons of Chineese clarinets being dumped on the market. They are even using fancy French and German names on them now and they are, from what I,ve seen, pure junk. Most techs won't even work on them as they are so poorly made. Parts are practicaly non-existant. Have someone test it now and then (including the day of purchase) to make sure it is playing properly. I've seen too many kids quit band thinking they had no talent, when all a long the problem was their instrument.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2001-11-14 06:45
Quick and Dirty Summary:
1 - Plastic is best for a beginner for any number of reasons that you've seen above. Sticking with Buffet, Vito, Selmer and Yamaha is also a very good move.
2 - Since all this is new to you, I would suggest getting the instrument in a rental program at your local music store. Don't get too worried about a 'deal.' If your daughter takes to the instrument, you can still save money with an early payoff. Get her the horn that works best for her.
3 - Buffet has a B-12, which is very nice. They also have a B-10 which is cheaper in price, and problematic in certain respects. Always go for th e B-12, and resist the B-10.
4 - The size of the tone holes often makes a difference in young girls. Selmers (formerly Bundys) have the largest that I'm aware of, and this often causes problems for young girls with small hands and fingers.
I believe that each of the other three brands are much better in this respect. The Buffet B-12 is particuarly good, and I own one myself for the purpose of testing prospective young students.
I show a bias here towards the Buffet B-12 mostly because of my negative experiences with Selmers in young girls, and my lack of experience with Vitos and Yamahas. I've heard that the Vito's are pretty good.
I would definitely avoid the cheaper Jupiters, Winstons, etc. I have received good reports on the Bueschers, but have yet to play one myself.
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Author: Catherine
Date: 2001-11-15 21:51
Thank you all for your input. You have definately broadend my horizons, I would have had no idea that the mouth piece made such a big difference. This weekend I will search for a clarinet with my daughter and if I have and questions or if something seems "too good to be true" then I will return for more feedback!
Once again, I appreciate all of you taking your time to help us out!
Catherine
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Author: Azzacca
Date: 2001-11-16 13:59
Depending on where you go, you should also be able to get some advice from the sales person.
If your daughter already has a teacher, you could also ask for his/her input on what is suggested for your daughter.
And not to be a "basher", I would avoid stores called "Music-go-round" they tend to charge too much IMHO
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Author: Catherine
Date: 2001-12-15 07:31
This is Catherine the "Band Mom" I would like to thank all of you for your help. I bought a Buffet B 12 with a Vandoren mouth piece. Caity's band instructor said she seems to be having the easiest time catching on to her new instrument, I am pretty certain to me that it was having knowledge of the better instruments to get her that made it easier for her!
Again thank you all for taking the time to help me out!
Catherine
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Author: Mike
Date: 2002-02-15 14:34
I wish I had a mom like you. Maybe she'll by me a pair of Buffet Vintages
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