 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2026-08-12 04:28
A couple of years ago, I think during COVID, I tried making the transition to double lip embouchure (from single lip.)
I liked how the change gave me more control during softer play. I feel like my sound is better using it, although it may be all in my head, as I think I can get pretty close to the same sound using the principles I learned playing this way, to single lip play as possible.
The transition was slow. Boy did the inside of my upper lip hurt, it not having the necessary thickness as the inside of my lower lip did from years of single lip play. But eventually, that pain went away.
What didn't go away though is face muscle fatigue. While I can play longer stinks double lip than months ago, I have to stop and take a break or switch to single lip, where such limitations aren't present.
In an effort to build up these muscles outside of play I acquired Yehuda Gilad's Wind-o product https://www.thewind-o.com/, but what I seek is something that more targets these (buccinator) muscles.
In my opinion the side wings of the Wind-o don't come out far enough to maximize the buccinator training I seek.
TIA
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Author: Alexey
Date: 2026-08-12 13:58
I think the best way to develop the embouchure, whether single or double, is simply to play the clarinet. Long tones and intervals are probably more useful for this purpose than just playing pieces and etudes.
The thing is that playing the clarinet requires us to develop and coordinate quite a lot of muscles that pull and push in different directions at the same time. At the same time, the embouchure needs to remain flexible so that it can adjust to changes in register and dynamics.
I don't think there is a device, or even a combination of devices, that can reproduce all of these aspects of playing.
In fact, if we want to work on the embouchure but can't play the clarinet for some reason, I sometimes think that simply forming a proper embouchure and blowing through it may be more useful than using any device.
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Author: GoldhawkRoad
Date: 2026-08-12 17:10
This might be a similar product, but I remember reading Larry Guy's Embouchure book, and in it he mentions a device that works the embouchure muscles. He tells you where to buy it as well. I used it for a bit. I don't remember if I found it so helpful or not, but if you're curious, I'd point you towards that book; regardless it's an interesting read.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2026-08-12 19:29
SecondTry wrote:
> A couple of years ago, I think during COVID, I tried making the
> transition to double lip embouchure (from single lip.)
>
> What didn't go away though is face muscle fatigue. While I can
> play longer stinks double lip than months ago, I have to stop
> and take a break or switch to single lip, where such
> limitations aren't present.
IMO, the most important part of double-lip is the support you're providing for the clarinet. It's more critical than with single-lip, where there's no soft tissue under the upper teeth. The pain in your lip, unless you're biting fairly hard, comes mostly from the weight of the clarinet causing the mouthpiece beak to press against the upper lip. You can hold the instrument up with your R.H. thumb, use a neckstrap, or sit and support the instrument on your knee. You may unconsciously be using the facial muscles to minimize the direct pressure against your upper lip. If you can use other means (RH, strap, knee) to hold the clarinet up, the facial muscles only need to control the reed, which involves much less effort.
So, I don't think you need so much to build the buccinators. I think you probably need to figure out how to take the clarinet's weight off them.
Karl
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Author: kilo
Date: 2026-08-13 13:23
Quote:
You can hold the instrument up with your R.H. thumb...
This makes me curious. I learned to play single-lip and my first and only clarinet instructor, who was a pretty accomplished professional musician as well as a teacher, was adamant about "pushing up". I'd be struggling with some exercise and if my tone weakened he'd tell me to "push up." I can still hear it, nearly 70 years later!
I don't know who his original instructor was and double-lip was never mentioned. He did move me into the Langenus studies as soon as I was able, however, and Langenus was a double-lip proponent. Many years ago someone on this BBoard mentioned "pushing up" as a long-discarded pedagogical technique but this discussion makes me suspect that it may have been connected with proper development of these facial muscles.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2026-08-13 17:22
Hi SecondTry. I had to look up buccinator muscle.
Like you, I switched to double lip. Buccinator fatigue hasn't occurred, and I don't think I use those muscles except in a light and passive way. In my ingrown world, the lips seem to provide some minimal pressure up and down to prevent air leakage, and the jaw muscles do most of the rest, again minimally. All the other muscles mostly just take up slack enough that they can vibrate. This description is probably simplistic and inaccurate, but anyway, what happens if you just relax the buccinators, or at least reduce their effort?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2026-08-13 18:41
kilo wrote:
> Many years ago someone on this BBoard mentioned
> "pushing up" as a long-discarded pedagogical technique but this
> discussion makes me suspect that it may have been connected
> with proper development of these facial muscles.
I would think, with no other information than your post, that he was talking about pushing upward under the thumbrest with your right thumb to support the clarinet's weight and keep it from pulling the lips down, away from the teeth. It's still a "valid" pedagogical point, but I suspect most instrumental music teachers who aren't well-taught clarinetists skip mentioning it, either because they weren't taught to do it or because, as trumpet players or drummers, they don't really understand its importance.
Karl
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2026-08-13 20:20
So..
Karl, I took your advice and began using my neck strap. The one I use is elastic, which I like, because it takes weight off the instrument but still allows freedom of movement in all directions, including, need be, distancing the clarinet ever so slightly beyond the limits of an adjustable length strap that once its length is set, has minimal expandability it its fabric.
You may be correct that my buccinator (i.e. side mouth) muscles were fatiguing from not simply their grip on the mouthpiece from the sides, but stabilizing the clarinet.
Of course my top inner lip began to hurt but that's addressable with a top tooth guard.
It's my hope to be able to play double lip not only with no support but my right thumb, as I do single lip, but even standing up.
Of course...baby steps, let me work with the neckstrap for a while to train my face for longer durations of double lip play.
I seem to think, and it may be a foo's paradise, that I sound better playing double lip. I really need to run some blind comparisons of my sound with fellow playing friends I trust for their opinion. I don't think it simply in my head though that better control of pianissimo play comes for me with this lips only embouchure. 
Kilo: I seem to recall Tom Ridenour in one of his videos snuging up on the mouthpiece when playing double lip on higher notes: a feat achieved by pushing up with the right thumb.
Funny, I seem to recall reading that even when Harold Wright soloed, a double lip player, he did so sitting down.
I also seem to recall that you, Karl, are also one of the few remaining players here who play double lip.
Thanks.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2026-08-13 20:22
So..
Karl, I took your advice and began using my neck strap. The one I use is elastic, which I like, because it takes weight off the instrument but still allows freedom of movement in all directions, including, need be, distancing the clarinet ever so slightly beyond the limits of an adjustable length strap that once its length is set, has minimal expandability it its fabric.
You may be correct that my buccinator (i.e. side mouth) muscles were fatiguing from not simply their grip on the mouthpiece from the sides, but stabilizing the clarinet.
Of course my top inner lip began to hurt when using the neckstrap (maybe because I could play longer durations) but that's addressable with a top tooth guard.
It's my hope to be able to play double lip some day not only with no support but my right thumb, as I do single lip, but even standing up.
Of course...baby steps, let me work with the neckstrap for a while to train my face for longer durations of double lip play.
I seem to think, and it may be a foo's paradise, that I sound better playing double lip. I really need to run some blind comparisons of my sound with fellow playing friends I trust for their opinion. I don't think it simply in my head though that better control of pianissimo play comes for me with this lips only embouchure.
Kilo: I seem to recall Tom Ridenour in one of his videos snugging up on the mouthpiece when playing double lip on higher notes: a feat achieved by pushing up with the right thumb.
Funny, I seem to recall reading that even when Harold Wright soloed, a double lip player, he did so sitting down.
I also seem to recall that you, Karl, are also one of the few remaining players here who play double lip.anks.
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