 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2026-07-25 21:10
Yes, it's a double entendre on mouthpiece, I'd like to think credit for which goes to Jon Manasse, who in fairness and potential conflict of interest is a Vandoren artist, playing both their reeds mouthpieces, and ligatures, etc.
The adage, "mouth peace of mind" derives itself from the following notion, which you can choose to agree with (in part) or not.....that paraphrases Jon I believe, much that I can't find the internet reference:
'Vandoren makes so many different mouthpieces that the player is apt to find, from stock, one that fits the vast majority of their needs, such that, heaven forbid, if something happens to that mouthpiece--seeing that it's not custom made--the player simply goes out and purchases another of that model.'
This post is inspired by a recent one that talks of mouthpiece refinishing.
With this said, do you think that a mouthpiece refinisher, albeit for the most discriminating of players, adds enough value over some stock mouthpiece that it justifies having less mouth peace of mind over a stock mouthpiece that gets you 95%+ of the way there, that can be interchanged more easily?
The adage need not, of course, solely apply to Vandoren. If say, Clark Fobes, or Brad Behn, or whoever has a popular "stock" mouthpiece the question here no less applies. And I suppose "stock" is a relative term as even such mouthpieces might be subject to small amounts of work prior to sale.
And sure, Vandoren (manufacturers in general) discontinues mouthpieces now and then, witness the Masters series (e.g. CL1, CL2), so there's that.
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Author: farabout
Date: 2026-07-25 23:39
There's nothing special about Vandoren mouthpieces. Ditto for their reeds & ligs.
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Author: Chris Sereque
Date: 2026-07-26 00:29
If you are a Vandoren artist, you can try out hundreds of mouthpieces, and find truly excellent ones, and take them to a mouthpiece refinisher to further enhance their qualities. What's not to like?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2026-07-26 03:11
As an older fella, I find it odd that Vandoren mouthpieces get "dingged" as much as they do. Back in the day the constancy was not present there at all but you could still find a really good.......let's say 5RV Lyre or B45 if you tried three or four at your local music store. Today I find the quality is good enough to trust the first one out of the box.
That said it IS great to find a flavor of Vandoren you like for the replaceable factor. I also top out at about three hundred dollars for a mouthpiece so it doesn't matter to me how great a four hundred dollar mouthpiece might play. I'll stick within my mental limit.
.........Paul Aviles
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2026-07-26 03:56
farabout wrote:
> There's nothing special about Vandoren mouthpieces. Ditto for
> their reeds & ligs.
This was the actual question in short:
Is the cost and difficulty in replicability worth the performance gain from mouthpiece customization?
In my description of Vandoren mouthpieces getting the player "95% there," I hoped to convey them to be very good, not special as you say, like maybe some rare find original Chedeville or Lelandais mouthpiece.
In fact nothing about this thread really sought to single out Vandoren, or portray them as "the" premiere mouthpiece maker or even the premiere stock mouthpiece maker.
I thought I made that clear when I named other strong mouthpiece competitors in my OP.
Rather, in Vandoren providing considerable mouthpiece variety, such that most players can find something they like (if not love) stock among their offerings, and with said stock, the ability to more readily and affordably find a replacement mouthpiece need be, I sought people's opinion in whether custom mouthpieces, given not only their expense but difficulty in reproducing (and that customization could be on some stock mouthpiece or not) tends to be worth it.
I know "posts go where they go" but to single Vandoren mouthpieces out, let alone their ligatures and reeds is off point. Nobody claimed Vandoren mouthpieces as something special.
So, would people rather a mouthpiece that's easier to replace that gets you 95% of the way there or is customization that worth it to them that cost and difficulty in reproducing is worth it?
If mouthpieces are like reeds, as more players opt for synthetics, I'm wondering if reliability trumps that holy grail mouthpiece nobody can recreate.
I also spoke before about discontinued mouthpieces. I once played a now discontinued Vandoren Masters mouthpiece for a while, but was able to find other Vandoren models to replace it that while different, I did not consider subordinate, all pros and cons considered.
Much that I don't wish to climb down this rabbit hole with you, I don't hold much regard for the otherwise not mentioned by me ligature market adding much value, although I do use a Vandoren M/O because its double thread makes getting reeds on and off faster.
As for their or any maker's reeds: I tend to see reeds like a woodworker sees lumber at a big box store: like some starting point raw material that first needs to be jointed and planed, or the case of clarinet reeds, sanded for strength and balance.
I think Vandoren uses good cane, as I believe several other manufacturers, who se reed products I switch around use of, do as well.
Post Edited (2026-07-26 03:58)
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Author: farabout
Date: 2026-07-26 06:08
De gustibus non est disputandum. Or, as Vandorians would say: à chacun son goût.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2026-07-26 18:02
farabout wrote:
> De gustibus non est disputandum. Or, as Vandorians would say:
> à chacun son goût.
Let's translate.
The first sentence says in English: there is no arguing about tastes, the second, to each their own taste.
Great; also irrelevant.
Nobody said you're not entitled to your opinion. What was said is that your opinion is off topic and not one that anyone otherwise differed with.
The question was whether custom mouthpieces are worth it given their cost to make and potential difficulty to reproduce. No vendor's stock mouthpieces were claimed special for you to offer dissent; it's not even relevant.
Let me offer an analogy: somebody goes on a forum and says, "I like shopping at Harbor Freight for screw drivers. If one breaks you get a new one for $3.25. It may not do what one from PB Swiss Tools does but it costs 1/3 as much."
Then you reply, "I like ice cream," defending it as opinion.
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Author: brycon
Date: 2026-07-27 03:33
Quote:
So, would people rather a mouthpiece that's easier to replace that gets you 95% of the way there or is customization that worth it to them that cost and difficulty in reproducing is worth it?
I don't think many professionals are playing Vandorens and thinking they're getting them only 95% of the way there. Indeed, I've played a number of vintage mouthpieces and custom pieces and don't like the way they play nearly as much as a B40 lyre. With my preferences for color, intonation, blowing, etc., the B40 lyre works; for some other people, with other preferences, maybe a Behn mouthpiece works. I think people just pick what works for them, and, if it happens to be a Vandoren, it's a value add that they're super easy to replace.
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Author: Chris Sereque
Date: 2026-07-27 04:14
"If" is the reason I learned to be my own mouthpiece adjuster! Others have more skill but less patience and time to actually get things right. Mouthpiece work takes practice and time and you can buy tons of "junque" mouthpieces on ebay to experiment on.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2026-07-27 20:02
brycon :
The original quote was 95%+ of the way there, and my reference to that plus sign is more than pedantic. It seeks to ask:
What level, if any, of deviation from the optimal mouthpiece for a player, might be tolerated in exchange for reproducibility of that mouthpiece need be, factoring in not simply the difficulty of hand reproduction, but cost.
> I don't think many professionals are playing Vandorens and
> thinking they're getting them only 95% of the way there.
I don't think, like me, you seek to single out Vandoren given your reference to Behn as well. As mentioned, I only referenced Vandoren given the breath of different offerings they make available, (and therefore the greater chance that something they make stock will meet a player's expectation without refacing,) and the large number of players using their mouthpieces, refinished or not.
I agree that someone experienced who finds a mouthpiece deficient, particular from something else they played, might seek other options, especially when the degree of shortcoming is large enough. And those options could range from further stock mouthpiece shopping, to stock mouthpiece refacing, to boutique mouthpiece purchase.
But modern clarinet players have also proven to show some degree of pragmatism in their play. For example, many have switched to or on occasion substituted synthetic reeds for cane, fully admitting that such substitutes aren't as good as their best wood reed, but that other factors such as consistency of play out of the box or in variable weather, or the costs of the alternative, including that of their time in all the aspects of bringing cane into performance condition enter into the calculus.
Then again, that's reeds, not mouthpieces. But the good clarinetist is nothing but someone who balances tradeoffs, be they equipment, intonation, or 100 other competing variables.
> I think people just pick what works for them.
I do too, but I suspect my definition of "works" may differ from yours. I think you may be saying that "works" means the best mouthpiece, full stop. I'm suggesting that "works" may also factors in things like cost and reproducibility.
~~~~~~~~~~~
And farabout, first you claim, completely off point, a particular manufacturer's mouthpieces nothing special, then you fully endorse the idea that not only some professional play them, but wouldn't do so if they delivered anything but the best for them.
So I guess its you and some others who feel Vandoren mouthpieces nothing special, which is your right to feel, just as others may feel differently, much that this was never about them, but rather the tradeoffs between stock affordable and ubiquitous mouthpieces, and custom ones that may take us further but at the cost of replicability and manufacture. What value was added? Was it not already known that not everyone loves one particularly makers mouthpieces, let alone their other clarinet gear?
(Conflict of interest. I play Vandoren mouthpieces, there's only two I like for me, I'd gladly switch if I found something I liked more, and make no money from any vendor's sales.)
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2026-07-27 23:48
Many years ago, a prominent Hungarian clarinetist visited the Vandoren showroom in Paris. His goal was simple: to hand-pick a few B40 mouthpieces directly from the source.
He was shown a table with around thirty B40s to try. Some were decent, some were better, some were worse, but nothing particularly surprising.
Then he noticed another B40 lying by itself on a different table, almost as if someone had absent-mindedly left it there.
He tried it.
Within a few seconds, he knew he had found something extraordinary. Compared to every other B40 he had just played, it was in a completely different league.
When the representative returned and asked whether he had found anything he liked, he replied, "Yes, this one. It's incredible."
The representative immediately looked at the mouthpiece in his hand, took it back, and simply said, "I'm sorry, that one isn't for sale. I can bring you another thirty."
The next batch arrived.
None of them came close.
So, if you think the world's leading Vandiren artists simply walk into a shop and the only difference is that they can pick from a bigger selection... well, I have my doubts.
Mark Szavin
🎵mouthpiece specialist🎵
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Author: Alexey
Date: 2026-07-28 12:20
I’m not entirely convinced by the argument above. I’ve listened to many Vandoren artists (as well as players using Gleichweit, Backun, Licostini, and other setups) who have a good sound, but not necessarily anything exceptional, and only a few whose sound I would describe as truly beautiful and distinctive.
If a carefully crafted and specially selected mouthpiece made a dramatic difference, we would probably hear many more players with truly outstanding sounds. To me, the more reasonable conclusion is that the sound comes primarily from the player rather than the mouthpiece.
That’s why I think we may sometimes place too much emphasis on equipment and fall into gear-acquisition syndrome ( I am definitely in this category), constantly searching for the “perfect” mouthpiece when the biggest factor is likely elsewhere.
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Author: farabout
Date: 2026-07-28 18:21
Given that every player's embouchure is constantly evolving due to age-related dental, muscular, and dermal+mucosal elasticity changes (plus any dental work), who in their right mind would stick to the same Vandoren (or any other brand) mpc model until the cows come home?
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