 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2025-09-03 21:20
In my opinion, the discussion of ligatures consumes a disproportionate amount of space relative to positive changes that the right ligature can have on performance.
Before anyone breathes fire down my neck for making this statement I wish to make the following observations:
* By no means am I saying all ligatures are alike. First, there's crap and non-crap, crap being defined as a device that mechanically fails to reliable secure the reed with relative ease of application and removal.
* Then, within the realm of non-crap there are certainly subtleties based on materials, craftsmanship, method of attachment, type of reed being played, and a dozen other attributes that maybe if I were a better player, that only then would I have the refinement to appreciate.
* People should absolutely feel free to discuss and use whatever device they like to affix their reed. That is their right and not my business to challenge.
The only reason for my post is the curiosity that this topic has for me on a psychological level and what I see as the disproportionate discussion of same relative to its impact.
FWIW I posed this question, whose wording is both my own and imperfect, to two AI engines and linked their response. I concede that the very nature of the way I posed my question can present bias in the answer.
https://iask.ai/q/clarinet-ligature-impact-discussion-e8da1s0
https://chatgpt.com/ "Why does something that has as little effect on clarinet play like the ligature choice consume so much of a player's discussion relative to the small impact it has on play?"
I admit that one of my favorite explanations from the engines above was
"...the ligature is one of the few components of the clarinet setup that is relatively inexpensive and easily interchangeable, allowing for frequent experimentation without significant financial commitment. "
Thoughts?
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Author: Ed
Date: 2025-09-03 22:26
I agree that the phrasing can shape the response you will get. It is much like the old joke of asking someone "do you still beat your wife?" The premise already makes certain assumptions.
I have played around with more than my share of ligatures over the years, in part because I find it fascinating. Ligatures are by no means the most important part of the equation. In many cases the difference between ligatures may not be anything that most listeners will hear. It is often very subtle.
In my experience, the ligature can affect the response and the feel by the player. There is also a slight difference in the harmonics that one might hear from the set up and reed. Again, not sure that it can be heard by many listeners, BUT it may affect how the player and the comfort might be detected by the listener.
Thinking of using the ligature as a way to fine tune the mouthpiece-reed-ligature equation is valuable. Some ligatures naturally seem to dampen response which may be great for a brighter or more responsive mouthpiece. Similarly, some ligatures are very responsive and lively, which may help a more covered type of mouthpiece.
These days there are a crazy number of ligatures on the market at all price points and made of endless materials. It is best not to get too crazy or spend too much given the small effect, but it is worth exploring.
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Author: hans
Date: 2025-09-04 00:58
I liked AI's comment: "The pursuit of marginal gains is a common phenomenon in highly refined technical fields, where even small advantages can be sought after". That would seem to justify experimentation.
Maybe we could also ask AI what the optimum torque should be for consistency in tightening our ligature screw(s)? My dentist has a tiny torque wrench for installing implants; maybe there is a business opportunity for its manufacturer to market it to clarinet players....
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Author: Erez Katz
Date: 2025-09-04 05:28
Gains could be very well be marginal in the end result - i.e. listener's ears.
The end result is not only what matters. In order to get to the end result, there are the investments of cost, time, energy (physical, mental, emotional) and those investments needs to be managed like any other investment.
If someone feels they get a better response or that there is some sort of an ergonomic advantage, then those are not objective matters - rather highly subjective and as such, if it makes someone feel happy/happier -then there is little wrong with it.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2025-09-04 05:54
SecondTry,
When you wrote: "In my opinion, the discussion of ligatures consumes a disproportionate amount of space relative to positive changes that the right ligature can have on performance", with all due respect to you, I couldn't disagree with you more. Actually, I wish we had more ligature discussions.
The keyword in your opinion that caught my eye was "performance."
So, I did what I usually do and that is I used my personal search engine and asked "Can a particular clarinet ligature make a significant difference in performance?" and I found an old BB thread from 2016 entitled "Do ligatures really matter at all?"
Wow...what an education it was for me to read through that entire thread!
Here it is: http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=440263&t=440263
The opinions by Ken Shaw (RIP), David Spiegelthal and especially Mojo were very enlightening to me.
I hope that some of you will read this thread.
I truly believe you won't be disappointed.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2025-09-04 06:11
Dan Shusta wrote:
> SecondTry,
>
> When you wrote: "In my opinion, the discussion of ligatures
> consumes a disproportionate amount of space relative to
> positive changes that the right ligature can have on
> performance", with all due respect to you, I couldn't disagree
> with you more. Actually, I wish we had more ligature
> discussions.
I'm not sure if you feel that discussion of ligatures fails to be disproportional to their importance, or phrased slightly differently, ligature discussion is proportional or under-discussed for their importance, or maybe and simply, that you wished we talked about ligatures more.
Regardless of which one or more of these, or yet some other way of describing it is your cup of tea, it's all good by me.
I hold the belief that their relative importance is small compared to how much we talk about them, particularly compared to other factors that matter more or no less, not that they don't matter.
But I have no problem with their discussion. Everyone likes to talk about gear regardless of whether it's, depending on forum, clarinets or car polish...so the discussion..."I get it."
>
> The keyword in your opinion that caught my eye was
> "performance."
>
> So, I did what I usually do and that is I used my personal
> search engine and asked "Can a particular clarinet ligature
> make a significant difference in performance?" and I found an
> old BB thread from 2016 entitled "Do ligatures really matter at
> all?"
>
> Wow...what an education it was for me to read through that
> entire thread!
>
Thanks for the reference. I completely get that if a ligature gives the player more of what their looking for, even it its in their head, then even that's enough, even if no difference is sound is detected by the audience.
And of course, whether ligatures matter at all is a very different question from whether they are discussed in proportion to their importance (to the player.)
By way of a somewhat mediocre analogy, earthquakes and the death they cause (ligatures) certainly matter, but if we are talking about them so much more than say heart disease (some other aspect of clarinet play that has more bearing on ability than ligatures,) which takes far more lives than earthquakes, are we spending too much time worrying about the ground shaking versus our diet, exercise, and overall health?
Again, talk reed straps to your heart's content. I'm simply being the arm chair observer of behavior here intrigued by how much air time the topic seems to get over other factors that may matter more and get talked about less...or not.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2025-09-04 16:30
Torque is a valid discussion. For Legere reeds it is a bit easier to get this right by testing how easily the reed can be nudged to and fro. For me it is best when the reed can be moved side to side but with some healthy resistance. If one experiments with the results (sound, response), then you can clearly define a result based measure of the "right torque for you."
One other thing that is becoming more obvious as the years go by is that we adjust our playing parameters to achieve the sound ideal as we perceive it. The key factors involved are how much embouchure "pressure" one exerts vs. the amount of air you use per each particular note, in its specific register, at a given dynamic. So we all have unique parameters that are then affected in unique ways by the introduction of a new piece of gear. THIS is why recommending a specific piece of gear for a certain result is a lost cause. We all (unfortunately for those looking for certainty) must find our own solutions. But on the bright side, it does help to know that there are those of us finding certain results with certain gear and thus we can then be hopeful of finding our own revelations (not a BG reference). And OF COURSE, if you have found contentment with all your your current gear and technique......LET IT RIDE !!!!!
..............Paul Aviles
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