 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2025-03-27 04:24
I warm up. I tune. Throat tones almost spot-on in-tune.
Then I play in the upper clarion. Twenty cents sharp. I pull out. Throat tones now flat.
Now I just say eff it and swab the instrument and just put it back in the case.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David H. Kinder
Date: 2025-03-27 04:48
I was going to ask if you thought you had a 'face for radio'? lol.
I get it. I've been playing quite flat lately, so I just ordered a 64mm barrel. Hopefully that'll do the trick for me.
Ridenour AureA Bb clarinet
Vandoren BD5 HD 13-series mouthpiece
Vandoren Optimum Silver ligature (plate 1)
Vandoren #4 Blue-box reeds
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2025-03-27 04:58
Sounds like you are using "throat tension" to focus your sound rather than "fast/concentrated/focused air". Do you also get a lot of "grunt" when articulating in the clarion left hand notes and altisimo?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2025-03-27 06:28
I would advise to just be relaxed. The quandary with clarinet tuning is two fold. Firstly, as students or just those of us with stage anxiety, we tend to tense up, bite, put unnecessary energy into the embouchure. The tuning is of course easier (bigger adjustments) going lower by loosening up. So you ideally need “pitch headroom” (ability to move up in pitch) as well as the ability to play lower on the fly. The ONLY way that is possible is to have a slightly relaxed embouchure to start so that YOUR PITCH is kinda in the middle. Of course many clarinetists get away with being scrunched up at the top of their tuning, but I find this to be far from ideal.
……….Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: RefacerMan
Date: 2025-03-27 17:17
A barrel with a reverse taper like a Moennig barrel will help bring down the upper 12ths. What kind of clarinet are you playing and what kind of barrel?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2025-03-27 23:47
RefacerMan wrote:
> A barrel with a reverse taper like a Moennig barrel will help
> bring down the upper 12ths.
As I remember, this was the main reason for the taper. Moennig worked mostly with Buffets and they consistently had too wide twelfths at the top of the clarinet.
> What kind of clarinet are you
> playing and what kind of barrel?
You still need to experiment a little to find a barrel with the right taper. Moennig designed the reverse taper to overcome a problem with Buffets, mostly R-13s of the 1950s through the end of his working career. I find that the tuning and response are better with Chaddash Moennig-style barrels on my 10G clarinets (which were adaptations of R-13s) than actual Moennig-Buffet barrels.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2025-03-28 04:28
Articulations sound normal with no grunt. Christ, those barrels are expensive. I don't see any taper, it looks the same as the stock barrel.
Setup is a 1997 R-13 B♭, B45, Gonzalez FOF #3, stock barrel, metal ligature.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2025-03-28 12:05
Exactly which throat notes are flat? And which upper clarion notes are sharp? By how much?
There are Apps (I like RTTA tuner) which will produce a chart while you play showing the average tuning of each note.
It would be good to know what the exact tuning issues are in order to figure out what can be done. We might yet get you into show business! :-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2025-03-29 08:52
So is it not a linear relationship? Like say you're 15 cents sharp on an open G and you pull out and get it tune. Then all the other notes don't go down exactly 15 cents?
And how is a barrel of all things going to help with that?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2025-03-29 15:02
No, not linear, relative.
Shorter tube notes are affected to a greater degree than long tube notes.
You are correct, the barrel is not the problem, it is the approach.
............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2025-03-30 09:26
Well that's kinda what we do.
There is no "locking in" to pitch. No instrument is perfectly in tune, nor is the approach to a single note constant across all dynamics.
............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2025-03-30 23:54
Johnny Galaga,
You've been dealing with this problem for almost 14 years.
Honestly, I'm not trying to embarrass you. I just can't figure out why this problem you're still having wasn't resolved a long time ago.
https://www.woodwindforum.com/forum/index.php?threads/clarion-is-sharp-but-throat-tones-are-flat.23127/
Almost 14 years ago, you tried different mouthpieces. I just don't understand what seems to be your reluctance to try a Moennig (tapered) barrel other than the price.
Would you help me and others to understand?
Thanks.
p.s. Have you tried alternate fingerings? They help by lengthening the short tube notes thus reducing sharpness.
Post Edited (2025-03-31 00:06)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2025-03-31 03:57
Johnny Galaga wrote:
> So I basically have to be constantly lipping stuff up and down?
That sounds so petulant!
You make it sound like a curse that will haunt the rest of your playing life.
Yes, you always need to be adjusting to the pitch environment of the moment. No piece of equipment will produce perfect intonation on all notes in all physical and musical settings. It's part of playing well. It isn't any more of an imposition than having to be constantly moving your fingers to play the notes.
Just get on with it and try to enjoy the result.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2025-03-31 05:35
Karl and Paul,
I feel like I understand Johnny's confusion. If you look at most of the topics on the bboard, we seldom address this fact.
On the other hand, we frequently see discussions about clarinets which are "in tune" with themselves, and picking the right reed/mouthpiece evening out the 12ths, etc.
Other discussions talk about keeping the embouchure consistent. Etc.
Am I being too naive in thinking that a visitor to the forum (even a long term one...?especially? a long term one) might get the impression that something is wrong if they're having to adjust things frequently to stay in pitch?
An honest question...no ill intent meant either way.
Warmest Regards,
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
