 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: S.Takuto
Date: 2024-12-02 12:59
The E.F of the first line of the staff on the latest buffet clarinets seems very low.
My Tradition is also very low here and very problematic for orchestral use.
Many of the new buffet instruments besides my own have a low E.F pitch, and even when played by players other than myself, the pitch is low.
The repairman I am working with often deals with buffets that have this problem, and he tries to improve it somehow by enlarging the key openings, but it does not solve the fundamental problem.
Suppressing the Cis/Gis key or Es/B key along with E.F while playing is the solution for now.
Are there any players out there with similar problems?
If so, how are you trying to solve it?
I didn't really feel this way with my instrument a while ago. It feels like the design has been fundamentally rethought.
We tried to control the pitch with barrels and mouthpieces, but it didn't work very well.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-12-02 17:25
I'm pretty sure I saw a Divine a few years back where ![[E4]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/e4.gif) on that was noticeably flat.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: donald
Date: 2024-12-02 18:43
Almost every clarinet I've ever played has this problem to a greater or lesser extent. At least half of them, to a greater extent. My 1980s Yamaha Custom had it just as much as my 1998 R13 and my 2004 Festival. My lovely pair of Herbert Wurlitzer RB clarinets had this problem at least as much as the Buffets. It's a product of the acoustics of the clarinet, can be moderated (but this usually causes another problem elsewhere on the clarinet) and either results in a sharp high B/C, a flat E/F (or the top end being a bit sharp and the low end being a bit flat).
I remember meeting a US college professor (and very excellent player as many are) about 20 years ago who was touring performing with a reed trio, and somehow this came up in discussion. She told me she actually plays her scales using the C#/G# key for lower register E, something I have since done now and again.
I think I first used that fingering (E sharpened with C#/G#) when I was about 15 or 16 years old playing in the local symphony and having to hold an E in unison with an oboe player with perfect pitch....
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Author: donald
Date: 2024-12-02 18:45
BTW last time I tried out Yamaha CSG clarinets, the two samples I played both had this issue, as did the Buffet Tosca A clarinet I owned for a while. I struggle to remember maybe 2 clarinets I've ever played that didn't have this issue.
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Author: mozartklar
Date: 2024-12-02 19:26
I had this same issue on both of my Prestige R-13 B-flats...my solution was to use a 65mm barrel. It improved the pitch of the throat tone E/F and was an overall improvement. Just be aware that other notes are also affected by using a shorter barrel. Use tuning rings, especially in the middle joint to help even things out.
It also bears mentioning that your mouthpiece of choice will also affect pitch. I've been on an M30Lyre "13" series and the 65mm barrel helps.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-12-03 00:13
Undercutting the two tone holes solved the problem for me, without affecting the corresponding high B and C.
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Author: David Eichler
Date: 2024-12-03 02:04
"Undercutting the two tone holes solved the problem for me, without affecting the corresponding high B and C." Aren't the tone holes already undercut on a professional Buffet? Don't you mean that you had additional undercutting done? Anyway, I don't see how you can modify a clarinet tone hole and not affect both corresponding pitches of the 12th. However, on clarinet it is generally easier to bring a sharp note down with embouchure adjustment than to bring a flat note up.
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Author: S.Takuto
Date: 2024-12-03 05:48
Thank you all.
It is a relief to hear stories of similar problems.
This problem certainly seems to be a common problem with clarinets, but it is especially easy to feel on more recent instruments.
Instruments from a while ago often had a higher pitch when the register key was pressed.
I didn't feel it was too much of a problem because I could correct for the high pitch, but today's instruments are too low on the EF as a result of the correct pitch above.
After talking with the repairman, the fundamental solution is to shave the tone hole, but I don't want to take that option because it will inevitably cause problems other than pitch.
More and more teachers around me are using R13s and RCs, which are a little earlier. They agree that the slightly earlier instruments of course have many problems, but in terms of pitch, they are easier to correct than today's instruments.
I have a friend who uses an elite, and that instrument is wonderful, with perfect pitch in all registers. I wonder why what was possible in the past is no longer possible with today's buffet...
Post Edited (2024-12-03 05:49)
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-12-03 13:24
David Eichler wrote:
..." Aren't the tone holes already undercut on a professional Buffet? Don't you mean that you had additional undercutting done?"
Yes, my A clarinet required additional undercutting to correct flat E and really flat thumb F.
"Anyway, I don't see how you can modify a clarinet tone hole and not affect both corresponding pitches of the 12th. However, on clarinet it is generally easier to bring a sharp note down with embouchure adjustment than to bring a flat note up."
Over-cutting (enlarging) a tone hole would bring both notes up, with the top affected more.
Undercutting would bring the lower one up more than the corresponding top note.
That's why it is so important to go to a highly skilled tech. They can evaluate the problem and see if a solution exists.
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-12-03 15:06
Mostly just for the record, and since also Reform Boehm clarinets were mentioned above, here are some of my personal experiences about those:
With my setup on my Wurlitzer RB's I get the high B's well in tune, but the corresponding E's are very flat (adding only the Eb-key makes them too sharp while adding only the C#-key doesn't rise them enough, so for a "perfect pitch" I'm using an insanely complicated X0Xc#+d#|000 fingering - works up to 1/8 note speeds, but above that I'm adding only the Eb-key, thus accepting some sharpness at higher speeds).
On the Leitner & Kraus RB's I've tried, their B flats have been excellently in tune (the B's and E's), but on their A clarinets I got similar B/E's as on my Wurlitzers.
On the Schwenk & Seggelke RB's I've tried (yes, they are nowadays also using the RB term), the B/E's on both their Bb's and A's have tuned excellently. However, since at least for me their RB's seem to work well only together with their own modified Vandoren mouthpieces, and I thus didn't get the tone from them as I got with some other mouthpieces, they eventually weren't an option for me (the problem I got with other mouthpieces was severe undertoning in most of the third register).
I should also add that it's now about 5 years or more since I made those trials, so maybe not fully reflecting how these instruments are currently.
Post Edited (2024-12-03 16:43)
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-12-04 01:34
Possible that due to a limited marker for RB clarinets, makers do not want to invest into further development...
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