 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-11-01 12:05
This was touched upon in another thread, but you who have played the Backun Q or Alpha basses and also some of the Buffet basses, how do they compare regarding tone?
I very much like the "classical" tone of the Tosca bass in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-TDr-zTbqg&ab_channel=BuffetCrampon
Do you think something similar would be achievable on the Backun basses?
I'm aware that such as the mouthpiece, reed and player may matter more regarding tone than just the horn alone - but still also the latter plays a significant, or sometimes even a crucial role.
Post Edited (2024-11-01 12:15)
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2024-11-01 12:20
This forum is so stuck on Backun basses and perhaps it's because at least in America and Canada they are being heavily promoted. If you like the sound of a Buffet - buy a Buffet!
Have a listen to this and particularly the advice at the end https://youtu.be/21bcWIWJvFM?si=CDfAQ5VHXPkv5w45
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Author: Ed
Date: 2024-11-01 15:58
While there are always differences and subtleties in the tone of one instrument vs another, I am sure many players can get any sound they want on any instrument.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-11-01 19:39
I was told point blank that my Buffet Prestige bass - the instrument itself - is 'gutless' by someone who didn't even play one, but only relayed what someone else said in passing and took their word as gospel, rather than trying the instrument out for themselves.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2024-11-02 04:48
There is so much nonsense floating around that is supposedly "common knowledge" or "facts" which are merely based on some person's opinion or hearsay. Lots of it is some kind of weird snobbery.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-11-04 11:19
Related Academic Reading:
1) "The Emperor's New Clothes."
2) " The Princess And The Pea."
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: rs cl
Date: 2024-11-04 13:05
"I'm aware that such as the mouthpiece, reed and player may matter more regarding tone than just the horn alone - but still also the latter plays a significant, or sometimes even a crucial role."
Yes, the most important factors in making a tone of any decent quality are the player and the mouthpiece and reed. Vincet Penot, in the video, could probably produce the same quality of tone with a vacuum cleaner pipe.
In cycling they say "ride up grades, don't buy upgrades" to get fitter. The same applies with playing the (bass) clarinet.
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2024-11-04 15:53
One more thing!
One of the most important differences between the amateur and professional will often, but not always be, the proper setup of the instrument, absolutely essential with the bass clarinet.
Many novices are given an imperfect instrument so they can fill the gap in their band or orchestra. Unsurprisingly, they struggle because pads don't cover, there is lost motion in the keywork, imperfect venting and leaks, perhaps due to imperfect tone hole surfaces.
Seasoned professional bass players know all this and it's just one reason why they should never lend their instrument to an inexperienced player - the setup will have taken time and money!
I've taken many sectional rehearsals with amateur players and, through no fault of their own, the most common issues are the state of the instrument and setup. With bass clarinet the issues are compounded. All the fuss over which brand of instrument goes for nothing if the follow on from purchase is not properly determined. If you're buying some of the instruments being described on this forum unseen and depending on them leaving the supplier in perfect condition - good luck! Setup is something to be accomplished in the company of the technician who will check and advise. Even after the initial meeting a return may be necessary as things settle down and new preferences occur to the player.
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-11-05 14:42
While I think we all agree about the "minor" role of a horn alone concerning tone (compared to the player, mouthpiece and reed), I still don't think it's quite as insignificant as some here seem to claim - and I also think there may be some over simplifications and incorrect generalisations about it.
A thought provoking example might be that of the pro horns of Yamaha vs. Buffet (here I'm primarily referring to soprano clarinets, but the following conclusions includes basses). I feel a general consensus here to be that the Yamahas are "better" in almost every respect - in consistency, how they are set up already out of the box, tuning (or at least not any worse than on the Buffets), etc. Even the price point is in great favour of the Yamahas. So how come a majority of pro players are still choosing Buffets, and only a small minority the Yamahas?
I can only see their tone difference as the decisive factor.
Surely many of us are quite conservative in choosing instruments, and we also tend to follow the majority (as people in general) - but I believe such factors are still accounting only partly for this antilogy.
Also Yamaha as a brand is similarly well established as Buffet, their clarinets are available worldwide, and surely most (if not all) pro players have test played a Yamaha.
Or, are these hordes of pros running after Buffets perhaps just too lazy, or lacking the skill of adjusting their voicing etc to get just the same sound from a Yamaha as they'r getting from their Buffets? I don't think so.
This leads to the "over simplifications and incorrect generalisations" mentioned, with my take as follows:
- Some players can evidently pick up almost any horn (even of a German system or vice versa) and still sound the same. Is that due to an amazing ability of instantly adjusting their embouchure, voicing, etc to always get "their" tone? Can't believe that, but instead I believe some players "internal setup" (anatomy, voicing, etc) to be of a special kind that simply "resonates" quite the same with just about any "external setup" (horn, mouthpiece, reed, etc). However, to me it would be an over simplification and incorrect generalisation to claim that to be the case with just any player - or that it would be somehow achievable by anyone with just enough practise.
- In accordance with the foregoing, most players would not sound the same on any horn (based on personal experiences, with myself included). Still, the degree of influence of a specific horn with a specific player would certainly vary (thus no generalisation here either).
- To be perfectly clear about the Yamaha vs. Buffet example, I certainly believe those few pros choosing a Yamaha are indeed sounding better (or at least equal, and what's "better" or "equal" is of course subjective) on their instruments than on any Buffet model they've tried. While I believe some of the current Buffet players also would do that (but they are stuck with their Buffets for other reasons), I also believe that most of them just aren't getting a "better" sound from a Yamaha than what they get from their Buffet (also here due to how their "internal setup" resonates with their "external setup").
All this once again stresses the "try before buy"-saying, as well as try a selection of different makes and models as large as possible (Buffets, Yamahas, Selmers, Uebels, Backuns, etc) - to find out what "resonates" best with you and your "internal setup".
Still, other players subjective experiences are of interest to me (not at least in this case since not a single Buffet bass is stocked by a single vendor in my whole country, so no chance to compare or try out without travelling far).
I'm still hoping that someone who actually have played both a Buffet bass (preferably a Tosca or Prestige) and a Backun Alpha or Q would share just their personal assessment. Also about tonal differences (or not) between the Alpha and Q basses.
Post Edited (2024-11-06 18:29)
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2024-11-05 18:01
Slightly off topic, but the main reason most pros choose Buffet over Yamaha is because of how soft the key work is. The first (and thankfully last) time I worked on a 622 I was terrified of how easy it was to bend not just the keys but even the posts! I had to make significant modifications to the basset keys to get them to close properly. In many ways it was worse than some cheaper Chinese basses. On the plus side it did have good response and intonation. Yamaha does a fantastic job of setting up their instruments, but the alloys they use are just not suitable for a professional level bass clarinet IMHO.
-JDbassplayer
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