 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2024-04-14 18:46
In various posts over the years, I've noted references to amateur, semi-pro and professional bands or orchestras.
Amateur and professional seem pretty self-explanatory, but how do you all define "semi-pro"? Is that where some members (like principal chairs) are paid? Some members are music professionals in "real life", but volunteer in a community organization?
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-04-14 19:10
I would think of a semi-pro as of someone whose primary income comes from a non-performing job (being a music teacher, or an engineer, doctor, etc.), who also gets paid for playing music that is not directly related to their day time job.
Also, need to consider the playing skills/level of a specific musician. I play in a community orchestra with a clarinetist who was a music teacher but played a lot of gigs over the years. He is great and definitely plays at the pro level.
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2024-04-16 05:33
Professional is a very VERY high standard. There are hardly any truly professional players. Therefore, semi-pro means someone who is an exceptional, outstanding musician, but not quite good enough to score a university or symphony job.
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2024-04-16 06:05
I appreciate the distinction above for individual players. But back to my original question: What makes an ORGANIZATION (band or orchestra) semi-pro? Some groups seem to call themselves this, but it seems very subjective.
Are there any standards by which we might call one group "community" and another "semi-professional"?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-04-16 07:26
Well I can't say for sure this is what you are getting at, but the reality of the pay structure situation is that many smaller orchestras are "per service." That means you just get paid an hourly rate for the time you are in rehearsal or performance. These groups DO NOT cover all of one's living expenses and players MUST seek supplemental income to survive. A lot of players in that group teach privately or at a school or even do something else entirely. It is only the top orchestras that have the monies to provide a salary (and certainly one that enables you a decent quality of living).
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: donald
Date: 2024-04-16 12:39
At the risk of sounding bitter... a LOT of the time the difference between "Pro" and "semi pro" is just how good you are at making friends and playing the game correctly.
To be frank, the "Pro" scene is really just an adult extension of the school yard politics you first encounter aged 5 or 6.
Ok, not exclusively, but a LOT of the time.
(I can name 2 players I know, not on clarinet, who "failed" trial periods in orchestra that later hired 2nd rate players that are just better at being "friendy". Both those players went on to win jobs in more than one principal audition, so clearly there are some orchestra who make fair and sensible decisions.)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2024-04-16 20:47
donald wrote:
> At the risk of sounding bitter... a LOT of the time the
> difference between "Pro" and "semi pro" is just how good you
> are at making friends and playing the game correctly.
Most certainly not limited to the music game. I'm in IT - the best and brightest are often not team leads or architects.
And I'm one of the people that does hiring.
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2024-04-16 22:37
There are about 2,500 concert bands in the U.S. Many are called "Community Bands". In promoting my book, I have found that the vast majority are all amateurs. A very few "elite" ones are 100% pro. I played in one of those which had about 35 members and we played every hard thing you could imagine. Where I play principal now is what I'd call "semi-pro". Half to 2/3rd of us get paid, the rest are good amateur players--(doctors, lawyers, college and even the rare HS player). Most of the pros in this band have day jobs, with quite a few being school band directors (like I was before retirement). I few make a living playing (night club gigs, other bands, orchestras, playing parades, etc.).
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2024-04-16 22:40)
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Author: lmliberson
Date: 2024-04-17 00:06
Analogous to this would be those that stand in front of ensembles.
Very few could be regarded as true "conductors"...
...the rest are mere semiconductors.
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2024-04-17 01:27
lmliberson-- Reminds me of my old joke drawing of an 18 wheeler holding a baton. That went up on the band room bulletin board.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: Chris_C ★2017
Date: 2024-09-17 19:22
It seems quite a straightforward definition to me - a "semi-pro" is someone whose main job is outside music (doctor, engineer, truck driver,...) but who does PAID gigs in the evenings and at weekends. A "pro" musician is someone where all (or nearly all) the income is from music. Lots of blurring of the boundaries, of course - someone whose main job is gigging but who does casual waiter jobs is probably still a pro (just as actors do!). Music teachers are more difficult to categorise - someone with a full time school music teacher job who then does paid gigs in pubs in the evenings is probably what I'd call a semi-pro - but whether I'm right is a subject which could easily consume all the income from a pub gig in buying drinks in the venue to argue over...
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2024-09-17 21:51
In a nut shell then, I guess being a professional musician means making a living playing (though it could be most of their income with a side job). Playing professionally means you simply get paid when you do play. Don't know if I would call that person a semi-pro or not. Semantics.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2024-09-18 05:46
So...I guess Bing Crosby was a semi-pro...since he made so much money doing movies/films/investments in recording machinery, etc?
Before we started the grand slide of relativism - the question of "What is a pro?" was answered quite simply: If you earned money from it, you were no longer considered an amateur. It was pretty cut and dry - whether you were an athlete or a photographer wanting to compete in a contest. Income received for doing whatever it is you were doing = pro and disqualified you from amateur competitions.
I have no idea what a semi-pro is - unless it is an orchestra that is only half as good as it thinks it is...or someone that almost gets paid...or gets paid, but has to return the fee in order to pay for the venue.
Haha! Great question SlowOldMan - what is a semi-pro?! Does a GoPro make a full pro? (Could be...you never know.)
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2024-09-18 06:13
I got into a big discussion years ago on the Scuba Board which included -- What is a profession? Doctor, lawyer, etc. but not dishwasher? Then there is being professional about something. I kept sayin what Fuzzy says -- being professional means getting paid. Now being A professional may be something different ---- or not ---.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-09-18 10:15
When I buy milk in the supermarket, the ' Full' tends to be blue and the 'Semi' green.
That said, a semi-pro musician may be a bit blue because they're still a bit green.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2024-09-20 20:32
Are you a professional xxxxx - yes, because I get paid for xxxxx and it's my profession
Is xxxxx your profession? - No, I make the money doing xxxxx because I'm good at it and for fun, but I don't make enough to survive.
Are you a semi-pro? WTF is that?
Post Edited (2024-09-20 20:44)
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2024-09-22 01:30
I think of professional as someone with an orchestra job, professorship, or full time gig schedule.
Semi pro is someone who does some giging work, maybe some teaching too but has some other primary source of income.
However I know people who play in community bands and don't teach that firmly identify as professionals. It's better not to hurt people's feelings so I respect whatever identifications in the field.
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Author: graham
Date: 2024-09-22 16:20
Where the question is about the meaning of ‘semi professional ensemble’, it denotes one with a core of professional musicians, supplemented by amateurs.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2024-09-22 21:19
People are too hung up on labels. Pro or semi-pro? Right or left? Millennial or Gen-Z?
WHO CARES? Can the player play, or not?
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2024-09-22 22:52
While all the responses are interesting and thought-provoking, and much appreciated, thanks to Graham for answering the original question (about the organizations, rather than the players) directly.
Amateur musician, retired physician
Delaware Valley Wind Symphony, clarinet 1
Bucks County Symphony Orchestra, clarinet 2 (sub)
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