 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jim sclater
Date: 2024-09-10 17:30
Is there ever a situation in which a French style mouthpiece is useable on a large-bore clarinet such as a B&H 10-10 w/o having to be rebored?
jsclater@comcast.net
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Author: lydian
Date: 2024-09-10 21:29
Why on earth would you destroy your clarinet in order to play the wrong mouthpiece?
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-09-11 00:33
To me the OP's question is perfectly understandable, since who wouldn't want as large a selection as possible of potentially suitable mouthpieces to any clarinet - without the trouble of altering their bore?
That said, I'm afraid chances are small. Though I'm lacking experience of the B&H 10-10, I have some from wide bore Viennese clarinets and their mouthpieces. Based on that, I suspect the difference in bore diameter between the B&H 10-10 and French clarinets is just too large for any standard French mouthpiece to give acceptable tuning.
Hopefully though someone else with experience of the B&H 10-10 could give a more definitive answer.
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Author: ebonite
Date: 2024-09-11 00:39
The throat notes would be so sharp that it would be impossible to correct them.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-09-11 15:40
I think the question is whether you can use an UNALTERED French mouthpiece on a B&H 1010. If that is the question, the answer is .......no. The internal intonation is too distorted. I have used 1010s in the past and could not get passed that limitation as mentioned above. Also, there is embouchure correction of pitch required on 1010s just as a matter of course even when using the correct cylindrically bored mouthpiece........but yes you can re-bore any "other" mouthpiece to work properly upon a 1010.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: lydian
Date: 2024-09-11 17:02
Isn't the pitch largely determined by the length? Changing the bore will have less effect than changing the length. I have mouthpieces of various chamber sizes which are all the same pitch. I'm not seeing how making the bore match will do much of anything.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2024-09-11 17:18
I would say that the answer to the original question depends partly on the mouthpiece and on the player. In general, as noted above, swapping a given mouthpiece from a Buffet to a 1010 will make the throat notes very much sharper, to a point where it would be hard to correct them down by lip and adding fingers - if you were in tune on the Buffet. But the last assumption need not follow. Speaking personally, I find Vandoren 13 series mouthpieces make the throat notes on a Buffet way below pitch - although this varies with the player: I know some who get on fine with them, while others have the same experience as me. All to do with the shape of your mouth, I guess. So if I put a 13 series MP on a 1010, I would predict that the throat notes would be sharp, but perhaps not beyond compensation. Also bear in mind that it doesn't matter how sharp G# and A are as it's easy to fill in the holes with blutack or equivalent to get the pitch exactly where you want it. So it's only a question of how well F & G work. It's not an experiment I've ever tried, but I may give it a go and report back.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-09-11 19:24
1010 mouthpieces use a cylindrical bore that matches the .600 inch diameter of the 1010 clarinet bore. There is virtually no compatibility with any other mouthpiece. However others on this Board have shared that Pillinger (and others?) can bore out a French mouthpiece to match. Naturally this is an irreversible process.
…………….Paul Aviles
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2024-09-12 01:58
Attachment: 1010.jpg (15k)
OK, I did the experiment and the result is in the attached plot. This was a 1010 Bb that I first played on a 1010-bore mouthpiece, then a 13-series B40, then a standard Selmer C85 120, which is what I use on Buffets. The plot shows the pitch error in cents (100 = 1 semitone) against throat tone in descending order (A# on the L, down to E on the R). The B40 is in red, the Selmer in green. What I see is that the Selmer is way sharp, as expected, by up to 25 cents. But the 13 series B40 reduces the sharpness by about a factor 3 - to an average of about 10 cents. This is a small enough error that it could be dealt with by lipping and adding fingers. The result wouldn't be great - but then 1010 tuning in general is poor (which is why they stopped being used), and some notes can be out by 10 cents even with the correct mouthpiece. In any case, the plot makes it clear why I'm not able to use 13 series mouthpieces on a Buffet.
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Author: Jeroen
Date: 2024-09-12 13:50
I play a nice pair of 1010's that tune very well btw. It is not possible to play these in tune with a standard French mouthpiece.
But if you must: use a short barrel so you have to pull out a lot to get the pitch down. This creates a gap in the bore between mpc and clarinet that somewhat resembles the larger volume of a proper 1010 mpc. It is not ideal of course.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-09-12 17:41
Interesting suggestion.........never tried that back in the day. However my set of 1010s still sit in a closet unused going in 50 years.
..........Paul Aviles
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Author: David Eichler
Date: 2024-09-13 03:46
Pedantic point: large-bore boehm-system clarinets are still "french" clarinets. I believe Ed Pillinger (mentioned above) makes his own mouthpieces for large-bore clarinets.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2024-09-16 03:48
Lydian, The poster refers to boring out the mouthpiece, not the instrument. The 1010 mouthpiece is bored as a cylinder, whereas the French-style mouthpiece is bored as a cone. The cylindrical boring is to increase the internal volume of the mouthpiece, otherwise it will not tune properly on a large-bore instrument. That being said, it is possible to bore out a French-style mouthpiece to tune properly on a 1010. I have a Selmer mouthpiece which was rebored by Dr Ed Pillinger to play on a 1010 and it tunes extremely well. I bored out a Vandoren B45 as an experiment and it also played OK, although not as well as the pillinger or original B&H 1010 mouthpieces.
Tony F.
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