 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-09-13 14:36
This subject is touched on in another current thread, but I thought I'd give it a separate one.
It's about the tuning of the throat tones which often can vary greatly with the player - and more so than with other tones.
Also Ludwig Dietz (from the German clarinet maker Dietz Klarinettenbau) once told me that when he is tuning a clarinet for a specific customer, the biggest adjustments always concerns the throat tones.
So, why this inconsistency in this particular region? Well, I have a theory "just by my own" (so take it for what it is) - as follows:
When we start from scratch learning clarinet, our very first notes are probably the first register C-D-E - all with a nice and secure grip of the instrument, involving both our l.h. thumb and one or more of the other l.h. fingers.
Then comes F, with the whole instrument resting only on our thumbs - and thus a lot less secure, wobblier grip. And then the worst note of all, the open G where the instrument is supported only by the r.h. thumb at one end, and the mouth at the other. Now, what I suspect happens with a number of players is that they instinctively increase their lip pressure on these notes - just for a securer grip of their instruments.
At this early level no attention is hardly paid to how this increased lip pressure affects tuning (also since the tuning of any note probably still is pretty wild). However, for some players this increased lip pressure eventually becomes habitual - and thus an unconscious measure every time a throat tone is to be played. Thus sharper throat tones, compared to other players maintaining a more uniform pressure (either since they newer attempted stabilizíng their grip of the instrument by increased lip pressure in the first place, or since they later learned to loosen it).
A way of testing this theory would be with a player with sharp throat tones blowing in his/her instrument, but another player fingering random notes on it - thus the "blower" not foreseeing which the next note would be (a throat note on not). Of course it would still be possible that the "blower" makes a quick, unconscious "correction" immediately when he/she hears a throat note - but perhaps not if they are played in a quick enough succession.
Can't do this experiment myself, since I don't have particularly sharp throat notes, but maybe someone else?
Thoughts?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-09-13 19:16
Take into account the relatively short length of tubing involved when playing an open G, throat G# or throat A and they're far less stable and variable compared to a low G/G#/A where there's far more length of tubing involved and minor embouchure changes aren't going to have as much as an effect on them.
I remember a posthorn player asking the clarinet players to give him a concert Ab. Every clarinet player had their own take on that note. I was there on oboe and could've given him a far more solid Ab he asked for, but these military types seem to like to take their tunings from clarinet players instead of oboe players for some odd reason.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-09-13 20:55
As a military type, I'd say the issue is that the clarinet IS the predominant sound in the band so ya might as well be in tune with that. I think it's pretty funny to expose a tuning problem like that requiring a short tube tuning note. Of course really find bands have fewer issues.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk
Date: 2024-09-13 21:28
Paul Aviles wrote:
> As a military type, I'd say the issue is that the clarinet IS
> the predominant sound in the band so ya might as well be in
> tune with that.
The predominant sound in an orchestra is strings. But they get the tuning note from an oboe.
> I think it's pretty funny to expose a tuning
> problem like that requiring a short tube tuning note.
I wonder why the posthorn player wanted an Ab? What is a posthorn's fundamantal pitch?
It's a moot point when bands tune to a clarinet - they tune to Bb, which is about as stable a note as there is on a Bb clarinet.
The two bands I'm involved with - one as a player and the other as a conductor - both tune to the principal (often the only) oboe. Ironically, the oboist, accustomed to tuning an orchestra, often forgets what she's doing and plays an A, which causes temporary havoc.
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-09-13 22:54
Attachment: P1010008.JPG (690k)
Tuning to a clarinet as it's the predominant sound is a bad idea if you've got at least twelve clarinet players all blowing their tits off and you can't tell which one is meant to be in tune, especially if the solo clarinet player plays their tuning note for a split second and stops then looks around with a cross between an expectant and bemused look about them expecting everyone to have registered their brief tuning note which they always seem to do instead of playing a sustained note which an oboist can do for aeons (especially if they can circular breathe) and also produce a sound that carries far better than the more rounded and comparatively dull clarinet sound that gets drowned out when everyone starts blasting their tits off.
I've just overhauled a set of Leblanc LLs and the throat A tonehole on both of them is massive compared to a Normandy, any Buffet or Selmer I've worked on. If that isn't going to induce instability with a throat A or Bb, then I don't know what is.
One time playing in 'West Side Story' the trombone players kept on coming in mega early every single time in 'Officer Krupke' instead of waiting for the vocal cue for their bit, so that left myself on reed 3 (Selmer CT) and the clarinettist on reed 2 (RC Prestige) holding unison throat notes for an inordinately longer time than was necessary, so we made it fun by using different resonance fingerings and making each other tune to each other instead of just sitting there with all manner of difference tones going on like a numpty if we stuck with the one fingering regardless if we were in tune with each other or not. Oh, we have a right laugh.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2024-09-14 23:05)
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