 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: colvospass
Date: 2024-08-18 06:52
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Decades ago I bought a Boehm system Hawkes and Sons clarinet on eBay for $100. I was interested in trying a large bore instrument, and had the idea that that was all they made. I played it a little bit, thought "meh, no big deal," then stuck it away.
Earlier this summer I was going on a trip, and wanted to take a clarinet along to play some scales, thirds, arpeggios, etc. to keep me in some sort of shape for things that were going on when I got home. I didn't really like the thought of having to protect the R13 I usually play, so it occurred to me to dig out the Hawkes and see if it would serve. I found a mouthpiece (B46) and reed (Legere 3.25 European) that worked well, and a travelin' I went. But a funny thing happened: the more I practiced on the old instrument, the more I found myself thinking "You know, this thing really plays pretty sweet!" So I started trying to learn more about it.
The serial number starts with U, followed by four numbers. I have not been able to find any serial number lists with that format. In the course of searching, I read that some of their early clarinets were modeled on French instruments, so then I thought that maybe it isn't a large bore instrument at all. I did some quick measurements with cheap plastic calipers on the opening at the end of each joint, and they are very similar to those on my 1976 R13. So I'm guessing maybe it has the French connection, but clarinets of that ilk that I have come across have more elaborate, informative stamping than the simple "Hawkes and Sons" that my instrument has.
I am attaching photos that show the basic keywork as well some of the unusual (in my experience) characteristics which might help identify it. For instance, the hole for G# is positioned so far toward the middle joint that there is break-through where the wood is removed to receive the pad. Also, the tube in the register key hole that usually extends into the bore is almost entirely on the outside of the instrument, and the thumb hole is not straight below the register key; the hole and ring are rotated a little to the right. Also, There are numbers stamped on the underside of some keys. A lot of them are stamped 13, but there are other numbers as well. Most of them are very hard to photograph, so I'm just showing a few.
Can anyone help me out with any more information about this instrument?
Thanks in advance!
Post Edited (2024-08-18 07:02)
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Author: Reformed
Date: 2024-08-18 12:56
Can't date your serial number but there is some background on Hawkes & Son clarinets in Jennifer Brand's thesis https://research.gold.ac.uk/id/eprint/20822/, Section 2.2.3.
"2.2.3 Hawkes & Son
In order to be seen as serious rivals to Boosey & Co., Hawkes & Son must
have been producing wind instruments on a similarly large scale to Boosey. There are very few known extant records of H&S production though, so there is much less scope for a thorough analysis of the H&S instruments and production. There are two H&S journals in the Boosey & Hawkes archive, both from the period 1921-1931, and a number of H&S technical drawings from this period. One of these covers woodwind production, the other brasswinds. Information in the H&S records is organised quite simply, with just one date, instrument (with some description), class and serial number. Descriptions of instruments are also simple, with materials being listed as either ‘wood’ or ‘ebonite’, without going into the details of all the different woods that were being used. Instruments are often marked as ‘makers’ or ‘not makers’, presumably distinguishing those that were made by H&S from those that were bought in. During this time H&S was importing and producing 13- and 14-key clarinets, and Boehm clarinets. The 13- and 14-key clarinets, and Boehm clarinets after 1925, appear to have been made by H&S; the earlier Buffet clarinets were imported. Clarinettist Charles Draper tuned clarinets for H&S, and it was quite probably through his influence that they decided to import Boehm instruments made by Martel from 1900-1915."
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So could be B&S, Buffet or Martel!
Post Edited (2024-08-18 12:58)
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2024-08-18 16:20
Attachment: 20240818_123204.jpg (465k)
I've owned a number of Hawkes instruments, both Boehm and non-Boehm. They all had quite elaborate markings on the top joint, in the style of the attached picture: with the text "Hawkes & Son Makers London" and the serial number. These markings from the top joint are repeated in full on the bell. Your instrument seems to have no markings apart from "Hawkes & Sons" on the bell. In every respect apart from the bell, it doesn't look like a Hawkes instrument. It has two pillars for the long LH keys rather than a single pillar, and it has a later style of thumbrest. Both of these features suggest a date after 1930, when Hawkes merged with Boosey. So I would guess that this is a non-Hawkes instrument, but with a Hawkes bell added. The bell itself is a separate puzzle, though: it says "Sons", whereas as far as I know it was always Hawkes and Son singular. Very odd: maybe the current epidemic of eBay fakes predated the internet....?
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Author: colvospass
Date: 2024-08-19 08:51
Thanks for the information, Reformed. I had read parts of that thesis, but didn't come across that section. What pictures I find of Martels show some superficial similarities (like the pattern of the tenon rings), but I haven't seen anything that has that odd tube extension under the register key opening. Mr. Peaciock – I didn't show this with photos, but the simplistic Hawkes and Sons stamping is on the barrel and upper and lower joints as well as the bell. I'm not sure if that makes this more mysterious, or less! I didn't realize it when I made the purchase, but the plural "Sons" is definitely suspicious. it's hard for me to see how H&S could import an instrument to rebrand as their own and then make that mistake. But even if stamping was done by someone to intentionally deceive, it still leaves me wondering just what it is. Guess I might have to live with that.
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Author: colvospass
Date: 2024-08-19 08:57
Maybe I should start another thread asking if anyone has ever encountered a clarinet serial number starting with U!
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Author: donald
Date: 2024-08-19 13:02
The register key tube COULD be an alteration made by a repair tech at some point... to be honest it just looks like someone has slightly bent the register key, and shellacked the vent tube in so that it's sitting proud of the instrument body.
Post Edited (2024-08-19 13:05)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-08-19 17:17
It looks like a French made stencil model more than any Hawkes & Sons clarinet I've seen.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jeroen
Date: 2024-08-19 18:40
colvospass wrote:
> Maybe I should start another thread asking if anyone has ever encountered a clarinet serial number starting with U!
Selmer clarinets from around 1960 had serial numbers with U prefix but your clarinet is definitely older.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-08-19 20:00
U series Selmers are from the mid to late '60s and bear no resemblance to this clarinet. Selmer did make some stencil clarinets but they have the same keywork and fittings as other Selmers of the same relative era.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: graham
Date: 2024-08-23 14:36
I own three Hawkes Excelsior Sonorius instruments (all probably made by Martel), and this instrument is not at all similar. As JP mentions, the twin pillar on the lower joint dates it probably to early 30s and later. The use of a single pillar for both rod junctions in the throat keys is an early feature, but endured somewhat later, and the inclusion of an adjustment screw in that combination makes it look 40s to me. The joint tenon rings should be flat as they were to be afterwoods in B&H for the premium instruments, but are not flat here. The H&S marking on the bell is not what I would have expected for a true Hawkes instrument. The layout of the keywork looks to me more like B&H layout. Martel offset some of the pad cups away from the hand to ease finger positioning, and I don't see that here.
Genuine Hawkes and Sons instruments were sometimes made in the UK and sometimes in France. The earlier French Martel-made models are generally the most appreciated, and are probably around 14.9mm. 1920s Hawkes clarinets were made in the UK and are similar but may be fractionally narrower, and at that time the Martel Freres a Paris instruments (not marked Hawkes) were also slightly narrower.
I am inclined to guess (and it's no more than that) that this is a late 40s inexpensive B&H clarinet where they differentiated it using the Hawkes & Sons name which they then owned. However, it surprises me in that case that it is as narrow as 14.6mm, since I would have expected 15mm from that era.
If it plays nicely and in tune, then, well done indeed. Even if it was a cheap model, B&H often used good materials on lower priced instruments (but not always - see Chris P's posts on the B&H mazak keywork era for more information).
graham
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Author: colvospass
Date: 2024-09-05 00:08
Thanks for all the info, Graham. I really like how the instrument responds and sounds, but the intonation is not as good as the R13 that I've been playing for years. I just received from eBay my complete purchase history, and see that I bought this in October of 2004 for 51 pounds. I'm sure there was some cost to ship it to the states, but at least I'm not heavily invested. I don't think I'll ever play it consistently, but I think I'll keep it for the purpose I mentioned at the top of the thread--something to travel with that won't break my heart if it gets damaged.
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