 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ClarinetIsLife
Date: 2024-08-07 23:53
Now that I got your attention
I graduated from a conservatorium with a performance major and gigged around for a few years while teaching and then slowly got into international education. By the time I was 30, I played occasionally, then it was only drunken parties and then it all stopped when kids were born. I am now in my mid-40s, successful in my work, moved countries a bunch of times but want to come back to playing. Still got my two B clarinets.
Has anyone figured out a "return to some sort of a form" plan that I could use? Trouble: I can make sound, can read well etc. only fingers don't listen to me well at all. Another issue is that after about 20 minutes I feel like my mouth was driven over by a car and my right thumb is about to fall off.
Play too little - and that's not much at all. Play a bit more and risk not coming back because everything hurts like no tomorrow.
Thanks in advance!
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2024-08-08 00:20
I’d recommend downloading smart music. You can play along with a ton of band pieces. They display all the parts on the screen. It’s a fun way to get back in shape. Good luck!
James Garcia
Bass Clarinet/Clarinet III, Des Moines Symphony Orchestra
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2024-08-08 00:34
Get an embouchure-friendly mouthpiece & reed setup. You need to build chops again without building bad habits.
Regarding the slow fingers issue: I strongly recommend investing a few minutes of your practicing time into the Vade Meacum by Jeanjean and starting it really slow.
Pay attention to the quality of the airflow. Embouchure fatigue can come from the need to control the sound somehow even if you run out of air but want to maintain the sound.
Have a rest frequently. Stop playing for one minute after every two minutes of playing. Facial muscles are much harder to train than bigger muscles of the body. They are not just small but built differently. You can gradually increase the playing time and decrease the rest every week.
Have fun!
Mark
(mouthpiece refacer, former professional clarinettist)
Post Edited (2024-08-08 00:35)
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Author: David Eichler
Date: 2024-08-08 10:59
Stopped playing for years, to concentrate on alto sax. Started playing again consistently about 6 months ago and it is a slow process, but then I am doing that while still playing sax. Not a pro, but I had a well-developed embouchure and tone and good basic technique.
All I can say is to start slow and be very patient. I am trying to spend as much time as I can tolerate on just pure technical study right now. I like doing very slow scales starting at the lowest note on the horn, going up to the highest, and all the way back down, also with arpeggios, and just working on sound and even technique in the most relaxed manner.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2024-08-08 19:24
sonicbang wrote:
> Get an embouchure-friendly mouthpiece & reed setup. You need to
> build chops again without building bad habits.
>
I'd first of all second this comment. Your chops will probably come back first, but only if you aren't straining your embouchure muscles playing on an unresponsive or hard-responding setup. What you played on successfully when you were playing full-time in school and in your twenties may have taken more strength than you were aware you were using. People get used to a lot of different levels of resistance when they play regularly and don't know anything different. Just being able to "make a sound" doesn't mean you aren't straining.
I'd also second the suggestion of using the Vade Meacum for a few minutes of each practice session and playing as slowly as you need to to control your fingers. The exercises aren't musically scintillating, but they bear a lot of repetition without other musical distractions so you can concentrate on finger control and tone quality. Standard etudes can provide more interesting musical context, and to the extent that you can manage them can round out your routine.
I would not suggest, until you're comfortable again with the instrument, that you do anything that requires you to keep up with something. If you use something like Smart Music, don't set it to standard tempos - yet. There's nothing that promotes sloppiness more than trying to play faster than your body wants to go, unless you're using a disciplined approach that allows either starting with slower tempos or isolating very small chunks of music at tempo that you add more chunks to incrementally.
Have patience. But if you can make the time available, as soon as you feel up to keeping up with an ensemble find one to play in. The exposure to other players could be an important incentive.
Have fun with it. Good luck!
Karl
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2024-08-09 11:35
I think Karl hit it on the head, have fun. Mix up what you play to keep you engaged. Play alongs, music etc. Do things you want to do😀
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2024-08-10 08:37
I was the Eb/extra clarinet in the San Diego Symphony and quit in 1985 for 15 years after my son was born. I started playing again with the choir at church, motivated by our music minister.
I guess I was just happy to play again and started practicing excerpts and familiar chamber music. Eventually it paid off and I got my chops back, playing with friends. I thank God for blessing me as I have been principal clarinet in a community orchestra and played professionally again for the last 24 years. I’m also still playing with the choir at church!
Bob Barnhart
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Author: Noodler100
Date: 2024-08-14 23:00
I came back to playing 20 years after going to music college and having freelanced for a few years after. It was incredibly tough and I learnt a huge amount coming back. The biggest mistake I made was to not practice enough fundamentals/basics from the start and instead rely on muscle memory for everything; fingers, embouchure, air production, voicing...everything. After a year of playing again and advancing through a prelim in an orchestral audition it suddenly dawned on me that I had to go right back to basics again as my ability to play excerpts in a bullet proof way was limited by my technique. So I did a few months of nothing but long notes, scales, studies, voicing exercises, Baermann clarinet method, learnt how to articulate again from the beginning (Kell), studies. I didn't touch a piece of repertoire/excerpt for a while. I recorded myself endlessly (which was something I couldn't do 20 years ago!) - this was horrible but invaluable. Then I had to learn again to play in an orchestra, and teach myself how to listen again - the biggest problem was learning how to project across an orchestra again, so I tried to occasionally find a bigger space/hall to play in to build this back up. After 2.5 years, I now find I have to practice basics way more often now than I did 20 years ago...I presume because I don't now have 15 years of continuous playing behind me growing up from a 10 year old. So my biggest bit of advice is go back to basics and then keep the basics up, as if I stop the basics now, I take another 2 steps back and it gets harder and harder.
Best of luck!
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Author: ClarinetIsLife
Date: 2024-09-01 12:50
My goodness! Thank you so so much for the incredible advice and words of encouragement, everyone. I am off to practice now.
In my defence: I naively assumed that I will be receiving replies to my emails as well
- you live - you learn.
I like Karl's idea of having fun, and here is the kicker: I think as a child and teen, many things that I was doing were done because I had to, so one of the reasons for me to get back into the clarinet now is not just to try and get a bit closer to the days when I could play well, but actually, for the first time in my life really REALLY enjoy playing. Not enjoy playing because it made me popular among peers and was a great source of income compared to my friends (gigs and teaching), but because I would be doing it for me. I know, this is a philosophical question.
I have an old B45 dot mouthpiece and a pack of unopened Vandorens 56 Rue Lepic in Strength 3.
I studied in Australia, but never have I ever heard of JeanJean's Vade Meacum. Going to give it a try to start with. Also, scales is always awesome (but I am afraid of those top notes above the high E - I just recon people have to have a special licence (like a driver's licence) to be allowed to play them.
I haven't heard of Baermann clarinet method, and have no idea of how to articulate according to Kell. So much to discover!
Will try the 2 minutes on / 1 minute off approach (makes perfect sense since my muscles are non-existent and I remember them aching in the best of times).
Will try and keep you posted on my progress. Stay awesome, gang!
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Author: kdk
Date: 2024-09-01 17:58
ClarinetIsLife wrote:
> I haven't heard of Baermann clarinet method, and have no idea
> of how to articulate according to Kell. So much to discover!
>
I can't tell if this is sarcasm at Kell's expense or not. If you really mean to say that Kell wrote something that you think totally invalidates the way you always articulated when you were playing professionally, I'm curious about that. Surely you must have been doing something right.
> Will try the 2 minutes on / 1 minute off approach (makes
> perfect sense since my muscles are non-existent and I remember
> them aching in the best of times).
This reinforces what I suggested in my other response. If your mouth ached even when you were in decent playing shape, it suggests that your approach to equipment may have had you working too hard for your own physical or musical well-being. A B45 dot has an open-tipped facing (119.5 mm) by French standards. #3 Traditional Vandorens are right in the middle of the range Vandoren recommends (#2.5-#3.5) but maybe not the best starting point for completely out-of-shape muscles.
But then, your original post is now almost a month old, so maybe you've started to get some of your conditioning and control back. But if you were hurting when you *were* in shape, maybe the B45dot is too much for comfort.
Karl
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Author: ClarinetIsLife
Date: 2024-09-01 21:11
Hi Karl,
Kell - possibly Kell says something that my teachers and professors were saying. I just never heard of Kell to be honest.
You are probably right about the mouthpiece / reeds. No I have not played the clarinet for the past month (our academic year started and my awesome job comes with a lot of setup / preparations for the start of school, so now I got a bit of a breather and coming back to the topic.
I unpacked a couple of reeds, chucked them into some water, gave them a blast: gosh, it feels like they are 4.5 in the good old days. Ahahaha. So... what would you recommend? Seriously lost here.
Also, just looking at my cowboy-style approach to learning the clarinet when I was younger: totally unscientific, had no money, played on my professor's rejected reeds a lot of the time (he is awesome, btw.) and just kinda winged it through all the time on the natural talent. Karl's point about me being uncomfortable even in my peak years - spot on ("but I thought everyone feels that, no?") and just makes me almost reassess life as I know it (in a positive, yet melancholic way).
Stay awesome everyone! Any more advice highly appreciated.
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-09-01 22:40
My former students with a B40 (same tip opening as the B45 dot, but 0.5 less recommended reed strength by Vandoren) starting from zero, started with 1.5 Vandoren Traditional reeds (blue box). Maybe 2.0 Traditionals could be a suitable starting point for the B45 dot, or 2.0-2.5 for Rue Lepics (they run a tad softer than the Traditionals)?
Post Edited (2024-09-02 10:27)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2024-09-01 22:45
ClarinetIsLife wrote:
> Hi Karl,
>
> Kell - possibly Kell says something that my teachers and
> professors were saying. I just never heard of Kell to be
> honest.
>
> I unpacked a couple of reeds, chucked them into some water,
> gave them a blast: gosh, it feels like they are 4.5 in the good
> old days. Ahahaha. So... what would you recommend? Seriously
> lost here.
>
I misunderstood and thought you had read something that (Reginald) Kell wrote. He was a well-known and heavily recorded clarinetist through the mid 20th century. BTW, Carl Baermann, who compiled the clarinet method book series and his father Heinrich were early and mid 19th century players and teachers in Germany. Heinrich premiered Weber's concertos, Carl later writing down and publishing his father's embellishments, editorial changes and expansions. The (Carl) Baermann method is a 5-book set that covers everything from beginning long tones through excerpts from his own virtuosic (at the time) concert and chamber pieces for solo clarinet.
Personally, I would recommend a close to medium tip opening (say, 1.03mm to 1.08) with a medium length curve (technically, 16-17 mm) like an M13 Lyre and VD Traditional #3. Depending on the interior design of the mouthpiece, you might need #2.5 or #3.5. There are lots of other mouthpieces that will fill the same bill. I've never played on a Fobes Debut, but I like (and am currently using one of) his more expensive "pro" models and others here have liked the Debut as an inexpensive starter for students to replace the stock mouthpieces that come with their clarinets.
You may eventually gravitate back toward the B45 dot (or something near it - M30 or M30 Lyre, or BD4 or BD5?) after you've built some control, but it shouldn't make your mouth hurt ever.
Meanwhile, make sure the clarinet isn't leaking and is in otherwise good mechanical condition, because leaks (and things that cause them) can make a clarinet harder to play comfortably.
Enjoy!
Karl
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Author: lydian
Date: 2024-09-01 23:55
Interesting. Being self taught, I'd never heard of Kell either. But I just read up a little, and I'm not seeing anything unusual or particularly illuminating. Seems he has a pretty normal approach to articulation. Am I missing something?
I do know Baermann. I've been working through his excellent books the past couple of years with good results.
For the OP, what are your goals exactly, to return to pro level or just play for fun?
Post Edited (2024-09-02 01:57)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2024-09-02 00:12
lydian wrote:
> Interesting. Being self taught, I'd never heard of Kell either.
> But it just read up a little, and I'm not seeing anything
> unusual or particularly illuminating. Seems he has a pretty
> normal approach to articulation. Am I missing something?
>
I don't think so. Not technically, anyway.
Karl
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2024-09-07 00:46
I stopped playing between age 25 and 30. The first day, it was surprising how good I sounded. The second day reality set in, things were the same as the 1st day, and it stunk. But I thought I should practice every day for 2 weeks and see how things went. After 2 weeks, things still stunk but were also definitely better. 6 months later I got into the lower half of the clarinet section in a community band. 5 years later I was 1st chair, but there were still things that I lost.
Don't expect to be that newly minted grad in couple of days. It took time to get where you were, and it will time to get back near there. You are also older and unfortunately may not progress with sheer physical feats as quickly. But remember that every day with small progress is a good day.
It is important to set attainable goals based on what you can do today. If you used to have the Nielsen: Clarinet Concerto memorized, it won't come back by tomorrow. Probably not next week. If it comes back in a year, you are a monster.
Work on tone production a lot, as part of your daily routine. Establishing that routine is critical to achieving success. It might only be 20 minutes of scales.
If you can find people to play music with. Playing in a contra dance band is as productive as 3 hours of me playing scales. Even if it is only you and another clarinet, look at whatever music you make as an opportunity.
And also, memorize some new stuff. The quantity of notes does not matter here. A couple of my simple favorites are "Ashokan Fairwell" (yes in D concert) and "Josefins Dopvals" - neither is hard, but they are wonderful opportunities to try and get a certain assemblage of wood and metal to sing.
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