 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Anonymoose
Date: 2024-01-17 23:04
I was looking up Vandoren's new high density mouthpieces and came across a BD2 instead! It's a 1.02mm tip opening, medium long facing, created to produce the same black diamond tone but with the ease of an M13 Lyre. Thoughts?
Post Edited (2024-01-18 05:22)
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2024-01-18 09:13
It’s basically the black diamond treatment of the m13 lyre. It’s an excellent mouthpiece! I picked one out for a friend. I would play on one if I didn’t already have an m13 lyre I really like.
James Garcia
Bass Clarinet/Clarinet III, Des Moines Symphony Orchestra
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-01-18 19:37
So James, are the rails a thinner, normal thickness such as the M13 or are they more M30ish?
OR
Let me ask in a different way.
I only know the Vandoren Black Diamond from the product descriptions. It seemed to me to just be an OPEN mouthpiece concept. In what way would you say it is a Black Diamond version of the M13Lyre?
................Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2024-01-18 22:24)
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2024-01-19 02:43
Vandoren doesn't disclose the facing length because that would be just another variable besides the tip opening that would be measured by experts (outside Vandoren) and found to be ridiculously inconsistent.
I have yet to find two identical Vandoren of the same model/type.
Mark
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2024-01-19 16:35
I find it odd that VD apparently uses very high end equipment to produce its mouthpieces (even before they used CNCs), specifies some tip openings to 1,000th of a mm, but can't tell us the length of its facings.
To the extent I'm able to measure them accurately, I've found more recent VD published tip openings to be accurate enough.
Presumably, the BD2 is produced by CNC?
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2024-01-19 22:16
Paul,
The BD5 is definitely an open mouthpiece concept along the m30/m30 Lyre range.
The bd2 is similar to an m13 lyre with the associated qualities of a closer faced mouthpiece.
I do not care for the bd5 or m30 for an assortment of reasons but I played both for a long time in the past.
My m13 lyre is much more reed friendly. The bd5 required the most hollowed out reeds in the box and the response was garbage for me. I had to work way too hard to get the clarity I wanted.
James Garcia
Bass Clarinet/Clarinet III, Des Moines Symphony Orchestra
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Author: ruben
Date: 2024-01-19 23:20
Dear Paul, What do you thonk of this HD material? -a plus or just a gimmick?
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-01-20 00:42
I don't have any direct experience with it at all. BUT there was a line of Zinner German mouthpieces made of a much heavier rod rubber that was a rusty orange color.
Now it's time for the CSO story.
At one point when Carlo Maria Giulini took over the Chicago Symphony he requested AND GOT the clarinet section to use German System Wurlitzer clarinets for Mozart and Mahler (he felt this was a better sonic ideal for those works) for a brief period of time. All other issues aside, the clarinet section finally found a mouthpiece that worked well enough for them given all the constraints and it was this dense, orangish Zinner. It was however only the best they could do under less than ideal circumstances so I'm not sure Larry Combs, Greg Smith or Lawrie Bloom would have really high opinions of the material despite their "success."
I think though that it would probably have the same effect as a fat-boy barrel or one of those Jonathan Copeland upside down barrels centering the sound to a degree.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed
Date: 2024-01-20 03:34
Quote:
I had to work way too hard to get the clarity I wanted.
Yes, I think you are probably fighting against the tendency of the mouthpiece. I remember many years ago I played a mouthpiece made by a well known maker at the time who went toward the "darker" or slightly unfocussed side of the spectrum. There was a quality I found appealing about that mouthpiece. BUT, to get the resonant and responsive sound I was looking for, it was a struggle, both in the playing and in choosing reeds
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Author: Patrick
Date: 2024-01-20 04:31
I tried out the BD2 in December in LA at the Vandoren studios. I think they are working to make it available in high density. The model wasn’t for me, I tend to prefer the the BD4 and BD6. The BD5 for some reason does not work with me. The high density material is really nice.
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-01-20 13:07
Paul, just a small correction: According to Greg Smith's own writing here, it was Daniel Barenboim who was behind the use of German system clarinets at CSO - starting in '94.
Interestingly, Greg also wrote: "The funny thing is that Barenboim can never tell which horns we are using. Of course the sound is wonderfully different to us and our colleagues."
See the whole thread: http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=18782&t=18738
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-01-20 16:35
Thanks Micke!
Glad to have the correct record.
I don't see the reference to the mouthpiece they settled on in the end. Of course I also seem to recall my source was email correspondence with Mr. Smith.......but if it appeared here, please someone correct me on that.
...............Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2024-01-20 16:46)
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-01-21 14:55
Paul, I got intrigued about what mouthpiece/mouthpieces Mr. Smith used on his German system clarinets (sorry for the off-topic).
At least in 2001, according to his writing here, he used a Viotto German N1 (see his 2nd post): http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=59785&t=59755
Also Mr. Combs used the same, at the same time (his post is towards the end): http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=49508&t=49383
The "first year or so" on the German system, Mr. Smith used his "own French mouthpiece": http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=212080&t=212009
It's of course possible that either prior or after Mr. Smith was on a Viotto N1, that he used a Zinner.
As I've told also in another previous thread, I have one of those "orangish" Wurlitzer mouthpieces, which I got together with my clarinets from them in 2002. It's indeed heavy (36.87 g compared to its black acrylic "twin" which is 25.51 g), but probably due to some kind of metal inserts (invisible), not the rubber formula itself. As I understand, these were quite popular at the time. Whether it was made by Zinner or in-house at Wurlitzer, I don't know (according to Ed Pillinger's PhD-paper from the year 2000, and his visit to Wurlitzer, they had made their mouthpieces in-house for the past 20 years, but prior to that they were made by Zinner - but of course some special material/model could still have been made by Zinner also later).
Post Edited (2024-01-23 02:32)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-01-21 22:16
The composition of the Wurlitzer produced mouthpieces may have been a complex issue. As the first linked thread mentions, the CSO went through this amazing commitment back in 1994. My Wurlitzer order (pair of 100Cs) was ordered in 1980 and was completed in Fall of 1984. With those clarinets I was sent about six different Wurlitzer model German mouthpieces; black, clear, smokey clear; all were made of acrylic. When I pressed Wurlitzer about this their response back in 1984 was that ALL of their mouthpieces were made of this acrylic material and they had been "for some time."
Makes this a bit of a mystery
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2024-01-25 15:48
Generally, I'm not a fan of BDs response but BD2 might be the exception as will be able to use harder reeds. Still not available on Amazon so I give It a try. BD2 in HD material probably would be even better.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-01-25 20:16
I got confirmation that the BD2 is not currently available in the HD material "but perhaps in the future."
..............Paul Aviles
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