 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2023-12-12 00:28
An articulated C#/G# mechanism allows for a clean B-C#/F#-G# trill, but doesn't allow for altissimo fingerings with the C#/G#-key kept open while a r.h. ring-key is depressed (since the latter forces the former to close). Thus altissimo "long F" will not work, as well as some alternate fingerings for at least F# and G.
On soprano clarinet I personally would never trade off those alternate fingerings just for a cleaner B-C#/F#-G# trill - and thus never be interested in a soprano clarinet with an articulated C#/G# (except a mechanically different - and lot simpler - German version, with no restrictions at all for altissimo fingerings).
But how about bass? On an old Leblanc bass I have access to, both the long F and long F# are way out of tune, and thus useless - but how about other basses?
If long F's are generally useless on basses, and thus an articulated C#/G# not allowing that fingering wouldn't matter, would there be any other possible drawbacks from this mechanism?
I'm asking especially with the coming Backun Q bass in mind, with an articulated C#/G#.
Also the "short" Buffet Tosca 1185 bass (down to low D, without the low C extension) has it, but judging from pictures it seems switchable to an on or off position. The Backun mechanism however isn't switchable. (Edit: This latter isn't correct, see another of my posts below.)
Post Edited (2023-12-12 23:43)
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Author: ebonite
Date: 2023-12-12 01:19
I would guess that some players need the non-articulated C#/G# for multiphonics
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-12-12 03:43
i have never seen an articulated g# on any bass clarinet. is there such a thing?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-12-12 09:25
>> i have never seen an articulated g# on any bass clarinet. is there such a thing? <<
A few have them, yes. also several others come with a "two part" C#/G# mechanism so it's possible to add it by simply adding a linkage arm from the right hand stack to the C#/G# key.
>> I would guess that some players need the non-articulated C#/G# for multiphonics <<
Yes that's the reason I prefer not to have an articulated C#/G#. I often use a few multiphonics that need it to be open.
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2023-12-12 23:33
Edit: I just found out from Backun themselves that the articulated C#/G# on their Q bass actually is switchable - simply by the adjustment screw that is made long enough to disengage the coupling where it sits, just by unscrewing it as far as needed. Sounds to me as a piece of thoughtful design.
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Author: tdufka
Date: 2023-12-13 10:00
Attachment: Screenshot 2023-12-12 at 9.59.23 PM.png (1454k)
Das Blashaus offers an add-on mechanism modeled after the Buffet 1185, which is soldered onto the existing key, and allows switching between articulated and non-articulated.
I had this modification done to my previous Selmer Privilege and it allows the best of both worlds. The articulated C#/G# is the default setting for playing rapid passages, but it is true that it prevents multiphonic fingerings. With the flick of a finger that key becomes non articulated.
The Buffet 1185 system is very slick. It has a small magnet that holds the movable arm in place, but that still allows quick changes. Not sure why this is not a standard feature on all bass clarinets.
Post Edited (2023-12-13 10:10)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-12-13 17:19
>> the articulated C#/G# on their Q bass actually is switchable - simply by the adjustment screw that is made long enough to disengage the coupling where it sits, just by unscrewing it as far as needed <<
This is switchable, though a bit slow and the player needs to be able to make this adjustment, which is absolutely possible for some players, but a lot of players are so far off even the slightest technical sense they would definitely overshoot it by a marathon. Still better than not being able to adjust it.
>> Attached are pictures of the three basses that at least I know about, with an articulated C#/G# mechanism. <<
I don't think I've seen the Tosca one in real life (I've seen Tosca basses but don't think they had it). Hard to tell from the photo, but if the swiveling plate has a hard stop in the engaged position, then it could be adjustable even during a concert/piece. A big 'if' since it's unclear.
A large enough slot screwdriver is kind of chunky and most are pretty big too. A hex screw with a tiny Allen key could make it even more portable and convenient... maybe even fit a place for it on the clarinet itself.
Though I imagine most leave it one way or the other pretty much all the time.
Post Edited (2023-12-14 10:29)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-12-14 01:58
Attachment: prestigebass1.jpg (287k)
Attachment: prestigebass2.jpg (274k)
Attachment: prestigebass3.jpg (269k)
I had an articulated C#/G# fitted to my Prestige bass not long after I bought it. More recently I made and fitted a similar type to another Prestige bass, only this time with the adjusting screw going through the overlever to make contact with the linkage arm soldered to the C#/G# pad cup as well as being easily accessible for easy adjustments. See attached photos.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2023-12-22 10:40
Hi Chris, great thought.
As a thought, you could run an adjustment screw though the bridging arm and shorten the arm coming up. Ths would allow it to be turned on and off
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2023-12-22 20:47
Apart from losing long F, the other big disadvantage of an articulated G# is that it's opened by a spring, rather than directly by a key. Therefore, if the pad gets sticky you have the risk that it won't open at all. My 1983 Selmer bass has the articulated mechanism, but for this reason I wish it didn't. I suppose I could bend the articulating arm to disarm it (as it were), but this would feel like vandalism. Unless I'm mistaken, there isn't an inbuilt option to disable it by choice; I think this is a pity, as the options shown above show that it's not complicated to implement.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-12-23 12:40
>> Apart from losing long F, the other big disadvantage of an articulated G# is that it's opened by a spring, rather than directly by a key. <<
That's not exactly a disadvantage of the articulated C#/G#, but the two part lever and key mechanism. Some clarinets (like current Buffet) have the two parts but not the articulation with C#/G#.
>> My 1983 Selmer bass has the articulated mechanism, but for this reason I wish it didn't. I suppose I could bend the articulating arm to disarm it (as it were), but this would feel like vandalism. <<
I bent that arm for one player but it was because he wanted to be able to play the multiphonics that require it.
Selmer basses have the two part mechanism to allow the articulation. If you just bend the arm you would lose the articulation with C#/G#, but it would still have the two part mechanism, with the possible problem of the pad sticking still remaining (same as current Buffet basses). You'd only lose the articulation, without any effect on the issue you have with it.
If you want to solve the "problem" at the expense of the articulation, then you could in addition to disabling it, maybe add some kind of fork linkage between the lever and the key, forcing it to open when pressing the lever.
Post Edited (2023-12-24 09:57)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-02-01 19:55
With articulated keywork, you have to balance the spring tension so the open sprung pad cup is much stronger sprung than you think it should be and that way you will significantly reduce the likelihood of the pad sticking.
All too often the open sprung pad cup's needle spring is given too little tension and it just flaps about, but the spring tension needs to be beefed up to counteract the potential stickiness and the touchpiece obviously has to be sprung with greater tension to close the pad cup, but doesn't have to be sprung so heavily it squeezes the life out of the pad.
Balance the springing intelligently, use pads which are less likely to stick and use low friction silencing materials like teflon sheet on the linkage and you'll have a largely trouble-free articulated C#/G# mechanism. Likewise with articulated G# and low C# on saxes - give the pad cups more spring tension to ensure they'll open and balance the closing spring tension on the touches/levers accordingly as well as taking into account the torsion of the keywork to ensure you won't have any leaks elsewhere.
It's come to my attention that some people who ought to know better don't know the true meaning of an articulated mechanism and mistake linking the G# touchpiece on saxes to the other LH pinky touches is the definition of an articulated G# - that's just linked and not articulated in the true sense.
Articulated mechanisms have a strong closed sprung touchpiece that releases a lower tension open sprung pad cup (or part of a fully automatic mechanism) and the open sprung pad cup (or linkage) is then overcome by another key to close it (eg. RH ring keys on clarinets or any RH fingerplate on saxes) whilst the touchpiece is still held down to facilitate trills and tremolos and other intervals.
The linked G# touch on saxes is only done to make large interval slurs easier without having to slide the LH pinky from one touch to another (eg. low C#/Db to G#/Ab and low Bb or B to G#/Ab).
I think some full Mazzeo system clarinets had the Ab/Eb key linked to the articulated C#/G# so that facilitated a G#/Ab to C#/Db slur without having to use the LH C#/G# touch at all whilst holding the Ab/Eb touch down. The problem with that is you can't use the Ab/Eb key for altissimo E as you'd get altissimo F instead (Sp.Th. oxx|oooAb/Eb), although as it's on a Selmer clarinet, you probably don't need the Ab/Eb key for the altissimo E anyway.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2024-02-01 21:37
>> Aside from missing the long F, the other major drawback of an articulated G# is that it is opened by a spring rather than a key. As a result, if the pad becomes too sticky, it may fail to open at all. <<
As mentioned in several posts above, the former is a drawback of the articulated C#/G#, the latter is a drawback of the two part design. The former requires the latter, but some instruments (e.g. Buffet 1193) have the sprung key without the articulation.
Take whatever you want from this statistically, but in over 20 years of playing this model bass, mostly in a climate that magnifies this problem, I had the pad actually stick maybe three times.
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Author: ghoulcaster
Date: 2024-02-03 11:47
I’ve always wondered, is the same key on Selmer alto clarinets a “two part design”? (It is hard to tell from pics, whereas on Buffets it obviously isn’t)
i.e. when you press the G#/C# key, can you push down the pad cup with your finger, allowing the potential of an articulated lever arm to be added, or is it inexorably linked to the pinky touch?
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