 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kilo
Date: 2023-11-11 15:59
Légère has announced the upcoming release of a newly-developed reed for Bb Soprano clarinet and saxophone. It is aimed at providing a reed for classical and symphonic players. I'll definitely be trying the new product (a tenor saxophone reed to use on bass clarinet) and will review it here when it arrives.
I'll be interested in making a comparison with the European Cut B.C. and American Cut tenor reeds (both at 3.25 strength) which I'm currently using. I find that with these two cuts the Euro works better on my Fobes CF and the American on my Grabner. When I switch them, the American sounds a bit tinny on the Fobes and the Euro a bit stuffy on the Grabner. It would be nice to find one cut that works on both of these pieces. I also use a more open refaced mouthpiece (bought from Keith Bradbury) for outdoor playing and might buy a slightly softer reed for it, depending on the results with the other two.
Here's a link to the Légère announcement:
https://www.legere.com/products/french-cut-saxophone-clarinet-reed/
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-11-11 16:57
The stock seems quite a bit thicker than the Euro cut or Soprano Saxophone Signature reeds. This is a really welcome change on so many levels if they work as well as those reeds. One nagging complaint I've had has been that I cannot often use the same ligatures I had used for cane because they are not "small enough" to hold the very thin stock of the Euro design.
Then there is the sound. I have come to accept that the sound of the reeds (really quite close to cane) is a result of the material, cut and size (ALL dimensions) of the Legere reeds. However, I could not help wondering if they could achieve that balance of elements using a thicker stock for the reed.
Keeping my fingers crossed for this release !!!!!
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2023-11-12 01:52
They certainly used all the right "buzz words" in the announcement. "Dark", "responsive", "richness", "stability".
Hopefully, they can deliver!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-11-12 04:35
The warp thing has come up before and I’ve experienced “a happening” that may be the same thing.
I recently reconfigured to a rather soft strength and ligature combo that gave me quite a bit of amplitude and resonance. What did I do with that? I blasted away of course. Within a few days I saw some waviness at the tip and discovered some stress fracture extending a few millimeters down from the tip (you can make them out shining a flashlight straight across (perpendicularly to the length of the reed) the tip. These are not tears through the plastic, just fractures.
Is that what’s happening to you guys?
………Paul Aviles
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-11-12 17:23
mine will no longer play at all when they go bad. there is no visible signs of damage
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-11-12 22:56
My wife uses the European cut on the bass and it tends to warp gradually closing the tip opening.
From past discussions on the forum, I've got the impression that these reeds eventually fail in range of ways, although they seemingly tend to fail in the same way for each individual.
I don't imaging that these issues are likely to change with a new cut, but it might otherwise be a winner.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2023-11-12 23:29
I personally prefer the American Cut Tenor Sax Reeds on both bass clarinet AND tenor saxophone than the Euro Cut Bass Clarinet reeds, even though both reeds run at the same strength to me. The former reeds just sounds and respond better for me, perhaps on par with the cane reeds I also use (D'Addario Reserve, Vandoren Blue Box and V12). I use the 3.5 strength(comparable to Reserve 3.5+ and V12 3.5) on my Fobes 10K AP bass mouthpiece and a Strength 2 on my Vandoren T7 tenor m'piece. YMMV.
Having said that, I'm open to giving the Euro Cut another go as well as giving the French cut a shot if I get my hands on them.
Josh
Post Edited (2023-11-14 22:29)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-11-13 00:39
Attachment: Flash light to side.jpg (548k)
Attachment: View Edge.jpg (484k)
Attachment: Bend straight.jpg (581k)
Ok here are some ad hoc images to help with making these reeds last longer.
The first is just to show the fractures (flashlight shining from one side and a little from underneath)
The second image is supposed to show "looking along the edge of the reed." Do this to both sides and make it "straight on" rather than slightly to one side. These views will allow you to see where the reed has bent downward.
The last image is just placing the reed on the mouthpiece table at the point of the bend. Then you do a slight pulling upward of the stock (maybe one or two tries.......slow is better). Then check again. The edge will ideally become straight again. I am doing this now every week or so and don't really see a point where the Legere will ever wear out!!!!
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: kilo
Date: 2023-11-13 00:43
Quote:
mine will no longer play at all when they go bad.
What do you mean by "go bad" – do they spoil and give off odors? What I've found is that they soften a bit and become less responsive. Sometimes they start to fray on the sides. I do know that when I replace an old one with a new one of the same strength I can tell the difference immediately.
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2023-11-13 10:27
You may wish to try the studio t/sax reed. Imo I found it to be an improvement in all aspects over the b/clarinet reeds. Personal choice
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-11-13 11:06
I've had success righting distortions in these reeds by clothes pegging them flat onto a piece of glass and putting them into a warm oven. I heat the oven and then turn it off and wait untill it's just tolerable to touch inside before putting in the reed. Their resistance to being bent in shape under ambient temperatures is abviously a fundamental requirement of their design.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-11-13 19:09
by going bad i mean they simply will not produce any sound at all-its as tho the mpcs is plugged up. as a test- i am going to try pauls theory that the tip warps so it is closing the tip of the mpc in effect. i wll put one of the no longer producing sound reeds on a wide open tip tenor sax mpc and report back
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-11-13 22:36
Sorry for the clumsy explanation above.
If you look along the edge of one side of a Legere (as if you are checking the sharpness of a blade) you will see whether the reed has bent toward the mouthpiece. I only point out that one can simply bend it back to "straight."
I have started this just a few months ago and now only use ONE REED AT A TIME. Once I bend a reed straight that has "weakened" with use, it is as good as new and lasts that way for a few weeks at a time (I don't just straighten arbitrarily, I check ever time I put the reed back on the mouthpiece).
............Paul Aviles
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Author: kilo
Date: 2023-11-14 01:15
Paul, do you store the reed in its original "coffin" or do you use another reed holder? I just checked all my active reeds and even went through some of my discards but I haven't noticed the downward bend that you and Julian have mentioned. It's definitely something I'll watch out for going forward.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-11-14 02:45
low and behold -i tried the non playing reed on a huge tip tenor mpc and it plays!. at least i now have a use for the warped ones now but still legere needs to address this isue with the euro cuts
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-11-14 04:05
I have been using plastic "LaVoz type" reed holders for many years in the hopes that storage between plays would straighten out any "wear." I have to say that sadly that is not the case. Bending them straight again must be a purposeful action.
Personally I see too much potential for damage to happen taking the Legeres in and out of their coffins. Sitting there floating is space is not the issue for me. Plus the coffins take up way more space than a reed guard that holds four reeds.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2023-11-14 04:50
What is this "French Cut" and "American Cut" all about? Is that just some kind of marketing hype?
Post Edited (2023-11-14 05:08)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-11-14 05:36
Bottom line.........just names.
The original series of reeds from Legere were named after Canadian Provinces. My favorite at the time was the Quebec. It had a nicely defined heart and was the best of that passeli, yet no where near what they've become.
It does appear from the images that this reed may actually have more standard French reed dimensions unlike the Euro Cut which is as wide as a soprano saxophone reed. Those don't work with Vandoren M/O ligatures if that's your thing.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2023-11-14 06:31
Ok, thanks. So what are "French reed dimensions"? Isn't a reed is a reed no matter what country you're in?
I do get confused about all the country references of stuff on here. Like a "German bore" or an "American" mouthpiece. How about a "British" style. How does everyone know what those mean and what the differences are?
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Author: donald
Date: 2023-11-14 12:54
Johnny, be prepared for a cavalcade of information.... but I'll cover the "French reed". There is a standard size for reeds commonly used with a French system clarinet and mouthpiece. The overall length of the reed and shape of the butt end may vary (the butt may taper, so it's slightly narrower at the butt) but the width of the tip is fairly standard (I can't remember the measurement, something around 12.5mm?).
The German system clarinet is designed for different mouthpiece dimensions. The tip of the mouthpiece/reed is narrower by about 1mm, and the mouthpiece tenon is longer. There are many other design differences, but those are the most obvious and easily noted ones.
There is not really any such thing as an "American mouthpiece", there is a wide variation in design and always has been. However, it was and still is popular among many players (and some significant mouthpiece makers) to have a mouthpiece with a bore that was bigger where the baffle meets the bore, and tapered slightly (by fractions of a mm) to the smaller exit bore at the tenon.
AFAIK that would be only characteristic that I could fairly say was "American", and is the reason that the Moennig barrel, and the many other tapered barrels became so popular in USA (while largely ignored elsewhere until the last 20 years).
I NEVER met a player from UK/Europe with a custom bore barrel until the 2000s, prior to that most people outside the USA just played the barrel that came with the instrument.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-11-14 16:43
For the most part, if you play a standard Boehm clarinet, most reeds that you run into will fit. So you don't have to "worry about it."
Donald summarizes the differences well above. I'd say though where you may have run into skinnier or smaller reeds is with Vandoren Black Master or White Master reeds. The Black Master was made (in theory but not really) to fit the smaller Austrian mouthpiece. I would add in reality it was more just marketing to the broader non-Austrian audience. The White Master.......became a real German sized reed when Vandoren got some serious input from Karl Leister. So if you have a German mouthpiece (smaller as stated above such as Gleichweit) you would have a better match for the lay with the Vandoren White Master reeds. Though there are Germans (including Karl Leister) who have used Boehm reeds on their German mouthpieces.
The British thing is almost a thing of the past. Back in the 80s there was still a tendency for top players in Britain to use large bore Boosey and Hawkes Symphony 1010 clarinets. What was specific about them was the bore to the mouthpiece. To match the acoustic of the clarinet bore, the mouthpiece bore had to be cylindrical up to the tone chamber (unlike every other mouthpiece.......even German.....which is conical in shape). Fortunately, even the Boosey 1010 style mouthpieces still used standard Boehm shaped and sized reeds.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: ISM
Date: 2023-11-14 18:45
Johnny,
Regarding the difference between French and American cut reeds, this is how Vandoren describes it:
“Filed reeds, or French Cut as they are sometimes called, are reeds with straight horizontal line cut just above the bark. Unfiled reeds, or American Cut, are identified by their distinct “U” shape at the bottom of the vamp, and no line. This feature has very little, if any, influence on the tone color of the reed.”
Imre
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-11-14 19:38
The people at Legere tell me that on 12/1 they will make the reed available for sale on their website.
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-11-14 20:21
Sounds to me like you guys with the bending are biting the reed closed every time you play. That's bad technique. Get a softer reed or a more closed mouthpiece. Legere does run harder than their cane counterparts. I have no bending issues with mine. But they do tend to split at end of life and get very buzzy. Not crazy about their tone on clarinet either. Maybe the French Cut will be an improvement. We shall see.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-11-14 22:18
Hi ISM ,
I think that that description of the "French File Cut" reeds by Vandoren must have just been intended as a visual guide to distinguish them from "American Cut" reeds . The" French file cut" reeds have a domed spine fairing into the tip to form something of a point in the heart material which leaves the thin material of the tip sort of winged. In cane they are generally considered to produce a darker tone than the " American Cut".
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2023-11-15 05:03
Thank you for the replies. So I left out the Austrians. Shame on me!
Now I'll need to look out for the next "Turkish" ligature, or maybe a Canadian facing. (_8-)
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-11-15 06:41
mine were 2.25 strength used on a selmer c* bass clarinet mpc. bass clarinet has to be played with a loose embuchere -if not it will jump to harmonic .
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Author: Clarineat
Date: 2023-11-18 02:01
I had the prototypes a few months ago and received some last week. These are the best Legere yet. Fantastic response, tone, and articulation! People are going to love these, and watch coming soon on the podcast for a conversation with Legere about these new reeds.
Sean Perrin
Host of the Clarineat Podcast
Listen FREE at www.clarineat.com
hello@clarineat.com
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-11-18 05:54
Clarineat wrote:
> I had the prototypes a few months ago and received some last
> week. These are the best Legere yet. Fantastic response, tone,
> and articulation! People are going to love these, and watch
> coming soon on the podcast for a conversation with Legere about
> these new reeds.
>
How was the intonation Sean?
I've always struggled keeping pitch with the various Legere models for Soprano clarinet.
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Author: kilo
Date: 2023-11-18 15:27
Quote:
how long before the bass clarinet model or tenor sax is out?
French Cut reeds for alto sax, tenor sax, and Bb clarinet were described in the Légère link provided in the first post. Why do you think they all won't be released at the same time?
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