 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2023-10-31 12:55
You repair people here, are you also locating hard-to-find leaks on clarinet bodies by this water immersion method, as can be seen here: https://www.earspasm.com/why-earspasm (scroll down to the heading "Bath time!")
Before seeing this myself, I would have assumed such as an absolute no-no (especially for wooden bodies - but can't tell from the above videos if it's used also for such ones), but it's obviously most effective as leak detection. Surely they immediately afterwards also dry everything out, thus avoiding any rust forming on springs and similar. Since air is continuously pumped into the bore, also no water would get in there but only on the outer surface.
When such an immersion is done just quickly (and there wouldn't be any reason to extended it, since leaks show up instantly), there probably isn't any risk for cracks even on wooden bodies - but I'm still curious hearing about how common this practice is among other repairers.
If this isn't your method, what's your way of searching for similar leaks?
Post Edited (2023-10-31 14:37)
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2023-10-31 19:34
It's actually a very common and effective method to search for leaks. While pads are generally not waterproof, the wooden body of an instrument can be submerged in water without issue. In fact, during an overhaul the body joints will often be washed in oil soap and water before drying and oiling the wood. Here's a good video showing how this is done:
https://youtu.be/C2dXarshY7o?si=bMT1ewf5zqwdwlvF&t=580
-JDbassplayer
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-10-31 19:37
This does indeed look like something one would never want to do, but I suppose as these intrument are new, they are freshly treated and so probably won't absorb a drop of water during a brief emersion. It's a lot of trouble to go to to find a leak, but perhaps there is no other way.
The only similar method which comes to mind, would be applying water with detergent to suspect points and looking for bubbles as one does for gas leaks, but I don't know if that method is advisable for clarinets .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2023-11-01 00:57
When restoring or refurbishing clarinets I routinely strip off the keywork and give the bodies a light scrub in soapy water with a soft toothbrush and then shake them and let them air-dry. I just use dishwashing soap. I've also used the immersion method when chasing a hard-to-find leak. It turned out to be a porous spot in the woodwork. I removed the keywork, plugged the tone holes
and one end with laboratory corks' For the other end I drilled a cork and fitted some narrow polythene tubing, immersed the joint and blew through the pipe. The leak was immediately obvious.
Tony F.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-11-01 04:42
When I first was told about this I too thought it was madness, however, if you think about it the interior gets "immersed" with condensation all the time. Also, there have been innumerable posts regarding the density of African Blackwood and how impervious it is to moisture beyond what is really close to the surface. Cracks are a consequence of weaknesses already present within the wood. Further I would say that the temperature differential between our body temperature influenced air vs ambient temperature is a much bigger deal than moisture.
There is a point about the needle springs, but once you dry the horn after immersion everything should be fine. Don't do it with keys on though.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: moma4faith
Date: 2023-11-05 05:06
My beloved Buffet clarinet was taken to a trusted music store for an "overhaul" of the pads, springs, and corks. I asked that nothing be done to the wood, because it was beautiful, with very tight pores. Years before, Morrie Backun looked at my clarinet and said it was one of the "good ones" from the 70's. Anywho, the overhaul happens, I go to pick up my clarinet, open the case, and the wood looked almost ashy. The pores looked open and grains of the wood were very visible. I immediately asked what they did to the wood and the tech said they "cavitated" the wood to clean it. I was aghast. I knew that brass instruments can have that done, but to have that done to my clarinet? Holy ####!. I had a fit and they tried to explain that they "soaked" the wood instead. Either way, they ruined the wood. Both inside and outside were changed by whatever they did.
I said all that to say I would never want my clarinet wood submerged.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-11-05 11:17
Surely they didn't soak it in water !!?
Could it have been an oil bath that reacted with a Buffet lacquered finish ?
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-11-05 12:07
Ps.
A varnished finish fills the pores and wood grain making them less visible.
Whatever they did would probably be best described as ruining the finish....not the wood itself...... Still.....I totally get you disgust.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: donald
Date: 2023-11-05 13:17
Just to clarify my earlier statement....
Yes, I have heard of (and know more than one repair shop that does...) soaking the BODY of a wooden clarinet in water as part of the cleaning process. AFTER KEYS HAVE BEEN REMOVED.
I am personally not fond of this idea, but accept that it can be done without wrecking the clarinet.
- sometimes there are issues with finish etc (as outlined by moma4faith, I've heard stories like that before...)
- also, if there has been work "fine tuning" the instrument that has involved the tone holes being filled the process of soaking/cleaning may compromise the tuning work (depending on what has been used to fill tone holes etc). I know a principal player from an international orchestra who personally instructed the techs NOT to do this as a number of tone holes had material in them etc.... and the clarinet was cleaned, all material removed etc totally destroying hours of work fine tuning the instruments. AND that was with a repair shop he had "history" and good relations with ?????
HOWEVER
I would NEVER allow a shop to immerse my instrument in water with the keys etc still on????? Nah. Nope. NEVER. No way. Nada. NEVER.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-11-05 18:39
Attachment: P1010001 - Copy.JPG (693k)
You're only immersing the joint or part of the joint in water for as long as you need to see where the bubbles are coming from - that's just the joint without any keywork and all the toneholes and tenons plugged up. You're not leaving it soaking in there for any more than maybe several seconds as opposed to minutes or hours, so the immersion is hardly going to cause any issues, then it's dried immediately afterwards. Ideally you'd remove all the springs, pillars and screws so there's nowhere for water to get under and remain or anything steel that can rust.
With overhauls and if the joints are particularly grubby, there's no harm in washing them in soapy water and scrubbing them with a soft nylon bristle brush, both the outside and the bore as most of what ends up in and on a clarinet is water soluble. Again you're only submerging the joints for as long as you're scrubbing them as opposed to leaving them in to soak. Then dry the joints and oil them once fully dried. I did that on this old Metzler boxwood 6 key clarinet as it was filthy (and gave it a good oiling once the joints were left to fully dry) and have done it on grenadilla oboes and clarinets that were grotty.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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