 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2023-09-21 20:41
Assemble your clarinet by pushing with no twisting. If it not going on easily then apply cork grease . Avoid twisting as it can put stress on keys, posts, and possibly alter fine regulation.
Sorry if this is old news. It is no doubt way down the list of important clarinet topics. It was brought to mind as my oboe technician dealt with some posts that were slightly loose and causing problems. I think I was complicit with my assembly technique.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-09-21 20:46
Thanks for saying that. My clarinet is so hard to assemble that it hurts my wrists to jam it together, and I have to push the bell against the floor to do it. I will ask at the shop if they can fix that.
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-09-21 22:10
SunnyDaze wrote:
> Thanks for saying that. My clarinet is so hard to assemble that
> it hurts my wrists to jam it together, and I have to push the
> bell against the floor to do it. I will ask at the shop if they
> can fix that.
Have you tried cork grease?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-09-21 23:16
Never heard the advice to avoid torsional motion. I don’t see how that’s practical.
That said, if assembly is slightly over resistant (not involving the wood of course), you should then reapply some cork grease.
……….Paul Aviles
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-09-21 23:20
I think mine just really needs the corks adjusted. I'll ask about that, because it's going into the shop tomorrow. The tech will know how to get it right. Thanks :-)
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Author: moma4faith
Date: 2023-09-22 02:31
The last two instruments I've gotten back from the shop with new tenon cork have come with cork that just doesn't respond well to grease. It is almost like the quality of the cork has gone down. My clarinet that hasn't needed cork in years has smoother, better gliding cork with or without cork grease. It's weird.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2023-09-22 03:45
Assembly should avoid any binding or stiction. If, after assembly, any tension, rotational or otherwise, remains, then that wood will vibrate differently. Not likely better.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-09-22 08:54
Twisting reduces friction so requires less force, including force from your hands on any keys. It adds force from another direction, but statistically, after decades, I see a minuscule amount of clarinets with keys bent from assembling and disassembling. At the top of my head I can't even remember one. Not twisting generally does nothing except requiring more force.
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-09-22 18:58
clarnibass wrote:
> Twisting reduces friction so requires less force, including
> force from your hands on any keys. It adds force from another
> direction, but statistically, after decades, I see a minuscule
> amount of clarinets with keys bent from assembling and
> disassembling. At the top of my head I can't even remember one.
> Not twisting generally does nothing except requiring more
> force.
Thank you!
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Author: kilo
Date: 2023-09-22 19:32
Quote:
It is almost like the quality of the cork has gone down.
This is likely true. I took my Royal Global Max bass for annual regulation and had my tech recork the upper joint because it was starting to crumble in one area. He told me that high quality sheet cork was getting difficult to find and a lot more expensive.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2023-09-22 20:35
I’m not advocating no twisting motion. This is just a test to see if cork grease is necessary. I certainly twist my barrel joint when making small tuning adjustments.
The clarinet corks have a bearing on things so have your clarinet tech make things fit well. Not too tight, not too loose.
.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: kurth83
Date: 2023-09-23 00:23
I can assemble and disassemble my clarinet without really touching the keywork. It took some practice to figure out a way to do it. Not sure if it is really necessary either, but it's what I do. I find I have to grease corks every few days to keep things easy to do without using too much pressure. I use very little twisting, just press-on straight, so pretty easy to know if more grease is needed with that method.
Aging classical trumpet player beginning to learn clarinet as a second.
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2023-09-23 12:28
What an extraordinary thread! How to make something simple, complicated!
If the corks are correctly adjusted with just enough grease you should always use a degree of turning as you assemble - never simply push!
Similarly, if the hands are far apart as you assemble top and bottom joints you risk slipping and breaking the tenon. Hands should work closely together and a properly adjusted cork with minimal grease should present no issues to the keys or setup whatsoever.
I do think a lot of people here are over-thinking the issue.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-09-23 16:55
I think that "Only as needed and well rubbed into the cork." is the quick answer to the topic question.
I suspect that a lot of people get off on the wrong foot with cork grease because they buy their new instrument and are told " Use plenty of cork grease!". But "plenty" should not be interpreted as a reference to how much grease you should apply to the cork, so much as a reference to how often you will have to do it.
After an adaptation period as the new cork achieves its long term compression-set fit, the frequency of needing to apply cork grease drops considerably. If it doesn't then the cork will need a little sanding down.
As for how to assemble/disassemble the instrument, I think that the best method is PAYING ATTENTION .It doesn't even involve a bank transfer...unlike NOT paying attention which very well might.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: kdk
Date: 2023-09-23 17:41
The main problem with overuse of cork grease is when kids pile it on, get it on their fingers, and then spread the stuff to keys all over the instrument. Or apply so much (usually from a chapstick-type container without spreading it over the cork) that it oozes out of the joint when the clarinet is assembled, again resulting in the grease getting carried to other parts. IMO a mature player should use as much or as little cork grease as he or she needs to produce a comfortable result.
Karl
Post Edited (2023-09-23 21:39)
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2023-09-23 20:34
enough grease you should always use a degree of turning as you assemble - never simply push!
What is your reasoning? You say “never” without an explanation.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-09-23 21:50
I agree Arnoldstang,
Twisting a little back and forth while pulling has ever been the smoothest way of removing something cylindrical from where it is held by friction. Twisting readily breaks that binding resistance between the two surfaces, and once broken they then can "glide" so separating more freely. Obviously this works for the reverse assembly similarly.
I'm a firm believer in working with the laws of physics on my side.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2023-09-23 23:04
I twist. Haven't had a keys problem that I can recall.
Side note-- when washing mouthpiece after use dry the cork and check that it goes into the barrel easily. If not, add cork grease.
I also use cork grease on a clarinet that may not get use for a long while. Not sure if that lengthens the life of the cork, but can't hurt.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2023-09-23 23:05)
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-09-23 23:21
I’m a veritable Chubby Checker when assembling my clarinet.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-09-24 12:24
With the bass clarinet, there seems to be a universally recognized method for assembly/ disassembly which doesn't leave much room for interpretation. Also, to separate the two body sections without a bit of twisting is, above all, UNCONTROLLED . Aside from frequently glancing off your bridge keys, knocking out a fellow band memer's teeth with the head of the top joint is no way to make friends.
But on all types of clarinet I think that a little twisting facilitates and adds control to the operation. I've also seeing tenon corks damaged from the joint just being shoved together.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2023-09-24 12:42
The link to assembling the clarinet is more or less OK as far as it goes although things would be much clearer in a video.
The big problem, in my opinion, is assembling the instrument from the top down. It should be assembled from the bottom up.
The reason for this has been demonstrated by two pupils of mine who succeeded in dropping their instruments on hard floors just prior to adding the bell. The thin, delicate tenon on the bottom was smashed irreparably by the weight of the clarinet and the instrument ruined. A transplanted replacement joint can feel quite different to the original.
The method of correct assembly should be instilled from the first lesson so that good care becomes a habit. I see students and amateur players doing horrendous things whereby an accident is just a question of when!
Don't even get me started about leaving instruments on chairs during rehearsal breaks or even on stands, unattended.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-09-24 13:53
The thing I hadn't realised was that it's okay to put too much and then take some back off. It's so hard to wash a clarinet that I've been putting cork grease on very infrequently to avoid turning the instrument into a slithery mess.
I really liked a suggestion, made some time ago, that it's good to put cork grease on when putting the instrument away, rather than before playing. That means if the player gets it all over their fingers then they don't also get it all over their keys.
I will try this new method and see how it goes.
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2023-09-24 16:19
You shouldn't need to wash anything. If you inadvertently apply too much simply use a strong cloth to wipe the cork with a firm grip and the grease will reduce.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2023-09-24 17:44
SunnyDaze wrote:
> The thing I hadn't realised was that it's okay to put too much
> and then take some back off.
You shouldn't take this as support for globbing the grease on with the intent to remove it afterward. It's cleaner and more controlled to put a little on and, if it isn't enough for comfortable assembly, rub on a little more.
Also, I don't think anyone has mentioned the idea that different tenon corks may need different amounts of grease. I grease my mouthpiece and top tenon (the one that goes into the bottom of the barrel) more than the middle tenon or the bell tenon. The reason is that the barrel has to move easily for tuning (but not slide back down) and the mouthpiece has to be easily removeable for instrument changes.
The middle joint only needs to allow comfortable assembly. I once decades ago had the bottom of my clarinet slip out and fall to floor during a performance because I was only holding on to the upper section with my left hand. I had greased the tenon too heavily (the cork was also a little loose-fitting).
My clarinet case, unfortunately, stores the bell and bottom section together. I have to keep that tenon greased just enough to keep the bell from getting stuck. I back the bell out a quarter inch to give a little "wiggle" room if it does get stuck.
Karl
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-09-24 19:07
Hi Karl,
Thank you for explaining all that. I always wondered how people could change mp in the middle of a performance without the reed moving out of position.
Jennifer
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2023-09-24 21:01
Yes, a fresh coating of cork grease, a good handgrip on both ligature and mouthpiece, and (optional) a quick tightening twist on the ligature are helpful to making the change.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-09-25 08:12
>> You shouldn't take this as support for globbing the grease on with the intent to remove it afterward. It's cleaner and more controlled to put a little on and, if it isn't enough for comfortable assembly, rub on a little more. <<
Yes. I'd say many if not most peeling tenon corks and "spinners" (tenon corks that didn't part but became unglued) that I see have a pile of cork grease at the bottom of the tenon, the most obvious sign of using too much. More often than not it seems to be the regular ("bad") type of cork grease.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-09-25 08:13
>> I’m not advocating no twisting motion. <<
Then this was confusing...
>> Assemble your clarinet by pushing with no twisting. If it not going on easily then apply cork grease . Avoid twisting as it can put stress on keys, posts, and possibly alter fine regulation. <<
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Author: Connor1700
Date: 2023-09-25 18:02
I see a few people stick the tenons in their MOUTHS, wetting the cork in place of using cork grease! Nasty!
I've also heard that the "chap stick" type grease has a high moisture content which will eventually undermine the glue causing the corks to detach from the tenon. I've always used La Tromba and have never had an issue with corks detaching.
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-09-26 18:22
I just take my clarinet to Jiffy Lube and let the pros handle it. Twist, push, whatever it takes.
But seriously, I can’t believe we’re even having an argument about such a common sense thing. A toddler could figure out how to put 5 tubes together (might miss the bridge though). Aren’t there much more important things to worry about.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2023-09-26 21:14
Connor1700 wrote:
> I see a few people stick the tenons in their MOUTHS, wetting
> the cork in place of using cork grease! Nasty!
>
Well, no, not "in place of" using cork grease, but in addition to using it. All wetting the *greased* cork does is make it a little more slippery.
Karl
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2023-09-27 06:35
Good point Lydian. What do you think a good topic would be?
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-09-27 06:58
Artists, events, recordings, repertoire, technique, doubling, playing different genres, history, unusual instruments, vintage instruments, anything but cork grease.
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Author: Connor1700
Date: 2023-09-27 07:39
lydian is right. Bacon grease is more interesting than tenon grease. ha ha
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-09-27 08:56
Hi Lydian,
Might it be possible for you to start threads on some of those topics and lead the discussion? I think people would be really interested and would learn a lot.
Thanks,
Jennifer
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2023-09-27 16:27
Why did it generate so many responses? Was it because I suggested doing something a different way?
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-09-27 16:49
Hi Arnoldstang,
For the newbies this kind of thread is absolutely brilliant. I've been wondering for years and didn't dare to ask. I'm really glad that you started it. I'm literally giving myself a wrist injury assembling my clarinet at the moment.
Maybe you were not right about not twisting, but you did raise a subject that was of interest. Some people on here are quite crabby and could perhaps learn to disgree with assertions in a more agreeable manner. If you see what I mean.
A bit of kindness goes a long way I reckon.
Jen
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2023-09-27 18:02
Thanks Jen, I appreciate tall, short, and crabby people ( for want of a better word) It is my habit to examine small things and their implications. This is not for everyone.
I am thin skinned but wear a coat most of the time.
Arn
Freely quoting Jordon Peterson, “In our search for the truth we must risk being offended”.
Freelance woodwind performer
Post Edited (2023-09-27 18:29)
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Author: lmliberson
Date: 2023-09-27 18:11
While not really all that interested in this particular topic, it caused me to wonder as to how many people here actually remember the real Arnold Stang?
I do but I can’t vouch for his skin or his coat…
Clarinet performer - but not for free, whether lanced or not.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2023-09-27 22:26
Attachment: Flavored cork grease.jpg (384k)
For those who put tenons into their mouth to make it more slippery...
You might as well as enjoy the flavor!
p.s. You have no idea of what I went through to get this picture posted!
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-09-27 22:26
Hi Arnoldstang,
Given how this topic has glid... um..glided...no!...glidededed to 47 replies , just proves what a great lubricant cork grease really is.
If it's gone on too long, then we must all be using too much of the stuff.
( I forbid this thread from ending until Dan Shusta manages to post whatever it is here keeps trying to ) Ha-ha!
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2023-09-27 23:31
Julian, You made me smile. It was worth the long slide.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2023-09-28 00:11
Attachment: Flavored cork grease 2.jpg (272k)
Well, believe it or not, I found 6 more scented cork greases and they are: 1) Mint; 2) Grape; 3) Apple; 4) Mango; 5) Premium scented; and 6) Melon.
Post Edited (2023-09-28 07:57)
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2023-09-28 08:55
Hello again, I did a little more investigating as to why would a cork grease company put various "scents" into their products.
At first, I looked upon it as kind of a novelty item...something that kids would enjoy. I looked at some of the Amazon reviews for d'object cork grease and sure enough, I found a few that fit into that category. Also noted in the reviews was that the scent smell was slight and not overpowering.
Then I read the manufacturer's reason for adding various scents and I must admit that it made a lot of sense to me. (No pun intended.) What was written in the description for adding scent smells was: "to reduce discomfort to the player".
I thought about that for a little bit and began to understand their reasoning. For example, I've known for a long time that lavender is known for helping a person to relax and fall asleep faster. I began to understand that various scents can affect players in one particular way and that was to reduce anxiety. Hence, the phrase "to reduce discomfort to the player".
I've read on this BB that auditioning can be nerve racking. I remember a thread about the use of beta blockers for the sole purpose of reducing anxiety.
So, now you know the reason why.
Although scent fragrance of cork greases is probably O.T., I can interpret "When to use cork grease" in two different ways. The first, obviously, concerns the amount. The second is a slight change of the O.P.'s topical phrase to "When to use fragrant cork grease". Here, the "When" (for me) refers to the anxiety provoking clarinet solo performances that a player might find themselves in.
Anyway. all of the above are just my opinions and observations. YMMV
p.s. I found 3 more scent smells and one of them was lavender.
Post Edited (2023-09-28 22:16)
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-09-28 10:07
Thats brilliant!...........So now cork grease not only reduces friction... but also anxiety.
Those people sticking the tenons in their mouths are no doubt just fending off a panic attack.
They should make lavender scented condoms to help with performance anxiety too.
It's a wonderful world !
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-10-02 20:56
Attachment: P5140001.JPG (683k)
Attachment: P5140002.JPG (649k)
Here's how I recommend people hold the joints during assembly and disassembly. Attached are photos to show exactly what I mean.
ONLY hold the joints in the hands that control them, top joint in your left hand and lower joint in your right hand. Don't swap hands when you do this - there's no reason to if you hold them correctly.
Hold the top joint in your LEFT HAND with your palm facing upwards and wrap your fingers around to hold the ring keys down as well as holding the throat A key open - this is vitally important if you play alto or bass clarinets and there's more than one linkage between the joints.
Hold the lower joint in your RIGHT HAND wit your palm facing downwards, placing your thumb over both the F/C and E/B pad cups to hold them CLOSED, wrapping your fingers around the back of the lower joint to grip it. That way, no keywork will get bent during assembly/disassembly.
Then you can fit the joints together with both a pushing and slight twisting back and forth motion and then align the linkage between the joints. While I strongly advice to use a slight twisting motion for the main joints, you can push the bell and barrel straight on if you find that easier provided you use sufficient cork grease.
As there's the linkage between the joints, it's not advisable to push the joints together without any slight twisting as you'll tear off the key corks or at worst, bend the keywork. As bells and barrels don't normally have keywork or linkages running across the joints (except in some models like Selmer Marchi systems and clarinets with a low E/F correction key on the bell), those joints can be pushed straight down. You'll still need to twist and pull when removing the mouthpiece, barrel and bell.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Clarineat
Date: 2023-10-14 08:00
I've never heard not to twist, only not to bend the rods and keys. I always twist and always try to grab and put pressure on the areas of wood, and the rings which are meant to be pushed down anyways. Hard to describe how I do it but I can assure you it's fine because I've never had my clarinet go out of alignment because of bending.
Sean Perrin
Host of the Clarineat Podcast
Listen FREE at www.clarineat.com
hello@clarineat.com
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