 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ~jerry
Date: 2001-07-25 01:01
Has anyone experienced the zero beating of two equal but seperate sounds with the clarinet? Of course you have, but I just had my first experience with it at last Saturday's lesson. My teacher and I were playing the same note at the same time for a bit of an extended time when it happened.
I am familiar with the sound through my experience with my amateur radio euipment tuning. It sounds the same on the clarinet but may have a different name. When both clarinets are playing exactly the same pitch, there is heard a warbling sound (best as I can describe it). The closer the two get to the same pitch the more dampened the warbling become until only one sound is heard -- one that seems to almost ring: it's quite unique. I was quite impressed because I was not aware that this phenomenon occured in music (actually it makes sense but I just never thought of it outside of my radio experience). My teacher was quite impressed that I noticed it -- he said very few students don't notice it or they just don't mention that they did.
There are probably better terms, from the world of music, that describe this occurence but I'm sure most of you know what I am talking about.
~ jerry
Still in Clarinet Boot Camp
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-07-25 01:12
~jerry wrote:
> When both clarinets are
> playing exactly the same pitch, there is heard a warbling sound
> (best as I can describe it).
You meant close to the same pitch (you can hear a beat note). It'll also be easily heard when matching octaves and fifths.
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2001-07-25 02:15
Jerry: i had the same thing happened; except I had quit playing and was hearing only one note. It was the other person.
Glad you are out of boot camp.
Bob
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2001-07-25 03:34
What's nice is when you get a chord that is SO accurate it almost sounds like advanced multiphonics.
BTW, I doubt such a chord is possible with multiphonics, but hey, I can dream.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2001-07-25 05:08
Sometimes one can hear a beat between the third harmonic of a note played on one clarinet and the 12th played above it by another clarinet.
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Author: Roger
Date: 2001-07-25 11:54
when two different instruments play lower notes sometimes another harmonic is created
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Author: Roger
Date: 2001-07-25 11:54
when two different instruments play two different lower notes together sometimes another harmonic is created
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Author: Jerry McD.
Date: 2001-07-25 14:02
What you are hearing is a matching of the overtones. As you well know the clarinet sound contains many overtones, but when playing the same fundamental note as another player many times the overtones don't match exactly. That is the "warble" that you hear. This overtone warble is what is used when tuning a piano, especially the temperament, F-to-F around middle C. These warbles, they are called "beats", must be a specific speed for the interval (in tuning a piano) to be in tune. 3rds, 4ths, 5ths all beat different speeds. Also, If you look at a piano you will see that all of the treble notes contain three strings. These strings must be tuned to each other so there are no beats. This is the convergence that you are talking about. You are exactly right when you say that it "sings". I would say that it SINGS!!!!! Two strings can be at the same pitch, but if their overtones don't match (i.e. no beats) they are not 'in tune'. It takes a very sensitive ear to hear these subtle, yet important aspects in your playing. Congratulations, keep it up!
Jerry McD.
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2001-07-25 21:50
So, when, for example, the violin section of the Philadelphia Orchestra plays in unison, and it sounds like one big violin, this means that not only are all the fundamentals of each note in tune, but all the overtones are the same, as well? And when folk or jazz musicians playing the same instrument play in unison, and it does not sound like one instrument, this means that they are in tune on their fundamental tones but not their overtones?
Am I correct?
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Author: Jerry McD.
Date: 2001-07-26 14:37
It's not that black and white. In the case of violins, the vibrato changes everything, as well as the sheer number makes it virtually impossible to consciously "hear" the overtones. As to your jazz question, when two differen instruments play together and it doen't sound like one instrument, it is because of individual sound (timber/tamber) of these different instruments. It is like two people singing. If one person is singing a G with the syllable "ah", and a second person is singing the exact same pitch but is singing the syllable "ee" it cannot possibly sound as one. What we are talking about here is an apples to oranges comparison, very different issues, and it really only applies to like instruments, few in number. i.e., a teacher playing with his student as in the original post.
Jerry McD.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-07-26 15:27
Piano technicians speak of the "enharmonicity" of a bass (wound) string, i.e. how in tune with the fundamental its overtones. This can be altered by factors such as the length of the section of the unwound string, and the diameter of the 'core' and of the winding(s).
Steve the characteristic sound of a string section is BECAUSE there are many notes, all out of tune with eachother but close to a given pitch, all playing at once. The pitch vibrato enhances this effect, which we interpret as a 'warm' or emotional sound.
Some local research established that the wind players in a good orchestra had a far mor precise consciousness of pitch accuracy than did the string players. I sujppose that is because the pitch for a string player doesn't really mnatter so much. There are hundreds of simultaneous beat frequencies at any time in a string section, and that gives the string sound, whereas if a flute player beats with a trumpet player it sounds ghastly, so they have to work harder for it not to happen.
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2001-07-26 15:42
When I first started playing again as an adult, I had severe intonation and tuning problems, until I just got better, and until my ear also got more accurate. I still have tuning problems when I am real close to to the note we are tuning to, can't decide whether I'm sharp or flat or ok, other more confident people may tell me, but not infrequently they are wrong.
I have quite a bit of "stylistic freedom" with the groups I play in. Per this discussion, I am now wondering whether vibrato will decrease or aggravate such tuning difficulties. Thank you.
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