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 Extra pad on lower joint? Why?
Author: johnwesley 
Date:   2022-06-14 08:33
Attachment:  extra pad.jpg (144k)

Leblanc has extra pad that looks like it might be alternate. Anyone of you know what it is?

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 Re: Extra pad on lower joint? Why?
Author: Tony F 
Date:   2022-06-14 10:05

This is used by several makers. My Couesnon has the same arrangement. It improves the tuning at the bottom end of the clarinet, but they can be a nuisance to adjust.

Tony F.

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 Re: Extra pad on lower joint? Why?
Author: Micke Isotalo 2017
Date:   2022-06-14 23:27

It's also supposed to improve the sound of low g and d5, making those notes double vented instead of single vented. Also many Reform Boehm clarinets has this feature, as mine.

As for the degree or nature of this sound improvement, I had a recent personal experience when I tried out a German bore/French fingered A-clarinet without this feature. On that clarinet I noticed a "sizzling" in the tone on low g, which I didn't notice on another specimen of the same model which was double vented. Still, also other factors could have been involved. Also only the A-clarinet had this sizzling, but not the B-flat it was paired with (also single vented). On the d5 I didn't notice any difference, at least not spontaneously.

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 Re: Extra pad on lower joint? Why?
Author: johnwesley 
Date:   2022-06-15 03:01

.....So. Both pads open at the same time for double venting? Do they both operate by a single key?

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 Re: Extra pad on lower joint? Why?
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2022-06-15 03:02

It fully vents the G/D (xxx|xxx) and both pad cup are mounted to the same key barrel.


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 Re: Extra pad on lower joint? Why?
Author: super20dan 
Date:   2022-06-15 05:02

my marlerne alto has this

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 Re: Extra pad on lower joint? Why?
Author: clarnibass 
Date:   2022-06-15 07:19

>> It improves the tuning at the bottom end of the clarinet, but they can be a nuisance to adjust. <<

Only down to G since it's closed for the bottom three notes, and only a tiny effect above G itself (and clarion D).

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 Re: Extra pad on lower joint? Why?
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2022-06-15 13:28
Attachment:  debe.png (18k)

G and D (xxx|xxx) are effectively forked notes having a tonehole closed immediately below the one where G/D issues directly from, so this doubled tonehole/pad cup arrangement is effectively like having the F#/C# key open when playing G/D (only without it closing the RH F/C key).

See attached diagram which shows the ventings of G/D, Ab/Eb and A/E on a regular clarinet.

Fully vented notes on clarinets are:

Throat Bb with the standard or trill key fingerings
Throat A
Throat G#/Ab
Open G
F# with the side key fingering (LH thumb and side F# key)
E/B (xoo|ooo)
Eb/Bb with the side key/cross key fingerings (xxo|side Eb/Bb and xx\o|ooo)
C#/G# (xxxC#/G#|ooo)
C/G (xxx|ooo)
B/F# with the 'sliver' key fingering (xxx|xo/o)
Bb/F (xxx|xoo)
Ab/Eb (xxx|xxxAb/Eb)
F#/C# (xxx|xxxF#/C# or xxx LH F#/C#|xxx)
F/C (xxx|xxx F/C or xxx LH F/C|xxx)
E/B (xxx|xxx E/B or XXX LH E/B|xxx) which issues directly from the bell, or the low E tonehole on instruments built to low Eb.

The forked notes with one or more toneholes closed immediately below the tonehole the note issues directly from are:

F# (LH thumb off xoo|ooo) as LH1 is closed below the thumb tube where F# issues from.
Long Eb*/Bb (xoo|xoo) has several toneholes closed some distance below the LH2 (Eb/Bb) tonehole. *The long fingering for lower register D#/Eb will be sharp
D/A (xxo|ooo) as the C#/G# tonehole is closed immediately below the LH3 (D/A) tonehole.
B/F# (xxx|oxo) as RH2 is closed immediately below the RH1 tonehole.
A/E (xxx|xxo) as the Ab/Eb tonehole is closed immediately below the RH3 (A/E) tonehole.
G/D (xxx|xxx) as already discussed as the F#/C# tonehole is closed immediately below the G/D tonehole (the one covered by the RH F/C key).

Do remember that notes can only issue from open toneholes and most given open key and tonehole given names don't always relate to the tonehole name in question.

Clarinets fitted with a LH forked Eb/Bb mechanism have a small vent tonehole between LH2 and LH3 to fully vent the forked fingering (xox|ooo).

Clarinets fitted with an Acton vent (B&H 1010 and several reform Boehms and German Boehms) have a small side key to fully vent the B/F# (and altissimo Eb) fingerings when played with the standard fingering (xxx|oxo).

As well as those extra mechanisms, there are some instruments fitted with:

An F# vent (LH thumb off xoo|ooo) eg. Buffet Prestige basset horns,

A D/A vent (xxo|ooo) eg. Buffet prestige basset horns, reform Boehms and German Boehms,

An A vent (xxx|xxo) Buffet Prestige basset horns again and some others

and as you have on your clarinet with the double pad cups on the RH F/C key, the G/D vent (xxx|xxx) as well as Buffet basset horns yet again, reform and German Boehms and several bass clarinets.

Leblanc Ab sopranino clarinets also have the G/D vent crammed onto them.


Post Edited (2022-06-15 16:26)

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 Re: Extra pad on lower joint? Why?
Author: donald 
Date:   2022-06-16 08:37

The extra G/D vent also allows the cylindrical section of the lower joint to extend a fraction further before the flare, and the flare (conical section) can be much more moderate. This has the effect of making the lower register tone a bit more concentrated- if you've ever played a German bore clarinet you'll know how this feels... on the French bore clarinet the effect is much more subtle but the same principal applies.
One way to see how this feels/sounds is to take off the F#/C# key and play (top line) F-E-D-C. With the key missing the G/D will be super sharp. But the "balance of the sound" will be easily apparent- D will no longer be stuffy and dull

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 Re: Extra pad on lower joint? Why?
Author: Mojo 
Date:   2022-06-16 23:58

My Leblanc Symphonie II does not have the extra pad.

Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC

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 Re: Extra pad on lower joint? Why?
Author: NOLA Ken 
Date:   2022-06-18 22:13

Neither do my Sympthonie 3, Classic II, Pete Fountain, or LL "A". My Symphonie 3 Full Boehm does for reasons that are obvious, and I must say that both the tone and tuning in the bottom end are superior to that of even the Symphonie 3. Love my full Boehm.

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