 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-06-19 01:00
The one surprise in the podcast for me was that both Seans and (apparently) Michelle Anderson have better luck with Legere reeds secured down with greater force with the ligature. I know from own experience that I initially tended toward cranking down the ligature just out of fear (and actual real life experience) that the slipperier plastic reed would slide way out of adjustment either placing the mouthpiece on the instrument or trying to get the mouthpiece off. More recently I have happily found that much like cane, if you allow the ligature to have the LEAST amount of pressure possible, the reed will resonate with much more authority. Now, granted I've had the most luck doing this with the BG Flex (and also to a fair degree with the Rovner Versa/Daniels...flaps OVER the insert).
That said, plastic ligatures allow tightening with incredible resonance from the Legeres. The obvious choice here is the Luyben, but there are other plastic ligatures that were made, and can still be found in boxes under the counter of your local music store.
I had already asked someone at Legere about the possibility of them creating their own ligature without much of a response, but it was not Sean King. I may try his email.
[oops.....turns out it was Sean, I guess they're just not into ligatures]
Thanks for the podcast Sean!
....................Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2021-06-19 01:06)
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-06-19 04:11
Paul, I think it's clear that you reached out to Legere about ligatures without them showing, at the time, much interest.
But in case I misread, if you're looking for a business partner with a limited mechanical skill set, that could devise a ligature with crappy response, please let me know. I'm your guy (who isn't named Legere.) 
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-06-19 04:51
Yes, I realize the comment was not entirely serious. But to clarify, I think that Legere would be quite capable of producing a ligature of the same material as their reeds. Given the dramatically greater resonance one can get with a plastic ligature, I would think a Legere reed/ligature combo would seal their prominence in the market.
Of course, what do I know?
......................Paul Aviles
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-06-19 20:38
Paul:
In completely serious response (to your just prior completely serious response) I think Luyben ligatures come close to effecting the result you desire. 
YMMV
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-06-20 23:39
Again, I get the strong indication that you are not actually trying the Luyben ligature with the Legere reeds.
I don't mind criticism in the least but I would prefer it if the criticism actually came from a place of some experience.
Or maybe I'm just being thrown by the brevity and emojis.
If you have tried Luyben (or Vinson or Gigliotti) with the Legeres and have some specific reasons why you are less than impressed I would LOVE to hear the specific reasons for that dissatisfaction. Anything less would be a disservice to other readers who may benefit from the trial.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-06-21 06:25
Paul Aviles wrote:
> Again, I get the strong indication that you are not actually
> trying the Luyben ligature with the Legere reeds.
>
>
I own Legere Reeds and a Luyben ligature. I think the Luyben works best with Legeres but I am still primarily a cane reed player and use the Vandoren M/O ligature with cane, interesting enough, because its double threading makes quick change of the reed--more than for sound of resistance reasons.
>
> I don't mind criticism in the least but I would prefer it if
> the criticism actually came from a place of some experience.
>
>
>
Sorry if I came across as teasing or critical of you. That was not my intention. I was just trying to make a funny on the double entendre of the word "response" here as it related to both a reed's response, and Legere's market interest in selling a ligature. Your initial message was very clear despite the unintended double meaning and was just trying to elicit a laugh not at your expense. I hoped that in my own deliberate self deprecation regarding my mechanical skills in said joke that you saw my desire to shoot flames at nobody before myself.
> Or maybe I'm just being thrown by the brevity and emojis.
>
>
>
> If you have tried Luyben (or Vinson or Gigliotti) with the
> Legeres and have some specific reasons why you are less than
> impressed I would LOVE to hear the specific reasons for that
> dissatisfaction. Anything less would be a disservice to other
> readers who may benefit from the trial.
>
>
I can't help you here. I found the Luyben's most resonant on Legere's--which I think a good thing. With cane I was worried that the Luyben made me sound too bright.
I wish you success Paul in finding ligatures better suited to your Legere reed use.
>
>
> ...................Paul Aviles
>
Post Edited (2021-06-21 06:26)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-06-21 07:41
I guess I was misinterpreting the message, sorry.
Printed media can take a lot of the message away and then when you add the inteweb thing it just becomes a hot mess.
I too really like the M/Os with cane. Interestingly I passed on the first introduction I might have had with Legere European Signatures because I was using M/Os at the time and those Legeres don't fit in the M/Os pre-sculpted cradle.
Now, I stick with the Legeres for all the other positives like:
o Constancy (I know exactly how I will sound tomorrow)
o Immune to changes in humidity
o Smooth surface (cane users don't know how bumpy life is until.....it's not)
o Dramatically lower cost over time (a year's worth of performance from ONE SMALL BATCH)
I will concede that if you are comparing side by side, a good, well broken in cane reed will sound better then a Legere but then there is the 5th reason to never use cane again. You don't have to break them in.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-06-21 14:23
We're good Paul.
It's interesting as to your reasons for staying with Legeres--recognizing them better for you than cane, but not a panacea.
My opposite approach that still sides with cane recognizes the same lack of panacea over on the "wood side" of things, but I'm able to get enough consistency with the ATG method of reed adjustment, and other tips I've picked up along the way, as well as humidity controlled storage, to still remain with cane.
I attribute part of this to my use of a Vandoren M15 mouthpiece, which I think is very reed friendly, and part to intonation problems I've had with Legere's, including failed experimentation with their Soprano Sax versions on Bb clarinet with an Eb (albeit garden variety) clarinet ligature.
But it's getting close. And I'm of the belief that the next incarnation of Legere's, that take the European cut just a tad but further may push me over.
I also think that in time, synthetics will just become the way to go given that their consistency already challenges cane, such that if they get any closer, let alone some day exceed cane in response, that cane will go the way of wooden battleships over steel ones.
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Author: Clarineat
Date: 2021-06-23 07:37
For Legeres I really like the following ligatures:
Rovner Versa
Pereira 3D
I regret giving my Pereira ligature to a student, it was wonderful.
Thanks for listening everyone!
Sean Perrin
Host of the Clarineat Podcast
Listen FREE at www.clarineat.com
hello@clarineat.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-06-23 13:11
Sean,
You guys spoke about the new packaging of the Legere reed and briefly said that reed guards that hold the tips of the reeds flat are NOT good. Why is that?
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-06-25 22:45
Question answered around 41:47 of Mr. Perrin's podcast #159 (actually after the official podcast was over).
The answer is: "Putting pressure on the tip of a Legere reed may cause thin splits or slight warping at the end."
I have had some slight upward corner bending but I cannot really see how the sort of confinement you get from a plastic Rico reed guard would contribute to that. More answers forthcoming from Legere?
I have never had any splitting at the tip. That seems like that would require an awful lot of stress. However I will freely admit to using some of those NASA cable ligatures or more standard metal configurations with enough torque to cause some short, longitudinal cracks at the very butt of a few of my Legeres. Not proud moments.......you actually hear a little snap when that happens.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-06-26 05:44
Clarineat wrote:
> For Legeres I really like the following ligatures:
>
> Rovner Versa
> Pereira 3D
>
> I regret giving my Pereira ligature to a student, it was
> wonderful.
>
> Thanks for listening everyone!
>
Hi Sean--maybe you know this.....
You must appreciate, when ordering things online, that sometimes the packaging shown in the web browser isn't identical to that you receive.
These promotion product holders are often redone over time by the marketing people, etc. I suspect you catch what I'm saying.
This said, is there any identifying labeling/sku number you know of on the package that indicates that a Legere reed within has this new reed holder?
Thanks.
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Author: kilo
Date: 2021-06-26 16:25
Quote:
Putting pressure on the tip of a Legere reed may cause thin splits or slight warping at the end.
Légère has been saying that from the very beginning. And I've been storing Légère reeds in Rico and La Voz reed holders which lightly press on the tip of the reed from the beginning as well. I've never had a problem. I tried using one of the Selmer folding cases for a while, until I opened it upside-down once and one of my tenor reeds fell on the floor – and split.
I believe they're less prone to splitting now. There was a time when the company even assured users that "thin hairline cracks may appear but won't affect response". I haven't seen those vertical lines in a long time and I think a new plastic formulation might have increased their durability.
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Author: Clarineat
Date: 2021-06-29 23:23
I can't speak for legere, but in personal experience the reeds do get a bit bent in other types of cases. Maybe it's more from not being careful enouh during the insertion and removal of the reeds from the case over time?
As long as the pressure is not too close to the tip, and you're very careful, perhaps other solutions will be ok? After all, the reed itself must be able to withstand pressure to some extent because of the way it is attached to the mouthpiece! Thanks for your thoughts paul!
Sean Perrin
Host of the Clarineat Podcast
Listen FREE at www.clarineat.com
hello@clarineat.com
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Author: Clarineat
Date: 2021-06-29 23:26
Kilo I tried to use that fancy quote feature but can't figure it out... this answer is for you!
You're right, some retailers and suppliers still have the old cases, and probably still will for a while since it's such a recent change. There's no way that I know of to determine which is which except it would be advisable maybe to make sure before ordering.
Sean Perrin
Host of the Clarineat Podcast
Listen FREE at www.clarineat.com
hello@clarineat.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-06-30 00:40
Thank you for the response Sean!
In my eagerness to try the "new" Legere European cut I ordered directly from Legere. This way is the guarantee for now. The only difference for the reed I experienced is the thin coating that seems painted on which has the branding and the reed strength imprinted on it. It is still possible to "chip" this layer off if one handles the reed roughly, but it is an improvement over the little round sticker. I don't find the new reed holder practical if you want to carry more than two Legere with you in your clarinet case, so I will continue to use the "unrecommended."
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Clarineat
Date: 2021-06-30 01:52
Yes, funny you should say that. I like to have at least 8 synthetic reeds on the go, in various "spread" of strengths in case I want something a bit harder or softer for whatever reason. This also allows rotation, or to give the reeds a break if they get "tired" (which they do after about an hour).
This causes me to usually use my Vientos Bambu 8 reed case which puts minimal pressure on the reed so I think it's ok. On the podcast episode I asked them if they would consider making a 5 (or more) reed holder to solve this very issue!
We'll have to see.
Sean Perrin
Host of the Clarineat Podcast
Listen FREE at www.clarineat.com
hello@clarineat.com
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Author: BethGraham
Date: 2021-06-30 04:50
For what it's worth, I've found the new reed holders they include tricky to use.
I sure wish there were an option not to get them automatically now with the reeds....
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Author: Clarineat
Date: 2021-07-02 09:36
Hi Beth, I go over this on the podcast but you should insert the reed from the side, and they actually allow less packaging to be used during shipping, and they are recyclable so it's a win to me! If you don't need it, just recycle it I would say.
Sean Perrin
Host of the Clarineat Podcast
Listen FREE at www.clarineat.com
hello@clarineat.com
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2021-07-07 13:39
Attachment: New Legere reed holder.jpg (346k)
As Beth, I also found it puzzling how to use the new reed holders. The following video shows how it's supposed to be done, though the mechanism seems very resistant the first couple of times you do it on a new reed holder (initially I feared breaking the reed, and instead inserted the reed from the top - with extreme difficulty, not touching and risking damage to the tip of the reed).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpgqFUqjr0c&ab_channel=L%C3%A9g%C3%A8reReeds
The grip when inserting the reed the intended way, shown on the attached image, may put a bit less stress on it.
If this kind of extra care is really needed not to damage the reed, then I think this new reed holder is a bit counterproductive.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-07-07 16:24
I find it a little ironic that that there is some difficulty with the new reed sarcophagus. I received a little clarification from Legere regarding the idea that one should not use a reed guard that touches the tip of the reed. The clarification is that Legere reeds are thinner than cane and can be damaged more easily. The thinness (up and down) can cause reed guards meant for cane to function inappropriately with Legere. Also many reed guards have too much play side-to-side and can enable the bumping of the tip of the reed if one is a bit careless putting the reed in or taking it out.
For me, the idea is that we just need to be cautious and meticulous about the storage of Legere reeds. It strikes me that one could just as easily bend the tip of the reed being careless with the sarcophagus.
Just be careful
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Globus
Date: 2021-07-08 02:26
A Vandoren plastic 8-reed case (the official name, I believe, is the Vandoren VRC810 Reed Case) works perfectly for Legere reeds. Most instrument retailers sell them, as does Amazon. Holds the reeds securely and causes no damage.
Paul Globus
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