 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-04-18 02:16
Say I'm playing sharp. I might be inclined to pull my barrel away from my upper (left hand) joint a bit--perhaps lengthening the clarinet at the top and bottom joints as well.
At least at the barrel, in so doing, by the same amount I've separated the bottom of the barrel from the upper joint, I've created a length of the air column, inside the clarinet bore, that is slightly wider in diameter...in fact wider by the difference between the diameter of the inner wall of the bottom of the barrel, and the diameter of the inner wall of the upper joint.
Some subscribe to the ideal that it's best not to have this abrupt change in the air column size, even for its short length, and take up the space with tuning rings whose inner diameter better replicates the diameter in the middle section of the barrel's length: which is similar to that of the bore of the top joint and mouthpiece.
Now, this isn't to say that clarinets have the same bore size for their length, witness the conical bore, just not abrupt bore size changes.
But what I don't get is that it would seem this same gap created by separating the bottom of the barrel from the upper joint, where the air column experiences sections of abrupt changes in diameter, is just as much created in adjustable barrels extended beyond their shortest length, given the telescoping nature of the two pieces of such barrels.
Maybe all of this is wrong. But if not, it would seem that tuning ring purists would thumb their nose at adjustable barrels and rather stock several different size fixed length barrels, while those playing adjustable barrels would laugh at the so called benefit of tuning rings.
Is this correct? How is this seeming discrepancy between the those that say there is a need for players to use tuning rings in such lengthening of the air column by some players, resolved in adjustable barrel creation that seems to have such abrupt changes in the air column's size when lengthened, otherwise unresolved with tuning rings?
I can try to draw pictures if this narrative is confusing.
Thanks.
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Author: OneWatt
Date: 2021-04-18 04:45
@SecondTry:
Do you achieve a well-tuned clarinet throughout your playing range? I.e., is the instrument "in tune with itself?"
If so, however you accomplish this, the purists should have no complaint. If they do, I'd try not to listen ;-)
If you aren't achieving this, you should consider what you might do to improve upon the situation.
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Israel = Ancient Hebrew for "Wrestles with God"
Klarinet = Ancient Greek for "Struggles with Reeds"
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Author: donald
Date: 2021-04-18 04:47
I've never closely examined any of the adjustable barrels that are now popular, but I THOUGHT the construction was such that as they changed length the bore remained without a "step". Of course, I've no idea how this can be done and have always been a bit curious to take a close look- so can't verify this, but I can't see why the top players would BOTHER with a Zoom barrel etc if this wasn't the case?
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Author: OneWatt
Date: 2021-04-18 04:57
donald wrote:
> I've never closely examined any of the adjustable barrels that
> are now popular, but I THOUGHT the construction was such that
> as they changed length the bore remained without a "step". Of
> course, I've no idea how this can be done and have always been
> a bit curious to take a close look- so can't verify this, but I
> can't see why the top players would BOTHER with a Zoom barrel
> etc if this wasn't the case?
Having just checked, I can confirm that the RS Berkeley adjustable barrel - when expanded from being completely closed - does introduce a section of inner bore that is not equal in diameter to the other sections.
I haven't detected meaningful mismatches in tuning across registers (or between upper & lower joint notes) when using it to tune the instrument WITHIN REASON. Extreme increases/decreases in length would be another matter.
An adjustable barrel won't turn a Bb clarinet into an A or a C instrument ;-)
- - - - - - - - - -
Israel = Ancient Hebrew for "Wrestles with God"
Klarinet = Ancient Greek for "Struggles with Reeds"
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-04-18 06:06
I raise these questions to better understand the use/value of tuning rings if adjustable barrels can't address this gap.
My own personal experience as it regards playing in relative tune with others is not at issue.
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2021-04-18 09:01
The reason, why the adjustable barrels aren't very popular among professionals is the sound quality. The design and material of the barrel may have a huge effect in the sound colour as well as how well the instrument is in tune within itself.
Pulling the barrel open flattens the pitch, but the gap causes the short tube notes especially around e'-bb' flatten slightly more than other notes in the instrument. Therefore i use tuning rings, when i need to open the barrel more than 1,5 mm.
Another issue is the A-clarinet. You should have a shortish barrel in it, because often you need to change to it in the middle of the music. Then the instrument is colder than your Bb-clarinet and thus tends to be flat. And when you get a chance to play the A-clarinet right from the start, use a tuning ring.
By the way, many mouthpieces are made so, that the joint is a bit too short. Something like 0,5 mm. Otherwise the instrument could look ugly, because there might be a gap between the barrel and mp outside the instrument! So it is highly propable, that you have a gap inside the tube all the time!!
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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Author: donald
Date: 2021-04-18 09:39
Well yes, but
1) the Berkley barrel isn't really considered by anyone as suitable for professional playing
2) numerous high profile professional players use Zoom and Behn adjustable barrels...
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-04-18 19:04
Have you a Berkley barrel?
I have. I wouldn't say it is "unsuitable" for professional use.
Also despite the good press from "some" on the Behn barrel (and I assume that it is a wonderful product), it is quite new, so not a lot of folks have had a chance to try/use it anywhere near the extent of the Zoom which you CAN see being used by many top artists (but that is a matter of it being on the market successfully for such a long time).
My personal take on the adjustable idea is that it is great to be able to make a global and accurate pitch adjustment on the fly. However there are already band stories of some folks fiddling with their barrels constantly through rehearsals and performances. Please, don't be that guy.
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2021-04-18 19:11
I have a P&S Zoom barrel, used for some time but not currently. For me it doesn't either improve or harm the tone (most after market barrels I've tried does the latter, so not a bad result in itself), and nor does it even out the scale (short tube notes in relation to long tube notes, compared to just pulling out a regular barrel). Since the gap between a pulled out regular barrel and the top joint is missing (there is still a small step inside the bore of the Zoom-barrel, present all the time whether it's turned out or not), the Zoom-barrel just needs to be turned out more to compensate for the missing volume of that gap.
I've not used tuning rings, but to achieve the same lower pitch level as when just pulling out the barrel, I assume you would need a longer pullout with tuning rings than without - for the same reason as above.
The only reason for me to use tuning rings would be practical. That is, in case I "always" need a certain pullout, then with a tuning ring the assembly of my clarinet would be a little bit quicker and more convenient.
Post Edited (2021-04-18 22:32)
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-04-18 19:14
Hey Jarmo:
To Donald's point, and although one player does not even resemble universal acceptance, doesn't Anthony McGill play on a P&S adjustable barrel?
Perhaps whatever sound quality reduction, if any, professional players who use these barrels experience, is offset by their ability to quickly dial in the best overall pitch for their instrument relative to others, over swapping numerous fixed length barrels.
I would think that pros aren't against them as professional models exist in not only the above manufacturer's product offerings but those of Chadash and Behn (recently introduced).
I believe I heard/read, likely here, although I can't find the post, the Kal Opperman could hear the absence of a tuning ring when his students lengthened their air column.
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2021-04-18 22:55
Attachment: Zoom barrel.jpg (55k)
Just a correction to my above post: There is no step in the bore of the P&S Zoom barrel when there is no turn out, but when there is a turnout the diameter difference at the step is 0.95mm (so about 1/2 mm on each side). See also the attached picture, where the barrel is turned out about 5 mm.
I may also add that when comparing the sound between my original barrels and the Zoom barrel, I did it by a tone by tone comparison of recorded chromatic scales, from low e to d#6. Both with a pullout and without, and thus also comparing the effect of the bigger gap created by the pullout of a regular barrel between the barrel and upper joint, and the much smaller step created inside the Zoom barrel.
Post Edited (2021-04-18 22:57)
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Author: OneWatt
Date: 2021-04-19 00:34
Paul Aviles wrote:
> Have you a Berkley barrel?
>
>
> I have. I wouldn't say it is "unsuitable" for professional
> use.
>
For the record: I wouldn't say my Berkeley barrel is "unsuitable" for professional use. However, its owner is clearly unsuitable.
- - - - - - - - - -
Israel = Ancient Hebrew for "Wrestles with God"
Klarinet = Ancient Greek for "Struggles with Reeds"
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-04-19 04:16
Micke: you may be on to an answer to my issue.
It seems like the change in bore diameter from extending your adjustable barrel to a setting that is longer that its shortest one is much smaller (about a millimeter in total) than the bore size change of pulling out the bottom of a barrel from the upper joint: whose bore size change is the diameter of the inside of the barrel end, minus the diameter of the inside of the upper joint's upper tenon--the latter much larger and likely the justification for tuning rings.
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2021-04-19 23:08
SecondTry: Just be aware that I couldn't verify any advantages, either in tuning or in tone, by the much smaller bore gap by a turned out Zoom barrel compared to that created by a pullout of a regular barrel. Based on these findings, I also doubt that tuning rings would provide such benefits.
Other players may of course get other results.
Post Edited (2021-04-19 23:09)
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Author: Jeroen
Date: 2021-04-20 00:00
Some clarinets I know use the P&S Zoom barrel because it improves the sound.
It is true that there is a little bore difference in the longest position. However, this is minimal and a lot better than when pulling a regular barrel.
Disadvantage of tuning rings is that you loose flexibility. Sometimes you need to pull in or out quickly.
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The Clarinet Pages
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