 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-03-19 07:42
The mouthpiece that I have ordered is customized, therefore I can only speak to the characteristics of this particular mouthpiece. What I requested was mouthpiece with the "S-curve" baffle (convex up toward the tip with a slight concavity deeper into the tone chamber; particularly thin rails (side and tip); and a very short lay of only 14mm coupled with a 1.00mm tip opening.
This mouthpiece has the most exacting symmetry of any mouthpiece I've ever owned. This is a combination of Brad Behn's technical skill as well as his artistry. It is worth noting that to get a shorter lay than what was originally produced in the machining process, you have to remove material from the table. And despite what I thought that would mean for the thickness of the side rails and the width of the table, both are particularly thin. This aides the Legere reeds I use play with more upper partials and allows them to respond quicker (even more cane like).
The results are even more striking than what I could have asked for. The added bonus is that this mouthpiece is truly the first Boehm mouthpiece I've played that gives me the ability to play on the softest reeds possible while maintaining a control, a robust sound and the full dynamic palette. I did just step up a quarter strength to #3 1/4, but that is only a minor concession to gain full control of my lower chalumeau.
The bottom line for me is that prior to the Sono I could NEVER have imagined investing in a mouthpiece of the Behn Epic's price range. However, it now seems like the next logical step.
.............thanks Brad!
..........................Paul Aviles
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2021-03-23 23:28
Thank you Paul for sharing.
Since I consider myself as at least a partial "Behn-convert", regarding his "more sound, less effort"-philosophy, I've been curious also about his mouthpieces. Though I play on Reform Boehm clarinets, I ordered his entry-level Overture (the only one of his current models available through an European distributor), just to get a sense about how his playing concept translates into his products.
Though the Overture didn't suit me (it sounded "thin" for me), I would still love to try out also his high end models. I'm looking forward to your future review of an Epic mouthpiece.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2021-03-24 00:02
So let me get this straight:
Paul Aviles bought a new mouthpiece and is super excited about it!?
“The bottom line for me is that prior to the Sono I could NEVER have imagined investing in a mouthpiece of the Behn Epic's price range. However, it now seems like the next logical step.”
I agree.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-03-24 00:39
So......yes, every year or so I re-invent myself in some way and yes, "new mouthpieces" are not new to me.
I sorta tempered my enthusiasm because of the rather customized version. Also I use a fairly odd set of dimensions and my approach may be equally unique.
But I never before came as close to "effortless" as Micke describes it using a Boehm mouthpiece. Five years ago the representative of Viotto mouthpieces (Bas DeJong) sent me a N1+ with a bunch of 2 1/2 strength Vandoren Traditional White Masters. The Viotto tenon was reduced for use with Boehm clarinets. As it turns out, the tuning is rather close and one can use a German mouthpiece on a Boehm (with some unique accommodations mostly in the altissimo). The results were quite eye opening in that you just put the mouthpiece in your mouth and blow (compared with the OVERLY obsessive attention to embouchure that we shower on clarinet playing here in the US).
Until now, I have not been able to come as close on Boehm, though I know Brad Behn himself uses a very light technique (as I am to understand).
Though it may not entirely be all due to my latest mouthpiece, I am quite grateful to have a means to and end available to me. I would certainly trust any future custom work from Brad Behn.
.....................Paul Aviles
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Author: brycon
Date: 2021-03-24 01:53
Quote:
But I never before came as close to "effortless" as Micke describes it using a Boehm mouthpiece.
Why is complete effortlessness a goal?
Seems to me as though it would be better to aim for the correct amount of effort, in the correct places, and for the correct amount of time.
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Author: McDonalds Eater
Date: 2021-03-24 06:02
For me playing a more "effortless" setup allows me to focus more on the music instead of spending hours trying just to sound good.
Quite eye-opening for me too was playing on Behn mouthpieces. During my earlier years all I played were open mouthpieces: BD5, B40, B40 Lyre, etc. I fell into the "well X player plays it, and plays in X symphony, so it must be good" trap. I remember when playing those setups I would spend hours with my teacher just trying to get a descent sound. And don't even get me started on trying to play those setups in something like the beginning of Copland (for me at least).
Then when I came across a Behn mouthpiece, it all changed for me.
I remember revisiting the Copland and being mind-blown as to how easy it was to play. I could actually focus on phrasing and playing music instead trying to make every interval sound good. I was able to skip unnecessary breaths. When I would get to the cadenza I wouldn't feel like I just ran a marathon. All while keeping the same (if not more) amount of sound.
I no longer have to spend hours on fundamentals that could otherwise be fixed by simply trying a different setup. And the time that I save can instead be used on other lacking areas. I no longer have to think too much about my playing mechanics; I just "simply play."
I can't imagine now what it would be like to play on a Viotto N1 like Paul mentioned. Where can I get one and how much are they?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-03-24 07:07
Even Bas says that there is some support of the embouchure. I mean that in comparison to what is predominantly a rather physical approach around here, one can play better AND easier at the same time (in college I would never have believed it possible).
In addition to the good description of the "effortless" benefits, I find intonation being much more consistent across the three registers.......an odd but welcome bonus.
Lastly, with this newer approach I find myself slipping in and out of double lip. Not double lip in terms of covering the upper teeth with my upper lip but rather more of a "pursed lips" sort of thing. It allows for smoother connection amongst notes.
Viotto mouthpieces:
http://basdejong.com/mouthpieces.php/en
................Paul Aviles
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Author: vintschevski
Date: 2021-03-24 09:49
Paul, perhaps I have missed something along the way (I feel that I have), but when you were so delighted with the Viotto mouthpiece five or so years, why did you not pursue that then - or did you? There are Viotto "French model" mouthpieces - did you try all of those? Do they not make playing just as effortless? I apologise if these seem silly questions, but there is so much about mouthpieces that I don't understand.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-03-24 19:20
You and me both!
I have been working to understand what basic architecture is better for me than others so I can be more certain of success when I try the next (or break the current one). So far, I have been able to get a good idea about facing length and tip opening that work for me.
The Viotto was NOT part of the overall experiment, but rather an intervention courtesy of Bas DeJong after I whined a lot on this Board about the mismatch between German mouthpieces and French clarinets. The great thing about that was that I finally learned HOW to play a German mouthpiece (a little late for me, since the 12 year period of playing Wurlitzer 100Cs ended about 10 years prior). It also proved to me that there is no huge mismatch in acoustic but rather a different set of "accommodations." In the end it made more sense to me to find a solution within the Boehm design........for Boehm.
The Viotto German mouthpiece can be made upon request to fit the standard Boehm barrel socket. This really only requires a reduction of about 1.00mm from the diameter as well as the length.
Another intermediate step I took was to modify the socket of one of my barrels to accommodate non-modified German mouthpieces so that I could use the Wurlitzer M3+ mouthpieces that I still had from earlier.
I believe the main difference in the lay between German and Boehm facing is that there is a long portion that barely separates the reed and mouthpiece before it makes the final curve toward the tip. So not so different on the grand scale except for that "spring board" effect which seems to make a BIG difference in the response with softer reeds.
Hard to know if that sort of approach would work on a straight up Boehm mouthpiece.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2021-03-24 19:21
Paul, when you wrote "The results were quite eye opening in that you just put the mouthpiece in your mouth and blow"...do you remember all of the emails that you sent me 2 years ago describing the "peculiarities" (or possibly "difficulties") of playing the Viotto N1+?
Please believe me, I'm not trying to pick on you or find fault with you. However, in all honesty, the "just put the mouthpiece in your mouth and blow", IMHO, I find to be not entirely true and even a bit misleading. It was because of your emails that I decided not to order the Viotto N1+.
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Author: brycon
Date: 2021-03-24 20:40
Quote:
I no longer have to spend hours on fundamentals that could otherwise be fixed by simply trying a different setup. And the time that I save can instead be used on other lacking areas. I no longer have to think too much about my playing mechanics; I just "simply play."
Glad you found a setup that lets you move beyond fussing with those things!
Quote:
For me playing a more "effortless" setup allows me to focus more on the music instead of spending hours trying just to sound good.
For me, though, "effort" is a part of the music. The point I was trying to make is that the selling point "allows me to play without any effort" is kind of silly: it isn't an either/or, effort/no effort. But rather as players, we need the right sort of effort at the right spots in the music.
Cellists, for instance, talk about bow pressure, that is, providing additional effort from the index finger to get a particular sound. Pianists do something similar with arm and hand weight. For an accent in a Romantic piece, my teacher once had me place my hands on the keyboard and then feel the weight of the arm pulling downward, as though my fingers were holding onto the edge of a ledge.
So like cellists and pianists, I'm looking for a way of playing that allows me to exert more effort when the expression calls for it (an appoggiatura, for example) while avoiding the sort of effort that hinders my playing (such as unnecessary straining in the hands and fingers). And again here, it isn't an either/or: focus on music/focus on effort. Rather, like a cellist, you design some exercises to exert more effort, perhaps with your blowing mechanism, in a controlled way; practice the exercises; and then in the Copland concerto, apply more effort with your core and back muscles without much thought because you've practiced it.
But for me, the sound of tension-release, appoggiatura tone-chord tone, etc. is the result of more effort-less effort. And aside from the heard mentality thing, I think the popularity of some of the mouthpieces you mentioned (BD5 and B40 lyre) is partially the result of people feeling as though they can give more effort.
But of course, different strokes for different folks! And again, glad you're happy with your setup!
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-03-24 22:37
brycon wrote:
> But for me, the sound of tension-release, appoggiatura
> tone-chord tone, etc. is the result of more effort-less effort.
> And aside from the heard mentality thing, I think the
> popularity of some of the mouthpieces you mentioned (BD5 and
> B40 lyre) is partially the result of people feeling as though
> they can give more effort.
I completely agree with you. But I find that "effort" conjures up a negative meaning, as something undesirable, that can cloud the discussion. I sometimes talk to a student about using "a little more pressure around the mouthpiece" when I think it's needed. But my preferred term in general is "engagement" - just being involved to the extent necessary to control the result. In terms of the embouchure, playing completely effortlessly implies that you aren't exerting any control over the reed's vibration. By extension the reed is, illogically, playing by itself, which clearly isn't what anyone means. To exert any control, some muscle or other must be positively *engaged.* The continuum between Paul's N1+ or SONO and the B40-45 group of Vandorens, or even some close-tipped mouthpieces that tend toward wildness, if not more actively controlled, because of their baffle or chamber design, is one of increasingly firm engagement of the embouchure and blowing muscles.
At some point, for me, this increasing engagement - firmness - indeed becomes *effort,* which I, too, want to avoid.
Karl
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Author: brycon
Date: 2021-03-25 01:17
Quote:
At some point, for me, this increasing engagement - firmness - indeed becomes *effort,* which I, too, want to avoid.
Agreed! Just pushing back on the "with x, y, or z mouthpiece, I don't have to work at all!" stuff I see posted here all the time.
Though I'm sure these mouthpieces sound fantastic and, most likely, Paul and others are getting positive results, just because less effort might improve someone's playing, it doesn't follow that no effort is the ultimate goal. And sure, it could be detrimental for a particular student to hear "use more effort," but it could be equally detrimental to hear "don't use any effort."
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-03-25 06:04
Dan,
I don't take offense whatsoever and welcome some quotes from that letter if you have it. Though we all should be learning and changing, I don't recall there being anything contradictory in what I said about the Viotto experience of five years ago. I did ultimately find the Wurlitzer M3+ with #3 German Legere to work best for me..........and that led me to using the German cut Legeres on Boehm mouthpieces (it was a pretty involved transition to what I do now).
As for the "effort" thing.
I don't understand how more effort (or lack of effort) can add (or subtract) to the quality of the sound or the dynamic. You either execute a certain timbre and dynamic or you don't. Whether you expend more energy is really just that - more energy. Would that not be a negative if you could accomplish the same task without it?
That's all I'm saying.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: Robert N.
Date: 2021-03-25 06:58
Hi Paul,
I am curious as to how the Behn mouthpiece compares to the German style ones you have played, the Viotto and the Wurlitzer.
I am thinking in terms of:
1. actual physical shape of the mouthpiece (you mentioned the s-curved baffle, rails, lay, etc)
2. the feel for you, the player
3. the sound.
But anything that comes to mind would be interesting.
Thanks!
Robert
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-03-25 17:03
Paul Aviles wrote:
> I don't understand how more effort (or lack of effort) can add
> (or subtract) to the quality of the sound or the dynamic. You
> either execute a certain timbre and dynamic or you don't.
Well, how do you do that? What causes the execution of the timbre and dynamic? Is it something the player is doing? Does the timbre form itself?
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-03-25 17:40
Karl,
Just sayin' "added stress" is "additional." Picking up the clarinet can be stressful enough, we don't have to create more than what is necessary
I think I may be just saying the same things over and over on this one.
Robert,
The simple answer is that they are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. I may have added some confusion by conflating the two, but my point is only general in terms of the "effort" involved. I now have a way to approach my Boehm playing in a lighter, easier way. However, the sound and dynamics that I get are NOT compromised at all.
I did slap a German Legere on my M3+ a few weeks ago (I pretty much knew what going to happen) and found that I could not get a satisfactory sound at all. It would take me weeks, perhaps months to get into a groove with that again. The specifics of where everything sits is different. But five years ago it was a necessary step for me to get away from being overly physical with my approach to embouchure.
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2021-03-25 23:55
I've been on a Sono for the better part of a year now. I haven't had the chance to put it through the most crucial test of playing it with other people, but I have been much happier with my own playing on this mouthpiece than I have been on the (honestly too many) others I have tried recently.
I reached out to Brad after being very impressed by the budget Prescott mouthpiece line he offers and we got to talking about the Sono. I liked what he had to say about clarity and color of sound and was enjoying the very balanced resistance of the Prescott, so I ordered a Sono.
Mine is a "close" facing and I didn't give Brad any technical instructions. Based on the correspondence that we had and his own expertise, he made me a wonderful mouthpiece.
Overall it's definitely more resistant than other mouthpieces I have, but not in a bad way. I was expecting this based on the Prescott, so it was not a surprise to me that I needed a #3 V12/#3.5 Aria reed on it. It has a similar tip opening and facing length to my Fobes CF, but that mouthpiece takes a #3.5+/4 V12 in my hands.
Once I figured out the reeds, the mouthpiece has had a delightful balance of warmth and clarity on the sound. It has a resistance that is just enough to make tone shaping feel natural and wide intervals feel confident, but not so much that I am feeling like I'm doing excessive embouchure work or dealing with the kind of back pressure that can feel like a strain in the nose or throat.
I feel like, even with the soft reed and small tip opening, I can play significantly louder than I can on a B40-type of mouthpiece before the tone starts to really degrade, while also feeling like the tone holds together better at lower volumes without having to make any drastic adjustment. I found the B40, Backun Vocalise and other "darker" (to oversimply immensely) mouthpieces to be more work on either end of the dynamic spectrum. Much like the Fobes mouthpieces I have enjoyed in the recent past, there is a real sensation of efficiency for me.
Obviously no mouthpiece is for everyone, but I think if you are looking for a sound that is a little clearer and more colorful (I hesitate to say brighter) than some of the popular options right now, Brad's Sono is definitely worth your consideration. I know many players better than I who play mouthpieces that I don't like and sound wonderful, though, so you will have to decide for yourself.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2021-03-27 11:06
brycon wrote: "Why is complete effortlessness a goal?"
For someone like me who has embouchure dystonia, complete effortlessness is most definitely a goal.
I've read several posts about the Fobes CWF being "very free blowing". However, even that might require too much embouchure pressure and cause my right side embouchure muscles to self-contract and leave me with a short, semi-permanent right side smile that usually lasts around 3 days before the muscles start to relax.
I have exchanged emails with Paul Aviles and his further explanations about the Viotto N1 have helped me to have a clearer and better understanding of his emails from 3 years ago. I simply misunderstood his conceptual explanations that he presented.
I also need complete effortless for another reason. A few years ago, I had major surgery on my upper gum above my left front tooth. This has, unfortunately, left me with a tooth that absolutely cannot stand any pressure on it for more than a few seconds.
So for me and perhaps some others, complete effortlessness is not really a "want" but a necessary "need".
Post Edited (2021-03-27 21:02)
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2021-03-27 15:21
In my simple mind and as I understand it, the Behn "more sound, less effort"-philosophy is all about just one thing - which is reed strength. So the claim is simply that players in general would get a "better" sound with less reed strength (that is, mainly a clearer sound with less buzz, hissing, "airiness" and similar qualities usually associated with harder reeds).
Since we all know that harder reeds requires both increased embouchure pressure as well as more "blowing power", the "less effort" coming from softer reeds is just a "bonus" - and thus not a goal in itself.
I, and as I understand also many others on this board, have been former "biters" using unnecessary hard reeds that then needed to be clamped down for focus and clarity. When I finally abandoned the biting concept, with accordingly reduced reed strength, and also changed from a vertical to a circularly oriented embouchure (with my lips pressing like a rubber band all around the mouthpiece, instead of mainly just my jaw pressing against my upper teeth) my sound indeed got better. On my clarinets I also got better intonation, which is a bit strange, but that was the case. And yes, I would also say that I'm definitely using less "effort" now.
My interest in the Behn mouthpieces stems from an assumption that they may be kind of "optimized" for less reed strength, compared to what other mouthpieces may be.
That said, I may still not be a complete "Behn convert". Personally and at least currently, I would not take the reduced reed strength quite as far as I understand that Brad may me suggesting. While a softer reed undoubtedly sounds clearer and "better" at softer dynamics, there is also a threshold at going up in both dynamics and to higher notes when the sound gets what I perceive as "thin" - which can be avoided with a bit stronger reeds.
Post Edited (2021-03-27 19:40)
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2021-03-27 15:25
Dan, I'm just a bit curious about what kind of mouthpiece and reed strength you have found working best for you - since I suppose you have been experimenting a lot? Considering your embouchure dystonia, I also wonder if you would gain from completely abandoning a "rubber band" embouchure in favour of an old-fashioned "jaw-pressure" one - and thus using just enough lip pressure not to let air pass by, but not for making any pressure against the reed beside that. Though your sound may suffer a bit (perhaps even marginally?), I just think that it could be better to be able to play than not - or to be able to play more than less.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2021-03-27 20:41
Hi Micke,
I've been experimenting with closed and even very closed mpcs (1mm and below). Trying to use a standard embouchure with a 34 facing makes my side muscles crunch up quite a bit due to trying to keep a nice, flat chin with a thin, skin seating over my bottom teeth.
Now, the rubber band approach seems to be new to me. I've heard of the drawstring approach. I guess it's basically saying the same thing only using different words. However, "rubber band embouchure" just seemed to be more understandable to me than the "drawstring approach" for some unknown reason. Your suggested approach appears to have great value for me because my side muscles feel flatter and more straight up and down while pushing in. I just tried this approach on a Yamaha 3C mpc that I keep on my desk, and my bottom lip at a 34 facing seems quite thick (probably due to the smaller circumference). However, when I slide down to what I believe would be a 38 to 40 facing, my bottom lip seems to be thinner, again, probably due to the greater circumference around the mpc at that point. Another thing I just noticed is that when I slid from 34 to 40, my side muscles felt even flatter. Also, something else I just noticed... my upper front teeth don't even touch the mpc. Neat!
Thanks for the tip! I'm going to try it out latter on today when I have time.
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2021-03-27 21:33
Something to consider, when you play a high resistance setup that requires a lot of effort, it definitely comes across in the sound to the audience. The sound tends to be more strident, airy or even trombone like. And yes, darker. A setup that requires less tension, less back pressure not only has the benefit of more tonal clarity and brightness, but allows room to better shape the phrases and the sound. And again, this comes across to the audience pretty clearly.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-03-27 23:33
This would be a great time for Brad Behn to chime in on exactly what he feels is and ideal approach to embouchure, reed strength and tip opening. But I'll repeat what he said to me about eight years ago when I was still residually biting. After observing me play a few minutes trying his mouthpieces he said, "You are pressing the opening closer; what you should try is a slightly softer reed on a more closed mouthpiece. That way you are starting at the point where you get when pressing with the harder reed." Perhaps a bit paraphrased.
Oddly in the order process for the Sono a few weeks ago he apologized for having been as firm on that point back then. Though I cannot thank him enough for having led me toward a better path........eventually.
Dan,
I just tried moving my embouchure over to one tooth. INTERESTING! Nothing I've ever tried before (the necessity never came up). I thought it might make embouchure musculature work a little harder on the "farther side," but that was not really and issue. What I did find was that now the clarinet was not "locked" in to horizontal orientation (reed perpendicular to the floor). Now with the top of the mouthpiece balancing on one tooth the clarinet rotation was ALL dependent on how far up or down my right elbow was.
Fascinating.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2021-03-28 00:51
Paul, what I did to eliminate my left tooth pain was to simply cut the mpc patch in half so the left tooth was basically dangling. That took acre of one problem, however, because I was still trying to use "the standard embouchure technique", it didn't take long before my dystonia muscles started self-contracting.
Micke, the "rubber band embouchure" worked fairly good for me. I say fairly because my Yamaha 38 facing mpc behaved more like a 34, i.e., very resistant. I need a much longer facing mpc than what I have.
Post Edited (2021-03-28 05:27)
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Author: tdufka
Date: 2021-03-28 04:10
Micke wrote:
"That said, I may still not be a complete "Behn convert". Personally and at least currently, I would not take the reduced reed strength quite as far as I understand that Brad may be suggesting. While a softer reed undoubtedly sounds clearer and "better" at softer dynamics, there is also a threshold at going up in both dynamics and to higher notes when the sound gets what I perceive as "thin."
This is my experience as well. Of course any discussion of reed strength needs to take into account mouthpiece resistance.
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2021-03-31 11:26
"That said, I may still not be a complete "Behn convert". Personally and at least currently, I would not take the reduced reed strength quite as far as I understand that Brad may me suggesting. While a softer reed undoubtedly sounds clearer and "better" at softer dynamics, there is also a threshold at going up in both dynamics and to higher notes when the sound gets what I perceive as "thin" - which can be avoided with a bit stronger reeds."
I went through a similar process of wanting to use softer reeds on my old Fobes CF and butted up against this issue. I could get a good sound with the softer reeds (a 3.5 on that mouthpiece, down from a 4), but it was a bit of a knife edge keeping it in the "acceptable" range for me, since Clark's mouthpieces are fairly free-blowing. I think they are made to use a slightly harder reed than I was wanting to use.
Brad's Sono has a fair bit more resistance built into the mouthpiece such that using a softer reed doesn't give me that knife edge feeling and it is much easier to keep the tone in that acceptable range without so much conscious adjustment.
For me, the right resistance level gives me enough to feel like I have something to push against, but not so much that I need to do a lot of embouchure work. Just enough to keep the pitch up and nothing more.
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