 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-05-15 20:19
Attachment: demnitz.jpg (13k)
Hi,
I wondered if anyone might know whether there is a good recording somewhere of Demnitz Study in D (from Elementary School for
Clarinet)?
It's one of the performance pieces in the ABRSM Grade 4 exam for clarinet, and I've typed it into Sibelius to see what it's meant to sound like, but I'm not quite certain that that will be giving me the whole story.
I'm only wondering because it's full of long series of semi-quavers that are slurred together but which also all have staccato markings on every note and I'm not exactly sure what I'm meant to do with that.
I would be really grateful if anyone could point me in the direction of a recording or of another recorded piece that has a similar combination of slur and staccato.
I have attached an image of an example from the piece.
Thanks!
Jennifer
Adult learner, Grade 3
Equipment: Yamaha Custom CX Bb, Fobes 10K CF mp,
Legere Bb clarinet European Cut #2.5, Vandoren Optimum German Lig.
Post Edited (2020-05-15 20:22)
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-05-15 20:28
This is the one recording that I have found.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnKr-vf_dB8
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-05-15 21:18
I'm not sure what else you want to hear that isn't in the Nottingham Music Excellence video you linked us to. He plays it accurately. I haven't listened to his whole explication of the performance techniques that are involved, but his playing of it is a good enough model to learn from. It isn't a particularly artistic performance, but I doubt if you'll find anything much more ambitious.
What more do you want to hear from other recordings?
Karl
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-05-16 23:18
Hi Karl,
Thanks, that really good to know. I just had no idea really whether it was accurate.
I've got fairly confused recently because in grade 3 I had to play Charpentier's Prelude from Te Deum. I played it all wrong for ages until people pointed out to me that the timing in my written version was subtlely different from many of the different performances that are on YouTube. It took ages to figure out how I was actually meant to play it.
Now I am completely doubting everything that I hear, but without the technical knowledge to actually figure out what is right and what is wrong.
It's good to know that you think that performance of the Demnitz study sounds right.
Thanks!
Jen
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2020-05-17 17:20
A staccato mark really means separated, and a slur really means smoothly.
Find something in the music to have it communicate to the listener. There is no 'only' way. Listening to others lets you hear what they are saying, but developing your own way to say something is a good goal. The video, to me, is saying 2+2=4 and 3+3=6. Very mechanical, but not saying much else. Find your own way, no matter what you think the listeners expect. That is artistry.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-05-17 17:47
My understanding of the dots-under-slurs notation has been that it comes from string notation (hooked bowing) in which the slur means to keep the bow moving in the same direction (not back and forth) and the dots mean to separate the notes themselves by stopping the bow to end each note. It sounds different from alternating staccato strokes (back and forth) and produces lighter articulation. There is a slightly different variation with tenuto lines under the slur, which implies pressing slightly for each note to articulate it instead of actually stopping the bow.
Karl
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2020-05-17 17:56
Hi All,
I have always used a very legato tongue (du, du, du...) with staccato under a slur. The separation between pitches be they repetitive or moving should be very light.
HRL
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-05-17 18:17
Thanks Hank, Ken and Karl,
That has really given me a lot to think about.
I would love to make this study sound musical, so I will think about doing that, and how I could do it in my own way. I used to play the violin so Karl's comments make a lot of sense to me, and are also really helpful. Hank's comments about using a sound to guide my articulation are great, as I haven't got that far yet. At the moment I just think about moving my tongue.
I'll have a ponder. Thanks!
Jen
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2020-05-17 18:45
I suppose the "official" term for slurred staccato notes is "portato" or "mezzo-staccato", as explained here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portato
I also execute it as described by Hank, with light tonguing and with the shortest possible but still perceivable separation or "silence" between the notes - as I also hear it on the above YouTube video.
Metronomes with a tap feature are also found as free smartphone/tablet apps, as the "Mobile Metronome" that I'm using on an Android device.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-05-18 14:00
Hi Micke,
Thanks, that's really helpful.
That Wikipedia article seems to have two different views of this.
It says the same about slur + staccato as Karl says above (about it being a violin bowing mark-up) and calls it portato.
However, it then also says some people say that portato is the same as portamento, which it then says is effectively a glissando.
I'm not meant to be aiming for a glissando am I?
Thanks!
Jen
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-05-18 18:53
SunnyDaze wrote:
> However, it then also says some people say that portato is the
> same as portamento, which it then says is effectively a
> glissando.
>
> I'm not meant to be aiming for a glissando am I?
>
No. This discrepancy is more about what "portato" is. Whether or not it's "the same" as "portamento" is arguable. Anyone I've ever heard use "portamento" meant the gliss - carrying the sound - connecting two notes of different pitches without an intervening articulation. Vocalists do it all the time. String players use it for effect in place of string crossings. That isn't what's meant by dots- or lines-under-slurs.
Karl
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2020-05-18 21:21
I studied with Bernard Portnoy for a while - great player and great human being.
He taught how to move fingers slowly to cover holes to simulate portamento. It also prevents the popping sound some players get slapping the fingers on the holes. Not pretty!
Two examples;
https://rharl25.wixsite.com/clarinetcentral/bernard-portnoy
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-05-18 21:57
Thanks, I'll take a look. :-) I love that being a great (I presume kind) human is so highly valued here. That's a lovely thing in a community where excellence also counts for so much.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-05-18 22:08
Oh wow! That run of notes at the beginning of Strauss "Don Quixote" Mvt1 sounds like magic. Crikey he must have been good.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2020-05-19 01:11
Wow, Portnoy's bio lists him playing under Reiner, Ormandy, Szell and Toscanini.
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Author: donald
Date: 2020-05-19 15:40
The mezzo staccato gets interpreted differently in different countries (for example, my experience has been that players in USA prefer it to be more legato, while UK players advise notes to be more separated than USA players, this is however only my personal experience) but also in different pieces/styles/context.
I would interpret it differently depending on the character of the piece, and what the passage we find it in is achieving musically.
But most of the time I'd do tend to play mezzo staccato in the way Hank describes it above, that would be my "default mode".
I have one piece I teach to students where (if they are talented enough) I get them to play a mezzo staccato passage that has a rit- and experiment with either of these two ways to play it...
- start more separated, and make the notes more legato as you slow down
- start more legato, and make the notes more separated as you slow down
The passage works both ways, and requires a high degree of artistry (for a student) AND gets them THINKING about articulation and interpretation.
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