 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2019-10-14 07:23
Why do notes play sharper in pitch if I start them with a full breath than they do when I start them on a partial breath? The difference can be 5-cents or more. Volume and sound quality seem identical, and my embouchure and voicing also seem identical, but the tuning differs. Presumably something I'm doing causes this; maybe it's to do with filling the chest higher up? I'd like to understand what, why, and how to control it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2019-10-14 11:21
I suppose you mean that the notes play sharper in the beginning, after a full breath, but then evens out in perhaps 1-2 seconds on a sustained note, or on the following notes until the next full breath. If so, then I had the same problem with my previous embouchure, which was based on "vertical pressure" (in my case even some "biting", though it wasn't excessive).
However, this changed after switching to a "horizontal" or "side pressure" embouchure (with the side muscles around your mouth pushing in, like when whistling, but still keeping your lower lip flat) and with almost no "vertical pressure" at all (almost only what is needed to seal your lips around the mouthpiece, but with the lower teeth/jaw "pressing" down instead of up, to help flattening out the lower lip).
Now on most of the scale there is no sharpness at all in the beginning of a note with this "side pressure embouchure", but for some reason there is still some in the lower clarion - but only there.
I can't explain why a "vertical pressure" embouchure causes sharpness after a full inhaling, but from my own experience above there seems at least to be a correlation.
This sharpness problem was one of the reasons why I changed my embouchure, besides that my tone got better. The "side pressure" embouchure is also a more relaxed way of playing.
For tuning reasons I still need some increased vertical pressure in the third, or altissimo register (on some notes there even some "biting").
Post Edited (2019-10-14 11:28)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2019-10-14 15:51
I believe that is normal, the begining of a tune usually begins a tiny bit sharp and immediatey goes down to "normal" in most cases so it's not actually audible to the ear, unless of course it remains sharp for any length of time. If that's the case I would think it has more to do with the embouchure or throat, perhaps even the tongue than it does with the breathing.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-10-14 21:09
I'd agree with Ed on this one. I think that the more physical act of consciously taking a deep breath promotes more physicality in general..........if you're not careful to isolate one action from another.
Just in general there is a tendency to speed up and play sharper as one gets caught up in a chart that starts humming along (and you get a bit overly emotionally involved). Same thing.
............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2019-10-14 21:56
Hi Luuk. Thank you for that link; the article explains some things but leaves a number of questions open. For example, does it imply that the same problem must occur on all wind instruments?
I spent some time searching this forum using keywords "intonation" and "pitch", but after most of an hour I ran out of patience. Do you or does anyone have a link to related discussions on this question?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2019-10-15 00:49
>> I'd agree with Ed on this one. I think that the more physical act of consciously taking a deep breath promotes more physicality in general..........if you're not careful to isolate one action from another.
>> Just in general there is a tendency to speed up and play sharper as one gets caught up in a chart that starts humming along (and you get a bit overly emotionally involved). Same thing.>>
More idiocy.
>> Hi Luuk. Thank you for that link; the article explains some things but leaves a number of questions open. For example, does it imply that the same problem must occur on all wind instruments? >>
Yes, of course. You can adjust for it, but the tendency towards it is still there as a result of the physics and chemistry of the situation.
Tony
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-10-15 02:36
Of course Tony I am not referring to members of the London Philharmonic, but rather your run of the mill high school band or community group player. I refer to the "higher, louder, faster" syndrome. If you are not aware........mazel tov.
I didn't see the article prior to my initial submission. I see where they are going with this, although the chemical differential would I think be rather small with regard to the CO2 vs tidal air. Now when we speak of burping (I humbly submit this is an area of expertise), the actual gas involved (since we are NOT talking about the lungs but rather the stomach) is sulphur dioxide and I would further say there can be as much as a full semi-tone difference (some gases are just much more dense.........or light........try helium for example).
...........Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Luuk ★2017
Date: 2019-10-15 11:31
Paul, the idea that SO2 is involved has also already been discussed. If there is SO2 coming from your body it's time to lay down in your grave. SO2 is very toxic and luckily is not involved.
See http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=471767&t=471628, http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=225024&t=224877, etc. etc.
Please search the archives on 'CO2', for instance.
Regards,
Luuk
Philips Symphonic Band
The Netherlands
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dibbs
Date: 2019-10-15 13:37
Heavens Paul, you'd know about it if sulphur dioxide was coming from your stomach. It a highly irritant gas, you'd be coughing and spluttering like crazy.
It's usually just air, from swallowing it with food or carbon dioxide from fizzy drinks. I suppose there could be microbially produced gasses like hydrogen sulphide but would be unusual and you'd definitely know about that too.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-10-15 15:53
Good heavens, perhaps this company should just go out of business:
https://smartmouth.com
The mucosal layer prevents all the toxic and corrosive chemicals from burning you up from the inside out, but face it folks, digestion is nasty business.
..............Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2019-10-15 15:56)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
