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 That extra pad on the lower joint of some clarinets
Author: Ed Lowry 
Date:   2019-06-06 03:28

German clarinets and a growing number of Boehm system clarinets, especially high end clarinets, have a pad on the lower joint between the [F3]and [E3] pads. This pad cannot be operated independently, as it closes with activation of the pinky fingers controlling [F3] (or [C5])

I assume this aids in tuning. My question is what is the theory behind this pad, and why is it only fairly recently appearing on contemporary clarinets? Is it worth the extra weight, need for adjustment, and whatever increased cost it entails?

Thoughts would be appreciated.



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 Re: That extra pad on the lower joint of some clarinets
Author: Bennett 2017
Date:   2019-06-06 03:57
Attachment:  Fsharp.png (119k)

Clarinet Acoustics by O. Lee Gibson pp 44-45 addresses this

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 Re: That extra pad on the lower joint of some clarinets
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2019-06-06 04:48

More simply put, the Boehm idea was to make fingering a bit easier and put a little tuning in the hands of the player - the long B would be a little sharp and the low E and F would be a little flat.

As we started to be more conscious of the differences between Boehm and Oehler tuning of late, Buffet (starting with the Tosca) and Yamaha (the CSG line), have added the extra key to raise the low F slightly (venting on the joint CANNOT affect low E...Yamaha in New York has created a vent option that uses the bell that works for both low notes).

Personally I do like the attempt but until the vent is universally added to the bell, I find the extra keywork pointless.



..............Paul Aviles



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 Re: That extra pad on the lower joint of some clarinets
Author: donald 
Date:   2019-06-06 05:35

I actually think the post is enquiring about what we call a "double f/c pad" not a low F correction key?

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 Re: That extra pad on the lower joint of some clarinets
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2019-06-06 06:29

Well thank you for the correction. I honestly never heard of that or saw one before. I will seek some images on the interweb.



..............Paul Aviles

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 Re: That extra pad on the lower joint of some clarinets
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2019-06-06 06:35

Ok, doing a search on my phone is beyond frustrating (won't have computer access until Sunday).


Can anyone post a manufacturer and model that has this feature so I can directly search an image?


..............Paul Aviles

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 Re: That extra pad on the lower joint of some clarinets
Author: Ed Lowry 
Date:   2019-06-06 06:52

Paul --

There are a pair of Rossi clarinets up for auction sale. Both (in the same case) have the pad that I'm asking about.

.... Ed.

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 Re: That extra pad on the lower joint of some clarinets
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2019-06-06 07:38

Rossi changes his options up a lot. On his website there is a model called the Cenit which automatically engages a low F correction vent without a separate key to press. A double case image on the web that I see seems to be way more complex and does offer a separate key to engage the low F correction.

There are a myriad other reasons to consider (or rule out) the Rossis (mono body is another biggy).

Again I would vote for simplicity of design over more stuff any day. But you may love the sound of the Rossis over all else and that would be all that matters.



.............Paul Aviles



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 Re: That extra pad on the lower joint of some clarinets
Author: donald 
Date:   2019-06-06 08:33

Go to the for sale page and look at the Uebel pair. If no one else has explained it I'll do so when I get home...

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 Re: That extra pad on the lower joint of some clarinets
Author: clarnibass 
Date:   2019-06-06 09:02

This key doesn't affect F/C except it has to be adjusted accurately for it (also E/B and to a lesser degree F#/C#) to work well.

It is for venting the G/D, which is a slightly more resistant note as a result of being an "under" vented note. Meaning the next tone hole, the one for the F#/C#, is closed.
It's why the tone hole under the F/C key is usually significantly larger than the one under the E/B key.

I guess some makers consider that two tone holes at specific sizes and locations result in a better G/D than one tone hole with the largest realistic size.
Many bass clarinets have are made that way (for at least a few decades).
Whether the "problem" is enough that it's worth the extra mechanism is for every maker and player to decide when making/buying a clarinet.

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 Re: That extra pad on the lower joint of some clarinets
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2019-06-06 13:51

Oh, this is a Reform Boehm issue. All the years I spent with Oehler and Boehm, I never looked at the hybrids....sorry.


............Paul Aviles



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 Re: That extra pad on the lower joint of some clarinets
Author: Ed Lowry 
Date:   2019-06-06 19:59

So it looks like some Boehm manufacturers have incorporated the established reform arrangement for those mechanisms.

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 Re: That extra pad on the lower joint of some clarinets
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2019-06-06 21:40

On Albert/simple systems (if fitted) and on German and Oehler systems, the double pad cups on the F/C key perform another function besides fully venting G/D.

It's called the 'patent C#' mechanism and offers the player a low register E/F# and upper register B/C# trill by playing/holding down the (LH) E/B and trilling with the (RH) F/C key.

On Boehm and reform Boehm systems it serves to fully vent G/D.

Leblanc made some soprano clarinets back in the '50s or thereabouts with the doubled pad cups on the F/C key as well as the improved throat Bb mechanism with two separate vents linked to the throat A key as on pro Leblanc basset horns, alto and bass clarinets to determine when either the throat B vent and speaker vent opened instead of the one speaker tube performing two duties as it normally does.

Chris.

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 Re: That extra pad on the lower joint of some clarinets
Author: donald 
Date:   2019-06-08 09:20

At the end of the 19th century German makers (mainly Oskar Oehler and his disciples) learnt that there were advantages to keeping the bore in the lower joint as cylindrical as possible - a design characteristic that remains to this day. The flare in the bore that is present in the lower 3rd of the Boehm joint happens much later in the Oehler clarinet. This has a few positive effects on the tone, and makes upward slurs/leaps into the altissimo register smoother. However it also makes the tones at the lower end of the instrument stuffier UNLESS there is more venting - hence the double tone hole (and the hole in the bell that helps vent E/B, this hole was originally not there for intonation but response).
It is noticeable that on many modern Boehm clarinets the G/D at the bottom of the instrument is a slightly stuffy note, and it seldom has a tone as "ringy" at that of the F/C and A/E either side of it. Having the double tone hole helps to even up the response and tone quality of these notes by brightening the G/D. It may also be used to allow the bore to remain cylindrical further down the joint, but it appears Boehm makers have not found this to be necessary.
As pointed out above, in German system clarinets the double hole allows the "patent C#" fingering, which allows the E/B to F#/C# interval to be played by lifting the right hand little finger. I don't know which came first - the tonal advantage or the fingering advantage (or if it was all pre planned in a stroke of design genius). Albert in Brussels used this fingering/key extensively but I don't know if he actually invented it, or if one of the German makers did.
dn



Post Edited (2019-06-08 09:29)

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 Re: That extra pad on the lower joint of some clarinets
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2019-06-08 19:53

From what I gather, the patent C# was invented by Albert as simple systems before then either had a single key for F/C or a plain tonehole on a raised bush. The patent C# makes an E-F#/B-C# and also an F#-G#/C#-D# (and their enharmonic equivalent) slur or trill much easier as a result of it being fitted.

Chris.

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