 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ScottFree
Date: 2019-02-19 06:26
Hello,
Do any of you know anything about a 1969 vintage Herbert Wurlitzer Reform Boehm clarinet? Is this a good vintage as those clarinets go? How does it compare to his father Fritz's Reform Boehms? Etc. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who knows about and has had experience with these clarinets. Thank you!
Scott
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2019-02-19 18:25
I had a quick play on one once and I really liked it - the owner played the Ebony Concerto and Prelude, Fugue and Riffs on it with us.
If you've got a chance to have it on trial, do that if it's possible to see how you get on with it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Clarimellonet
Date: 2019-02-19 19:24
I use a matched set of HW 185s as my "modern" clarinets. I absolutely love them, but there is a fairly decent adjustment period to get used to them. A lot of French/American mouthpieces simply don't work as well with them and won't let them ring as much as they couple with a German or Austrian mouthpiece with a wider exit bore. I was lucky that the set I purchased came with four Viotto mouthpieces (both the N1 and the N1+2), which I used for a while until I felt comfortable enough to make mouthpieces that felt more comfortable to me but kept the response and tuning of the Viottos.
Obviously the fingerings are almost identical to the French instruments, but depending on which model of Wurlitzer you're looking at, there may be some intonation issues and fingering issues that can crop up. If the model you're looking at has a ring for L3, you won't be able to play low B to low D simply by raising L3, so you'll have to lift both L3 and R2 in order to do a quick tremelo between those pitches. The left hand clarion B and C can tend toward sharp if you voice them like you would on a French mouthpiece, so a few HW players I know tend to learn to play soft attacks on those notes without the register key at all! I've never had that problem, but I used German and Austrian mouthpeices from the start, so I tried not to go into this with any preconceptions. Throat tones are much easier to voice without resonance fingerings, but the trade off is that some of the alternate altissimo fingerings using the A and Ab keys aren't as secure as one would prefer, particularly on the Eb clarinet. Some people find the slightly shorter left hand pinky keys bothersome, as well as the position of the thumbrest, but those can be adjusted, similarly, some take issue with the elongated Eb/Bb side key that comes on some models, but I actually love it.
I would say the learning period took me a month or so to get used to the technical and intonation issues on the HW instruments and about 9 months of experimenting with setups and reeds to get the sound I was looking for. You can go a couple different ways as far as setups. Modern German and Austrian mouthpieces are obviously the most natural choice, but if you're wanting to stick to French reeds, the PlayNick mouthpieces, the M30D and B40D from Vandoren, and the Hans Colbers mouthpieces are also excellent and can have the same response and tuning with a more "familiar" feel. I think the switch is worth the investment of time and money, but it would be a "switch." No HW players I know personally have ever gone back to Buffet or Selmer afterwards, and indeed my own R13s feel totally foreign to me now.
Good luck!
Thomas Carroll
Historical Clarinets and Chalumeaux
http://carrollclarinet.com
lotzofgrenser@gmail.com
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Author: rtaylor
Date: 2019-02-19 20:58
Hi Scott,
Thomas listed some very good points. I've played Reform-Boehm clarinets now for 16 years. I have played both the Wurlitzer 185 & 187 models as well as the Leitner & Kraus V420 model.
As I understand it, your 1969 model would most likely have been made or overseen by Herbert Wurlitzer himself. He was both the owner and master technician up until his death in early 1990's.
Wurlitzer's under went a redesign after Herbert's death so contemporary models would not be like your 1969 model. Because of this difference your best choice for mouthpieces would be German style Wurlitzer models. Intonation on anything but a Wurlitzer mouthpiece could have uneven results. People can make other brands work but it depends on what your pitch requirements are. If you have situations where you need to play lower than about A=442, it is very difficult get the instruments to play this low as they are typically pitched to A=442-443. An instrument pitched to A=440 would require significant design differences to achieve this.
Cheers,
Robert
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2019-02-20 01:00
Scott, I only have experience from Wurlitzer RB's from 2002 onward. However, if you are new to these instruments a basic approach concerning tuning that I would recommend is to play the second register (particularly the upper clarion) with exactly the same embouchure pressure as the first register - also with German or Austrian mouthpieces.
I know some French system players are denying any tightening of their embouchure in the upper clarion compared to below of that, but after years of actually doing so it may come so automatically that they don't recognize it any longer. Anyway, just to be sure you are not doing that on a RB clarinet, you can fool yourself by supporting the bell with your knees, taking off your right hand, playing a first register C and then pressing the register key with your RIGHT hand thumb to get clarion G. This may be enough to "turn off" any automated tightening of your embouchure. Check both notes with a tuner and do the same with the rest of the left hand notes (if you have a friend available, he or she could also press the register key for you to fool you even better  ). You may be surprised how well both registers are in tune. However, especially the first register e4 and to some degree also the notes around it will probably be flat (I use special fingerings on d#4, e4, f4 and f#4).
The third register will probably need some tightening of your embouchure, as on French system clarinets.
If this clarinet has the l.h. 3 ring, the ADVANTAGES of that are 1) you can play a forked clarion Bb (as l.h. XOX) and 2) you can play a trill from clarion f# to g# by moving ONLY your l.h. ring finger - thus altering between XXX|OXO and XXO|OXO.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2019-02-20 07:12
Quote:
I know some French system players are denying any tightening of their embouchure in the upper clarion compared to below of that, but after years of actually doing so it may come so automatically that they don't recognize it any longer.
I am almost two years into my switch to HW reform Boehm, and I can attest to this point. When I was six months in, with my “most loose” embouchure, I was 40 cents sharp on my upper clarion notes. Now I can play them flat!
And 40 cents sharp.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Reformed
Date: 2019-02-20 11:44
Just to echo comments of others and based on my experience with Yamaha copies of RBs from this period (i.e. before the later bore changes):
- Mouthpiece is critical to the tuning. Use a German bore mouthpiece not a "Reform" mouthpiece, e.g. Zinner, recent Wurlitzer or Leitner & Kraus. The German mouthpiece bore has a much sharper cone, starting at 15.00mm and getting down to nearly 14.00mm near the baffle. The Reform mouthpieces only reduce to (maybe) 14.5/14.6mm, this results in the clarion register being way sharp.
- Relaxation of the embouchure is key, not only for intonation but to get that sound
- Changing from unreformed Boehm's may take a year to fully adapt your ways
Yamaha actually supplied modern Reform mouthpieces with my instruments and I am embarrassed how long it took me to realise their mistake. The lesson from that is to use the advice of others, I think. It would be worth finding a good teacher who actually uses RBs for a playing career.
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Author: ScottFree
Date: 2019-02-21 06:02
Hello Everyone, Thank you to all of you for taking the time to share all of this information! This particular 185 has a 15mm bore, so I'm sure it is different from the current 185s. It will take some time to figure out a set up that works. I've been curious about the Wurlitzers for a long time, so I'll probably give it a shot.
Scott
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2019-02-22 13:22
Scott, the bore measurements of the Wurlitzer RB's has changed somewhat "back and forth" through the years. Currently the upper end of the upper joint is 15.0 mm, and the lower end of it is 14.6 (I measured a set last year). My set from 2002 was originally 14.8 mm at the upper end (now between 14.9 and 15.0, depending on humidity as I suppose) and I know that changed a few years later to 14.85. Still basic tuning characteristics were quite similar at least between my set and the one I tried out last year.
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Author: ScottFree
Date: 2019-02-26 10:13
Hi Micke,
Yes, apparently they've gotten smaller over the years. This one from '69 is 15mm at the center, (bottom of top joint). Quite a different blow from the current 185.
Scott
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