 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bubalooy
Date: 2018-11-20 14:12
I have a Leblanc LL clarinet. The middle joint tenon seems to be a bit small. The joints wobble while playing or the lower joint turns. The local repair person has placed a thicker and a bit wider cork on it, and it's better, but it isn't really right. Are there alternatives?
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2018-11-20 16:22
Send it to Larry Frank of Frank Woodwinds and he will make a new tenon out of grenadilla wood on a lathe and using CA glue will attach it permanently. He is an expert at this. I have had him do many clarinets for me this way before I resell them. Problem solved forever.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-11-20 20:06
It'll only need the tenon rings remade, not a new tenon.
The existing tenon rings are turned down and there are many ways to rebuild the tenon rings (either remaking or making and fitting the individual tenon rings or sleeving the entire tenon and recutting the cork slot) so they're a good fit in the tenon and don't rock or wobble even without the tenon cork fitted.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2018-11-23 11:21
Agree with Chris. I've never needed to make a new tenon if it was just loose or worn. Sleeving or building up the shoulders is significantly quicker and just as reliable and long lasting. I've only made new tenons to replace ones that have broken off.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2018-11-23 15:53
So Clarinbass,
Do tenons break off of wood clarinets?
.......and........
Is it possible replace a tenon broken from a Buffet Greenline?
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2018-11-23 21:44
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Sure. I guess (my impression from repairers mainly in the USA) that it's much more common where there are marching bands, school bands, etc. Locally it is not so common so I haven't seen that many.
I attached photos of a tenon that broke on a wood bass clarinet.
Re Greenlines, I've seen more than a few reports of tenons breaking. Supposedly something was changed (maybe the material itself) to make them less brittle, so it's supposed to be more resistant now. Locally I haven't seen a broken one yet but Greenlines are very rare here.
Post Edited (2018-11-24 10:00)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2018-11-24 00:43
Incredible images ........thanks for sharing.
As for Greenlines, I have been personally responsible for two! That was circa 2008 through 2013. The first was a horn placed on its bell during rehearsal that had a the lyre attachment on it. Naturally just after I was warned that the horn could tip over without a stand......it did, right on its face. It was a thin rubber flooring over a concrete floor and the impact hit the stubby end of the lyre attachment.......snapped the center tenon right off.
The second was really stupid. I was in a boring rehearsal that I probably didn't want to play in the first place. I half heartedly tried to rest the bell of the horn on the edge of a folding chair. It slipped and the clarinet hit the floor bell end as I caught it by the barrel. Being linoleum over (yet another) concrete floor), the bell snapped clean off.
And with this history, I have ordered a Greenline horn for myself. I think I will only play in venues with shag carpets over wooden flooring!
................Paul Aviles
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2018-11-24 10:15
>> And with this history, I have ordered a Greenline horn for myself. <<
Hopefully they have changed it and it's more durable. A couple of repairers mentioned this but I have no idea where they heard about it or if it's really true.
>> Incredible images ........thanks for sharing. <<
Maybe worth mentioning, I usually don't do grafts even for broken tenons. I prefer to re-glue with reinforcement pins, which is at least as strong as a graft. If the broken tenon allows it, then it's much quicker and simpler with no disadvantage (though still a pretty significant amount of work). Worked great even for a bass clarinet middle socket.
I only grafted a new tenon for the one in the photo (it's a Buffet 1193 bass) because there wasn't space around the circumference for enough pins. I actually reinforced the graft with a few pins. You can vaguely see the pin holes and tiny pin vent holes in the 4th photo.
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Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2018-11-24 11:10
When I first bought my Centered Tone it had a middle tenon that had suffered (obviously) from aggressive sanding of tenon corks over the years. I had Votaw Tool turn down the O.D. and make an ABS sleeve to go over the wood tenon, so the bore remains all wood (not that I'm particularly superstitious about that). I'm very happy with the result and it's still my primary clarinet
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Author: Windy Dreamer
Date: 2018-11-24 17:11
I've always regarded my repaired clarinets as something less than true clarinets. They function well and my repairs are hard to find. in some cases they are next to impossible to find.A few days ago I stumbled across a video called " Clarinet Tuning and Voicing with Morrie Backun and Ricardo Morales " . I was shocked to see Morrie grabbing reemers and reefing away on that 2 year old clarinet.It makes me question the concepts of mint and unaltered that are common to most collectable markets. It also makes me question the once in a lifetime clarinet purchase that will satisfy for life. I hate to think of clarinets as consumables that you wear out and discard.
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2018-11-24 17:23
Larry Frank of Frank Woodwinds will make a grenadilla sleeve that is nearly impossible to detect after attaching it. Expert that knows exactly how to repair clarinets.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2018-11-24 20:40
Windy Dreamer wrote:
> It makes me question the concepts of mint
> and unaltered that are common to most collectable markets.
Good.
An instrument is just a tool, not a holy relic to be venerated. Good workmen sharpen their knives and planes, reshape and reforge their tools to make them suitable to their needs. Just like almost every instrument. When i had a grand piano i had the Renner action taken apart and put together because we didn't like the feel. That Stradivarius has been taken apart and put back together numerous times. They're tools in the hands of musicians.
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Author: Windy Dreamer
Date: 2018-11-24 21:05
I am glad I saw that video. I have a lot of respect for both Morrie and Ricardo . Watching them happily achieve their goals in such a relaxed state has radically transformed my view of repair and alteration.I have read many posts by people who suffer for years with high end clarinets that need a little reaming. I believe the goal of the video is to help those sufferers to confront reality and get their instruments tuned.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2018-11-25 01:50
Well yes.........but.......
Morrie is amongst a handful of artisan repair people who know what they are doing, much like Moenig before him. If you are not lucky enough to have someone to sit down with and work with you like that, it may be better to cut your losses and move on.
Just remember, even with that, Ricardo is now using Uebel. Go figure.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Windy Dreamer
Date: 2018-11-25 03:07
Over the few years I have been playing and renovating written off clarinets I have been tormented by questions of what happens to them down the road. After watching that video I am at rest on that issue. Two days ago a woman called in respose to my ad seeking disfunctional , broken and or rotted clarinets for amateur hobby restoration and play. She said she loved the ad and wanted to buy a clarinet from me. I told her that my clarinets were merely folk instruments and probably not capable of concert pitch performance. She said she did not care. She just wanted to share in the quest of bringing life to an otherwise lost clarinet.
On the original question of wobbly tenons. I tighten mine by wrapping narrow strips of plastic chocolate bar wrapper around the tenon where necessary. Sometimes they last for months . At other times only days. I keep a few wrappers and strips with my tools just in case I need them for that use.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2018-11-25 03:15
A roll of plumbers teflon tape will do a much better job of tightening loose tenons than candy wrappers. Cost you a couple of bucks at your local hardware store.
Tony F.
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Author: Windy Dreamer
Date: 2018-11-25 04:04
I learned about teflon tape at a music store a few weeks ago. When I asked for paper and scissors to wrap my mouthpiece tenon for a play test she took my moithpiece , tested the wobble and teflon taped it.Teflon tape looks promising for a temporary body tenon problem. I have since added it to my tool box. I have one mouthpiece that travels between three clarinets. The tape is hard to get off and difficult to reuse .I use only chocolate bar wrappers for the traveling mouthpiece because they are easy to remove and reuse.
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