 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2018-08-21 16:30
Hi all,
I’m usually a B40 player. I’ve got a chamber concert of Beethoven works coming up, and I wondered if it would be appropriate to try B40D or M30D for this? Are these models designed for french system players or are they strictly for German clarinets?
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2018-08-23 19:26
I have a M30D and a B40D, and the tenons on both are small enough to fit into French size barrels. The cork is thicker to keep the mouthpiece tight also in a German barrel (with larger sockets), but when fitted a few times into a French barrel the cork will compress and no longer hold tight with a German barrel (no problem of course if you always use it with French barrels). I suppose this "concept" is true also about the BD5D.
If I remember correctly, the tenon on these D-models is also a little bit longer compared to regular French mouthpieces, so when fitted to a French barrel there will be a little gap in between.
Some players use these D-models on French clarinets, though they are primarily targeted for German or Reform-Boehm instruments.
As far as I know, the VD2,3,4 and 5 are different. I don't know if the small size tenon (22,0 mm) of those may suit a French barrel, but at least the larger size (22,4 mm) is too large. It suites only German barrels. Measuring the diameter of a regular French mouthpiece tenon would probably tell if the smaller one would suit or not.
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2018-08-23 21:28
Might I make a suggestion here. Your query hints that you’re looking for a more German sound.
Instead of staying with mass-produced mouthpieces, I think you may greatly benefit from a true artisan-made piece.
I am quite a fan of Clark Fobes mouthpieces (as well as Walter Grabner’s wonderful pieces as well). In my quest for a darker and more Germanic sound, I tried the Fobes Europa series. They are made for the Boehm, but features a long lay curve, Euro-style rails, and accurate openings. Personally I found the Europa 2 to be perfect for what I was looking for. A long lay, around 19 mm, and a 1.04 mm tip opening. His chamber is designed for the darker sound, as well. I loved this piece to the point of ordering 2 spares! I also like, and several of my friends have converted to the Fobes 10K-2L. I use this one quite often as well, and also purchased 1 spare, as have a couple of my friends (of the 5) who love these pieces.
These are wonderful, and may solve your quest!
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2018-08-31 22:35
I just received a VD4 with the small shank and I can confirm it fits my French barrel. This is the first time I’ve ever played on a mouthpiece like this and I’m amazed! The sound is great. Intonation is good, maybe a little on the low side. But the ease and comfort is what really stands out. I just blow without any embouchure work and a pretty sound comes out. Pretty exciting. I need to try different reeds as the aria reeds I use are a little wide and soft for this mouthpiece.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2018-08-31 23:47
The Vandoren VD2, VD4, and VD5 German models were designed to be played with German cut reeds. In the latest Vandoren catalog, these models appear to have been dropped and replaced with three new German models (also designed for use with German cut reeds): the Vandoren D15, Vandoren D20, and Vandoren D25. (All this is in addition to the German Vandoren models designed to be used with French cut reeds, the M30D and the M40D.)
https://www.vandoren-en.com/file/196801.
Post Edited (2018-09-01 01:35)
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2018-09-01 01:15
Are any German orchestral players using Vandoren D models? Looks like Vandoren is trying hard to get the market.
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2018-09-01 03:17
I bought the D4 on sale. Currently trying to decide what size white masters and German cut Legere to try. I wonder if the new vandoren German mouthpieces come with the small shank option as well for French clarinets.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2018-09-01 04:12
Vandoren recommends White Masters in 2 to 3 1/2 and the new Vandoren V21 GERMAN reed also in 2 to 3 1/2 for most of their German/Geman-reed model mouthpieces.
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2018-09-01 04:13
Is that the white master traditional or non-traditional. I’ve seem on the board here someone mentioning the strength feeling different between the two.
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Author: donald
Date: 2018-09-02 03:44
I first tried the Vandoren M30D some years ago, and as a player who has always valued "brightness" and "sweetness" in clarinet sound, and rallied somewhat against the tendency to sound "German" (which in my experience usually means that the French clarinet won't project well). I did NOT like it, at all. I found the facing quite easy to play and immediately adapted to it, but found the sound very dead.
At that time I was playing Lomax A3, and a Viotto as a backup, and thought nothing more of it.
Several years later my wife persuaded me to give it another go- she plays on M30D and certainly does NOT have a dull sound that doesn't project!!!!! I stuck with it for a few weeks (the same mouthpiece I'd tried years earlier), then for a while stole her reeds.... and had to adjust my "voicing" slightly. I eventually dropped a whole half size from the reeds that I had originally been trying on this mouthpiece, and mix in a combination of Vandoren Traditionals, V21 and V12. For teaching (and practise if I've only got 10-20min and want to get straight to work, which happens often) I use a Legere Sop sax reed, this is especially convenient if I arrive late for rehearsal, can just slap it on and get playing with little bother!
The point being, after initially rejecting this mouthpiece option largely for reasons that have been voiced on this BB (if not this thread), I changed my mind, and have now never been happier with my sound.
*After using these mouthpieces exclusively for 2.5 years, I note that I use barrels 1mm shorter than in 2015, but I made the change in summer weather when flatness wasn't an issue so this wasn't immediately obvious.
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2018-09-02 09:04
Donald, what size reeds do you use now compared to before? Karl Leister I’m the video Paul shared says he uses 2,5 Rue Lepic!
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Author: donald
Date: 2018-09-02 12:20
I was using V12 3.5+ and/or Rico Reserve 4+. I first came down to 3.5, and found the 3s too soft in the various Vandoren options, but last year has seen me come down to 3s. It seems that despite being well versed in the "high tongue position to control airspeed" mantra I was still procuring a bright core sound by tensing my throat. The more I fix that the softer reeds I need for some reason.
The odd thing is, I can recall playing my teacher's setup in 1995 and wondering how he could sound so good with such a light setup. All these years later, I get it!
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2018-09-02 20:57
Yes, learning to use a lighter setup seems to end up with better results than having to tense up to get a sound out.
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Author: DaphnisetChloe
Date: 2018-11-02 15:09
@fernie121 how did you find the Vandoren D4? Did it fit the barrel of your Boehm system clarinets? Curious if it works with them.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2018-11-02 19:36
I tried them as I try out most mouthpieces. Plays a tad flat on the Yamaha horns so they most likely will play flat on Buffets. Watch out for the upper register above high C.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2018-11-03 10:10
The small shank D4 fit my regular boehm barrel with no problem. It does stick out a hair though and the intonation is flat. For tuning purposes you would need a shorter barrel. Maybe as low as 64 or 63 if you normally use 66 like I do. My 65 was still a bit too flat. My V12 reeds work okay. The Behn Aria reeds worked surprisingly very well. The super long facing requires a lot of mouthpiece in your mouth but this is easier to do as the mouthpiece itself feels smaller/narrower.
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Author: donald
Date: 2018-11-03 13:46
As I stated above, use of the M30D has resulted in using barrels 1mm shorter than previously. I recently spoke with an Australian colleague who also owns several M30Ds, and he mentioned that on one of them he simply sanded the last 1mm off the tenon. As the mouthpiece had a small gap at the top of the barrel ring (as does mine with most barrels- it is the TENON that is too long after all) this had the same effect as playing with a shorter barrel.
I considered doing the same, but have one super nice 65mm barrel that works really well with the M30D on my B flat clarinet.
That player, btw uses Legere Euro signature with his M30D, I've never been comfortable with that reed, and use Legere Sop sax signature... we're all just a bit different eh?
dn
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