 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-06-05 13:04
Why do some players feel the need to squeeze the crap out of their clarinets whilst playing if they have trouble playing an upper register B or C at pp? Squeezing the keywork down in a vice like grip isn't going to achieve anything and will cause more harm in the long run.
I watched a player squeeze the LH F/C lever so hard the linkage locked up and held the RH F/C key down - partly down to the poor geometry of that linkage on Buffets, but mainly down t excessive force.
No-one should have to resort to using heavy finger pressure as that's counter productive to everything. If you can't play at pp levels with light to moderate finger pressure, using excessive pressure isn't going to help and will only cause more tension overall.
I set up pads so they will close under light finger pressure, so there shouldn't ever be the need to force things closed. I'm also concerned that if I overhaul a clarinet for a heavy-handed player, things are going to turn bad in a short time.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2018-06-05 15:28
Probably, earlier in their clarinet life they had clarinets that leaked and that was the only way to get them to play. I have very light fingers when playing and remember being in a small town repair shop when the owner proudly handed me the clarinet he had just completed. The only note I could get on his masterpiece was an open 'G'.
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2018-06-06 19:48
I agree with Ken, with additional thoughts.
Yes, I think that leaky rental/first clarinets certainly are responsible for some of the "white knuckles" phenomenon.
Also, assuming most of us started playing in elementary school, we had small hands and small, weak fingers trying to cover holes and depress keys, while learning multiple new skills simultaneously. This doesn't encourage relaxed fingers!
If the habit doesn't get caught and corrected early, it becomes ingrained. And a hard habit to break (along with biting the reed to get the clarinet to make a sound--I was guilty of both!). I was initially taught by the "elementary school band man", who was not a woodwind player. Unfortunately, it was many years before a teacher informed me that these habits were detrimental to my playing.
Steve
Amateur musician, retired physician
Delaware Valley Wind Symphony, clarinet 1
Bucks County Symphony Orchestra, clarinet 2 (sub)
Post Edited (2018-06-06 19:49)
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2018-06-06 20:24
I studied with B. Portnoy back in the late 50's (just as he was developing his mouthpiece) and for light, non popping fingers, and if you are an advanced player trying to lightening the fingers, he taught;
Starting with low 'C',
Move the right index ever so slowly, closer and closer to the Bb fingering until you hear the pitch changing and maybe a hiss.
Hover it there for a moment, then continue slowly until the Bb sounds, not slapping it down. It is not as easy as you might think!
Do the same down the 'F' scale.
Become proficient with this, then do the same for the left hand.
And do the same raising the fingers.
Eventually be able to play the chromatic scale, and all scales, and any piece of music this way.
If notes don't play this way, some pads are leaking. Also, I adjust my springs (with my mother's old crochet needle) as soft as they be can while still doing their job. 1st time I did this to the low Ab key, playing G blew the Ab key open for instance.
He mentioned that if you can't do this, your fingers don't really know where the clarinet is.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2018-06-06 20:48
Ken Lagace wrote:
> Move the right index ever so slowly, closer and closer to the
> Bb fingering until you hear the pitch changing and maybe a
> hiss.
> Hover it there for a moment, then continue slowly until the Bb
> sounds, not slapping it down. It is not as easy as you might
> think!
> Do the same down the 'F' scale.
> Become proficient with this, then do the same for the left
> hand.
> And do the same raising the fingers.
> Eventually be able to play the chromatic scale, and all scales,
> and any piece of music this way.
Ken, unless I'm misunderstanding your description, there's a huge step that you don't describe between doing this slowly as a starting exercise and doing it at playing speed in real-time playing. Is the process just to do this with increasing speed for each finger as it travels to or from the hole? At some point, that area where, hovering, "you hear the pitch changing and maybe a hiss" and then continue **slowly** to the hole, has to become faster and disappear.
Can you describe the learning routine that you have your students follow (or that you followed when studying with Portnoy) to get from slow with a hissy transition to the light finger motion that makes fast passages smoother and less tension-laden?
Karl
Karl
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2018-06-06 21:16
Thanks for the opportunity to continue.
When these steps can be done, there will be a light feel to how you move your fingers.
Continue the process, speeding up while keeping the feel of a gentle touch for each finger. Eventually getting to 16ths at 120, you will have an ingrained light touch.
Another exercise is to move the fingers gently to the thumb the same way where the finger may feel the thumb but the thumb doesn't feel the finger as strongly. At least that is how my fingers and thumb work.
All this worked for me and when I was young. Back then I had many, many bad habits to break. Have any more problems? I may have had to fix them long ago!
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2018-06-07 05:18
Along with the 'white knuckle' players are the 'banging down the fingers' players. I suppose there'd be a reason for doing that. For a 'special effect' perhaps ?
Skyfacer
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-06-07 16:40
Barry Vincent wrote:
"Along with the 'white knuckle' players are the 'banging down the fingers' players."
I recently fully overhauled an RC Prestige for a former Royal Marines clarinettist. While the instrument was now mechanically silent compared to sounding like a typewriter as it once did, he complained the C#/G# key was too noisy when he used it (eg. hammered it down) and requested I changed the silencing material (I used thin rubco/tech cork) for 'that green felt' - I assume he meant billiard cloth, but I'd use Ultrasuede if I was going to replace it with something thin. But I think he's learnt to live with it as it is as I haven't heard anything since. With closed-standing keys, you're merely opening them and have no reason to use excessive force to do that.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: windplr
Date: 2018-06-08 23:37
I've noticed for myself that the tendency to press too much on the keys directly correlates both faster tempos, and especially to the volume of the music being played. I really need to remind myself to play with a light touch and feel, especially when playing at forte and up.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2018-06-10 17:53
I think I have this tendency, greatly. One of my teachers said I had a "death grip" on the clarinet. This spreads or mashes/flattens the pads of the fingers, and on the RH can increase the possible contact with the sliver key, causing squawks and such.
When I relax and calm down, my technique improves.
Nice and easy does it, every time. (An old Frank Sinatra tune)
You shouldn't squeeze your reed or your instrument ... relax and have some fun, if your can ...
I should follow my own advise.
Tom
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Author: kdk
Date: 2018-06-10 18:48
TomS wrote:
> I think I have this tendency, greatly. One of my teachers said
> I had a "death grip" on the clarinet. This spreads or
> mashes/flattens the pads of the fingers, and on the RH can
> increase the possible contact with the sliver key, causing
> squawks and such.
>
For a lot of my students it also flattens the fingers themselves at the knuckles, causing the joints to lock into an extended or hyperextended position, slowing technique and causing the fingers to land sometimes inaccurately, not covering the holes completely.
Karl
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2018-06-10 19:05
I will say there's something just inherently natural about matching the intensity of the music to the intensity of the force used. If I'm playing 'angry' music or 'furious' lines, it's hard to stay relaxed throughout. The emotion gets to you and affects your mood and playing. I think it's the same reason why fast sixteenths tend to rush ahead of the beat and slow whole/half note playing tends to drag behind the beat.
For new players, especially during lessons, everything is hard. Everything is difficult which adds stress and therefore probably gets reflected in their grip.
I love to play relaxed. My goal is to play everything relaxed. But a while back I determined that it's the "goal", and it takes a high level of familiarity with what you're playing in order to be playing and play relaxed.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2018-06-11 05:10
I've played on some pretty busted up clarinets (I own 9, but have two in perfect condition). I have always used a bit more finger pressure than the norm. Well, at least the last 45 years since college, when my H.S. private teacher noticed that I was playing a bit "hard" (we were performing together).
Perhaps this may have contributed to problems eventually incapacitating some of my clarinets (A,Eb,C, and several makes of Bb), but maybe not. I have spent basically no money on any of these since 1975. As well, my "good" 1999 Buffet R13 has lost one pad (last year) in 19 years. No repair work at all needed. I use this one playing professionally.
I wouldn't at all say I squeeze or play hard knuckle, but I would guess there is room for a little variance in finger pressure.
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2018-06-11 08:28
Interesting exercise, Ken. It's always great to find a useful way of working with/thinking about the clarinet that's new to me. Thank you.
I found this exercise surprisingly tricky with the left hand first finger. It really has to be close before the buzzing starts. I have a student or two who may benefit from this. Looking forward to trying it out with them.
C to Bb seems like a strange interval to start with as it is complicated by also having a ring to lower. It seems like a Bb to A might be better. Am I missing something?
Anders
Post Edited (2018-06-11 09:07)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-06-13 01:28
Operating ring keys shouldn't be at the forefront of your consciousness - they're only there to operate a pad cup out of reach or control a vent by simply lowering or raising a finger naturally and not having to force them down.
If you feel you're having to physically operate the ring keys just as you operate other keys every time, then something needs addressing which is a number of things - spring tension, pad seating, regulation with other keys or their heights in how they sit in relation to the tonehole chimneys (as opposed to the venting of the ring key pad).
I see a lot of Buffets with the incorrect thickness pads used as Buffet pads being thin aren't easy to source, so that can lead to the ring keys sitting far too high above the chimneys when the ring key pads are closed. Some repairers completely overlook that factor and the thick pad is likely to leak at the front, so that can cause players to force the ring keys closed during playing.
Another danger is if the ring keys are sitting too high when the ring key pad is closed, the fingertips may not be able to fully close the toneholes and the resulting squeaks will further lead to frustration and even more tension in the hands and fingers.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2018-06-13 09:01
Chris - It's only an issue for this exercise, and not a major one. My instrument is well adjusted. When you are focused on minutia, things that don't usually matter sometimes suddenly do. It was an observation based on experience with this specific exercise.
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