 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: chamberguy
Date: 2018-05-20 21:12
If I have a Buffet b-flat with a Moennig barrel, what differences would I expect if I had the highest grade of Backun barrel?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2018-05-20 21:28
The tone quality would change, at least to your own ears. Whether or not anyone more than five feet away from you would notice is less predictable.
Karl
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2018-05-20 22:20
While tone color change is subtle, intonation change can be massive, as with different mouthpieces. Resistance can also change.
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2018-05-21 00:30
To add to Johan's comment, if your clarinet has any of the problems below, you should find a barrel with the suggested differences.
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Lower register flat and left hand upper notes sharp?
Barrel bore too large.
Sharp in the upper part of the second register and the lower altissimo notes?
Barrel bore too large.
Altissimo notes flat?
Barrel bore needs to be cylindrical or mouthpiece bore too large.
Altissimo sharp and the throat tones flat?
Barrel bore needs to be conical, (smaller toward the bell).
Flat in the upper part of the second register and the lower altissimo notes?
Barrel bore too small.Twelfths near the mouthpiece too wide?
Barrel bore needs to be conical, (smaller toward the bell).
Altissimo is sharp and the twelfths near the mouthpiece are too large?
A conical barrel bore will help.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2018-05-21 03:37
This is great information from Ken Lagace.
I'd like to know actually what bores/tapers that Backun uses. Seems to be a secret with most barrel makers, as well.
I just purchased an almost new Backun Alpha. It is in such good condition that we had to check serial numbers to be sure they weren't selling a new one for $499. Apparently, a salesman demo or leased for a while by an adult and hardly played.
In any case, the Alpha's playing characteristics are not reminiscent of my last experience, but I also tried a new instrument, and they are the same ... I was very surprised at it's higher resistance, compactness and warm timbre. It has much more resistance than my R13/Yamaha 650/Libertas, which just gob-smacks me. And, tuning is pretty good, but I performed a few bumper cork adjustments and improved it a bit. A few stuffy notes probably are not correctable, as they would alter the tuning for the worse. In addition, I've gone to a B45 (I never thought I'd admit to that!), just to free up the sound a bit ... and this combo sounds and feels much better in an ensemble than at home ... and is a lot lighter (also has a loop for a neck strap) than my R13/greenline.
But now the question is, looking a general tuning trends, what barrel, and made by whom, should I start with, just to get in the ballpark, and not spend months experimenting with a zillion barrels? The B45 is a standard bore/beak and therefore plays a bit sharp, so a longer barrel is also called for.
Where do you start? It's science, not magic, although many variables are hard to measure. Without more information, it's a crap shoot ...
Tom
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2018-05-21 05:14
If you mean getting a barrel for the Alpha, any Backun that they suggest would be best for tuning on their instruments.
The different barrel styles would be for the sound you are looking for. Backun's customer service would suggest the barrel to match your sound preference.
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2018-05-21 05:32
Ken...brilliant correlation list. Thanks.
Chamber, you might look at Brad Behn’s hourglass barrel. It certainly uses science to gain harmonics and effect quality and intonation.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2018-05-22 04:56
Attachment: Barrel_Tapers.JPG (107k)
Barrels can be quite different shape. I have not found that much difference in tone, but they can dramatically affect intonation.
Just for reference, attached is a chart that I made some time ago of barrel measurements that I have collected. Note there are two Backun barrels...a MoBa and an Alpha.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2018-05-22 09:29
I'd suggest looking at other barrels, not just Backun. In fact they are on MY low end list of barrels to pick from. Guy Chadash has an assortment of fine barrels. Some are adjustable tuning and the sound quality is very nice. There are others as well. I haven't tested any, but Robert Scott in Michigan seems to have some decent barrels.
There is a person that posts here that makes 3D barrels. Each year they get better and better. Hopefully he will pop in and say hello. I've tested his and they may solve your problems. Also Buffet has horrible bells, so ask him about bells as well. Ryan.
To pick out a barrel you want the horn to tune better, the sound to be warmer and the horn to play free. So when you do find the right barrel sometimes a mouthpiece change is needed and the horn has to be tuned. Backun's in general dull the sound. Depending on the model.
Mouthpieces today are kind of made wrong in general. The bores are too small and often the lengths of the mouthpieces are too long. In some cases we have the Vandoren M series which is too long and the bore is too big. So the R13 bore doesn't match the mouthpiece and the horn has tuning issues. No barrel will fix this.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: TomS
Date: 2018-05-26 19:04
The chart of barrel measurements is interesting ... I'd like to see 5-10 of each one plotted to see if the bore specs are fairly consistent.
The radical reverse taper of the Alpha barrel explains some of my general tuning anomalies. I need something with about the same average bore, but less taper.
I think that Backun has stopped using reamers to define the bores of his instruments. Claims that the reamer wear is a factor and the blades have to be constantly sharpened or replaced to assure consistency. For a reamer with linear blades, you'd ideally have to incrementally shove more of the reamer inside the instrument each time to compensate for the wear. This would make complex tapers, such as an hourglass or a taper that is curved difficult.
Tom
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Author: gatto
Date: 2018-05-26 19:33
I would like to recommend the Aidoni barrels. http://www.aidonimusic.com/
I am very happy with the Aidoni grenadilla barrel. Quite less resistant, good and stable intonation, warm, woody sound.
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2018-05-27 18:37
I would recommend the barrels of Allan Segal, who is on this Bboard:
http://www.clarinetconcepts.com
He made barrels for my Forte (Amati) C clarinet which greatly improved the instrument. He also made three excellent barrels for my Yamaha CSGII clarinets.
Simon
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