 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Speculator Sam
Date: 2018-04-04 07:19
Hello again. Asking what is probably a stupid simple question on these forums, but I don't know any better and have yet to find a teacher in my vicinity. So, in the previoius "Help My Mother Out...: post I made a while back. Ursa and Ray Zhang mentioned a few brands. Vandoren, Behn, Fobes, Grabner, Pyne, D'addario, and Selmer to be exact.
It's dim-witted to say "Well, Michael Lowernstern and Phillipe Cuper plays Vandoren and I like their tone so I should play a B50 or another one of their mouthpieces". They've been playing for decades, anyone would sound great on any equipment who's played that long. I've played guitar for a long time and know that this is the same as saying "Well, Jimmy Page plays a Gibson Les Paul, so I should totally buy that instrument" without ever trying the instrument and seeing if it feels good in my hands and if it gives the tone I'm looking for.
The other concern to buying an after-market mouthpiece that's "ideal for the student or musician on a budget"; if I were that hard-pressed for cash then maybe buying a mouthpiece should be placed lower on my priority list in life, we want something better than what came with the $2k-ish bass clarinet that I'm accustomed to.
If it means anything, whenever I send my bass clarinet in for repairs the rental company lends me a loaner soprano clarinet. It's an Evette, so a more entry level instrument. It's fitted with a Selmer USA after-market mouthpiece. I feel very comfortable playing that mouthpiece and it seems the tone possible on the instrument vastly improves every-time I have to borrow that soprano clarinet, perhaps coming back to it after every three months has something to do with that. I can't say the same for the bass clarinet, the stock Selmer piece feels very fine, but not feeling that "love at first sight" feeling that I have with the loaner clarinet's piece.
I could definitely afford a hundreds dollar mouthpiece, but I don't have the patience to send someone my money and have to return it because I don't like it and hope to God that the money gets back on my card fine and dandy. I could definitely ask if my music store wouldn't mind ordering a sampler set from Vandoren and be able to try mouthpieces that way.
Any insight would be very helpful. Please, and thank you.
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2018-04-04 09:22
Welcome to the club! Most serious clarinetists have their cupboards filled with rejected mouthpieces. First you fall in love with the mouthpiece, then you get used to it, then bored and after that you go for a new one. Luckily clarinet mouthpieces are relatively cheap... Don't trust anyone, who says that a certain maker or a model is definitely the best. The only ones worth listening to are the ones, that can state some believable data on, how certain measurements and qualities may effect your playing and in which direction.
By the way, it's unbelievable how, no matter what change they make, most players end in the long run sound their old themselves.
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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Author: Speculator Sam
Date: 2018-04-04 10:12
Not sure what exactly you meant by "most players end in the long run sound their old themselves". That's besides the point. Tips from Principal Clarinet in from a Finnish Phil. is definitely worth noting anyhow. Thanks a bunch Jarmo. Essentially, I take it it's an endless quest for the smallest things that only veterans can really tell the differences in...
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2018-04-04 10:38
I don't believe there is a mouthpiece that can work for everyone. Just because you like the tone produced by Vandoren artists like Michael Lowenstern, it doesn't mean you'll get his sound by playing on his mouthpiece model, or even his mouthpiece. I think we should all develop our own sound. Hear the sound of what you want to sound like in your head, and work hard to achieve that sound through mostly practice. Mouthpieces and other accessories will definitely help, but nothing beats practice.
You don't have to play on Vandorens if they don't suit you. Whatever mouthpieces makes you sound the best is the mouthpiece you should play on.
-- Ray Zhang
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2018-04-04 10:39
Sam, I suppose you are a student. I don't know your level, but being a pupil to me and if you are in the classical field, I would recommend you to stay quite long with any standard, main stream mouthpiece that is working for you and not causing any particular problem. Only when you are at the level of working on the great concertos (Mozart, Weber, etc), I would suggest that you could try out a few other of the most popular mouthpieces and see if they give you any kind of improvement.
However, if you are an experimental person, I wouldn't hinder you at an earlier stage, but still I would think that your time and effort should be directed more to practicing than the equipment.
Whenever you start comparing mouthpieces (or any equipment, for that matter), your focus should be on what's working for you - not on what works for other people, or other peoples choices. You may listen to any recommendations and give them a try, but the final decision should be yours (perhaps together with your teacher, if you are still getting lessons).
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2018-04-04 11:15
When starting out, I'd focus on finding something that you won't have to fight, i.e. something free of design/manufacturing defects and probably on the more conservative side in terms of design.
It's probably not your only option, but the Fobes Debut mouthpiece would fit the bill, I'd say. It's an acrylic mouthpiece, but, unlike most similar mouthpieces, is hand-finished in Clark's workshop in San Francisco. Clark designed the mouthpiece and it uses a facing that he also uses on his high-end products (which are amongst the best available). Clark's a low-clarinet specialist and really knows what he is doing. These are available on WWBW for $50 and I don't know what else out there is even close for the price. The Ridenour Encore, I guess. I don't know much about it, but I hear good things.
When I was teaching, I put a couple of students on those and I think it was a good move for both of them. They both had one fewer impediment to developing clear, strong tones and personal sounds and both felt a lot better about playing on the mouthpieces. I got to play one of those and I was impressed. I was playing one of Clark's professional models with a similar facing at that time and, while there was a difference between them, I could probably have played a concert on the Debut without anyone else noticing except maybe my teacher.
You can go deeper down the mouthpiece rabbit hole later. The B50 is a great mouthpiece that I love, but I think I might have struggled to pick up fundamentals like intonation and air support on that mouthpiece if I'd started on it. Not to say it couldn't happen, just that I'm glad I arrived at that mouthpiece with a well developed air stream, embouchure and sound concept.
Vandoren, Selmer, Behn, Fobes, Grabner, Pyne, Borbeck, Backun, etc. all make fantastic cost-no-object mouthpieces and I bet that if you played a bunch, you'd find that they did, indeed, play better than what you've got. I think what you'll also find, though, is that as you learn the instrument, your preferences will develop and change at a rapid rate and the odds of wanting something different in the not-too-distant future are pretty high.
When I recommend that Fobes, it's not because I think it's the best mouthpiece, period, or that it will be perfect for everyone, forever. I just know it's dependably high-quality and won't hold you back or force you to learn weird habits to compensate for its design or manufacturing deficiencies. It also won't put you too far in the hole if you decide that you want to try other things later. Once you've developed your skills, you'll have a solid "neutral ground" from which to evaluate higher-end mouthpieces. Or it might be perfect for you, forever. Who knows?
For the record, I play a Fobes 10K in an SV facing (similar to the B50) and I love it. But, as you know from the guitar world, equipment is a very personal choice and what works for me might not work for you.
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2018-04-04 15:35
I'd like to add that a mouthpiece and a reed have to match. It really is a marriage. Some work together and some don't. There is a curve on the mouthpiece facing and a curve on the reed cut and they have to work together. Every reed/brand/series etc. has a slightly different cut. I know, I have measurements for thirty of them.
One approach to finding a good mouthpiece is to find a reed brand that produces a well made reed that is consistently cut and has good cane, and then find a mouthpiece that works well with that reed. The only reeds I play on are the Behn Arias and the Steuers, Classic and/or Exclusive. Vandoren has fairly good cuts but the cane is not as good as the others mentioned. There are many threads on this site that explain in more detail.
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2018-04-04 18:22
Wanting a new mouthpiece but not having the patience to try new mouthpieces is a challenging combination.
I only tried one Debut that I purchased. So it is not fair to generalize on how they typically are based on one try. The teachers that recommend them have experience with good results for several of their students.
My experience was that the Debut did not have a good facing on it. It was crooked and had a odd shape that was not responsive. A Fobes Nova that I have has a much better facing on it. I actually prefer the straight side wall design of the Debut to the “A” sidewall shape of the Nova. It has a brighter sound with more projection. It works better with Legere reeds I like which are a little darker than cane IMO. So I copied the Nova (CF?) facing curve over to the Debut and it is currently my primary mouthpiece.
The one Ridenhour Encore I have also has issues.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: Sue B
Date: 2018-04-04 18:33
I'm so glad I stumbled upon this website today. My daughter is in her second year of clarinet and has progressed quickly, and loves to play more than I had imaged she would. She is entering high school next year and we recently began shopping for an intermediate clarinet for her. She tried a few and fell in love with a Backun Beta. I know very little about instruments, and didn't even realize she would need to "upgrade" so soon. Some of our clarinetist friends never heard of Backun (including a private teacher!), so initially found this board when i was looking for reviews on the Beta. I read wonderful things about Backun and I'm happy with her choice. Anyhow, she didn't like how the mouthpiece that comes with the Beta looks with the body of the clarinet. I then found this thread, and had no idea how much a mouthpiece matters! I know I sound like such a knucklehead right now but I love music and want the best for her... within financial reason of course!
I really like Max S-D's advice about the Fobes Debut mouthpiece. If anyone can add any other tips that a new clarinetist's mom should know as we move on in this journey, please share!
Sue,
Mom of Cordelia, budding Clarinetist
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2018-04-04 20:24
It's unfortunate that affordable bass mouthpieces seems to be an oxymoron. As stated by others, keep in mind that clarinet mouthpieces are very inexpensive relative to parts for other instruments. The instruments, even bass, are dirt cheap comparatively. The top of the line Buffet/Selmer will run you about 13K, but I would hesitate to complain about that to a flute player... That said, none of that matters if you don't have the 13K!
As far as options for lower end priced bass clarinet mouthpieces, the options are indeed limited. The Fobes Debut is as cheap as you'd want to go and many players have had success in their younger years of playing on these mouthpieces. I would still order a few of them from a dealer to try, the finishing can be inconsistent (see Mojo's comment above).
I have a student that went from a stock Buffet mouthpiece with 3.5 blue box vandorens to a Fobes Debut with 3+ D'Addarios and the difference was night and day. Of course just about any stock plastic mouthpiece is not a high benchmark, and I would argue are basically unplayable.
Michael Lowenstern played a Selmer that was refaced by Matson for many years. The Vandoren B50 is a relatively recent switch. If you look up youtube videos of him playing from years past, it will most likely be the selmer. He also uses fairly light reeds, V12 2.5's, with the B50.
It's worth your while to take your bass and a fresh box of reeds to your local music store that has a stock of Vandoren/Selmer etc. mouthpieces and try them for yourself. If that is not an option, ordering a handful of different mouthpieces from an online distributor is worth it.
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