 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: anneh
Date: 2017-09-30 06:38
Financial considerations aside--
Best low C bass clarinet: Buffet Prestige, Buffet Tosca, Selmer Privilege OR OTHER.
Thank you!
Anne
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2017-09-30 06:43
The best one is the one you like. Try before you buy with something as expensive as a bass clarinet.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: SonicManEXE
Date: 2017-09-30 07:40
I agree. Try before you buy.
If you are looking for recommendations, however, I love the Privilege. I use my university's which is a little beat up, but it is what I imagine a bass clarinet feeling and sounding like. I love the sound of my Buffet Bb and I did choose it over Selmer and Yamaha horns, but in the bass world I prefer Selmer over Buffet. I have had the opportunity to try out many different instruments in the less than 10 years that I've been playing clarinet, and that is what I prefer. You may be very different.
Jared
Ft. Lauderdale & Tampa, FL
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Author: CEC
Date: 2017-09-30 07:52
Definitely try before you buy. The Selmer and the Buffets are both great. The only other brand I would try would be Uebel - while I've not played one, a few people I know and respect think they are very special instruments, indeed (and more affordable, but pretty hard to get ahold of). Some might bring up the Ridenour and Kessler basses as viable alternatives. They are not.
The Selmer and the Buffet basses have very different playing characteristics, so it's pretty important to give both brands a go (and an Uebel, as well, if you can get your hands on one).
Chris
Post Edited (2017-09-30 07:56)
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Author: anneh
Date: 2017-09-30 08:02
Well...of course I didn't think I needed to say I would try out before purchase! Just want some opinions before I go chasing horns down.
Anyone have anything constructive to say about the differences in these instruments.
Anne
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2017-09-30 09:05
I only tried one Tosca and not for a long time, but can't remember liking it any better than the 1193. Definitely worth trying.
As far as which is "best"... there isn't one. Some differences between the Buffet and Selmer:
Different neck register vents creating a different compromise in the response (I modified mine).
Overall tone and response slightly different, again different approaches. I have my own words to describe the differences but better not getting into those "metaphors".
Buffet has a key behind the bottom back, making the peg at an angle, if you need a very long peg (e.g. to play standing with it) the Buffet would have more flex in the peg from a larger lever).
Keys are objectively mostly better designed on the Buffet. The Selmer does have relatively good design for the important long low keys, pretty much the same as the Buffet. The difference is in linkages such the register mechanism, the bridge, the G/D to register, etc.
I've seen many issues with both models from new, but Selmer a little more significant e.g. alignment of some keys with tone holes.
Selmer (I think still) offers two possible neck angles, both feel different to the one Buffet offers (the steeper angle feels more similar to Buffet but it's also closer to the instrument).
The instruments feel different in your hands as far as the shapes and positions of the keys, you'd have to check yourself if one is preferable.
The Buffet has a corked tenon for the neck parts and the Selmer uses a metal tenon with locking screw.
These are the differences I can remember at the top of my head right now.
All of this pales in comparison to how the instruments play and feel to you when you try them. They cost so much that it's very common for players to fly abroad to try them.
Post Edited (2017-09-30 14:57)
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Author: Toolaholic
Date: 2017-09-30 14:48
The buffet has a bigger bore than the selmer which gives it a bigger sounding low end. The selmer’s smaller bore vibes it a more focused sound than the Buffet. The selmer has a metal mid joint receiver . The buffet does not. The selmer neck adjustment is all metal. The buffet neck adjustment has cork. I play a Yamaha 622 II. I like it. Very easy to play over octave beak and into altissimo. But it tends to play on sharp side requiring neck to be pulled out far and the low D,C#And Low are not set up well. It’s playable but selmer and buffet have much better designed lowD,C#And C keys.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2017-09-30 15:35
I bought a Buffet Prestige earlier this year and can highly recommmend it. It’s a great instrument if you doubling between clarinet a lot.
I’m not sure about the comment above about the Buffet having cork on the neck. It does on the tenon but nowhere else.
I choose the Buffet because that was the instrument i had be borrowing so was use to it etc. But certainly try as many before you buy with differing mouthpieces etc.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2017-09-30 15:54
>> I’m not sure about the comment above about the Buffet having cork on the neck. It does on the tenon but nowhere else. <<
Maybe they changed it? Have you completely taken apart the two halves of the neck? Buffet bass clarinets model 1993 from when they started making the current version (around late 90s) including new ones I saw about a year ago, have always had a corked tenon there (I've seen dozens of them).
If yours doesn't, does it have a locking screw? What else prevents them from moving (rotating)? Maybe you never pulled them out enough to see the cork?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-09-30 16:41
My Prestige from 2000 has a corked tuning slide on the crook. Maybe they've done away with that as it's a good metal-on-metal fit.
I only bought the Buffet as I borrowed one for a week to do a show and liked the keywork which is nicely balanced and especially the front low D key which is light as a feather compared to the previous model Selmer which has a short touchpiece and far more complex keywork than it needs which only adds more friction and weight to the action. Buffet keep it simple and that was a world apart from their previous Prestige model (pre 1999) which was like something from the dark ages keywork-wise.
I'd definitely add the Uebel Emperior bass to the list of pro level low C basses and the price has since dropped placing it between the Yamaha and Buffet Prestige again (it's a mere £10 more than the Yamaha). It's a very strong contender in this race:
http://www.uebel-klarinetten.de/english/clarinet-Bass-Emperior.html
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2017-09-30 17:24
I took a HUGE leap of faith when I was in the market to buy a bass. Without spending a fortune in travel expenses to test the various brands, I was lucky enough to find a Uebel Emperior and snagged it sight unseen.
Here's an excerpt from Josh Johnson's blog about the 2014 Clarinetfest which helped sell me on a Uebel: "I finally tore myself away from the Superior and focused my attention on the Emperior bass. Now, I know what you're thinking...yes, it does indeed bear an uncanny and downright remarkable resemblance to the Buffet 1193 Prestige bass, and I can't argue with that. The keywork is, well, I won't say identical, but I won't argue with you if you say it.
However, two notes was all it took for me to assure you that it is NOT a copy of the Buffet. Uebel has taken the same wizardry they used on the soprano clarinets and applied it to the bore design of the bass. It plays with one of the most vocal sound qualities I've ever heard on a bass clarinet, and while the response all over the horn is excellent, the upper clarion is particularly beautiful and effortless. Haunting, even. The instrument was a fabulous match with my Ridenour Artist mouthpiece, and handled as nimbly in the basement as it did in the stratosphere. Written C7 was no problem on this beast. Victoria and I took it out into a stairwell away from the noise of the exhibition hall so I could really hear what I sounded like on it; I almost wish we hadn't. I have not been able to stop thinking about it since I left Baton Rouge. It was like an extension of my own voice, and it was very, very difficult to stop playing it."
If you can find one, definitely try one out!
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Author: Wes
Date: 2017-09-30 23:40
It can be so difficult to "try before buy" as commonly said. I've bought two bass clarinets, one a recent Buffet Prestige, without trying, because of very low costs. Both are wonderful.
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Author: Jordan Selburn
Date: 2017-10-02 07:36
I have an 1193, which I've played for a bit over a decade. In general, it's a fabulous horn, with one exception. The clarion E-G range (roughly) doesn't respond quite as well, and feels a bit stuffy. It's harder to get the instrument to speak on those notes. I had the opportunity to play a Tosca for a couple of months, and feel that it is slightly better in that range, but not perfect; intonation is a bit better as well. If I was buying new, I'd probably opt for the Tosca over the 1193, but that preference isn't great enough to get me to trade up.
I've also had the chance to play on the Privilege, albeit briefly. It's also a wonderful instrument, with some advantages (and disadvantages) vs. the 1193 but again, not a striking enough improvement to get me to trade up . . . at least for now.
Jordan
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2017-10-02 08:21
>> In general, it's a fabulous horn, with one exception. The clarion E-G range (roughly) doesn't respond quite as well, and feels a bit stuffy. <<
Pretty much all bass clarinets are slightly more resistant in the F to A range (approximately, exact range varies).
The problem on the Buffet that start from E is especially more pronounced when playing legato from lower notes (e.g. low A to clarion E) and louder.
You can read about it and a solution on on my website here: https://www.clarnitai.com/buffetbassregvent
You can use Google Translate since it's not in English.
Or maybe all the info is also in this thread (not sure): http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=20&i=839&t=839
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2017-10-04 18:58
Tucker: How is your Emperior responding in the clarion e-g range - as when playing accentuated tones in fortissimo? Any tendency to squeak?
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2017-10-04 21:36
Hi Micke, I have no issues in that range at all. My only "issue" was clarion D and Eb seemed to be a challenge at times with large intervals-- open G to Eb, for example. (2 other bass players tried it out and didn't feel this like I did). This seemed to be exacerbated or alleviated depending on the mouthpiece. I got a Fobes 10K recently which has almost eliminated the issue. My only other "gripe" is the left pinkie key cluster is pretty tight. Took awhile to fine tune that pinkie Overall I'm thrilled with the horn.
Post Edited (2017-10-04 21:40)
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Author: anneh
Date: 2017-10-09 09:11
I have received a Buffet Green Line Prestige on trial from Lisa's Clarinet Shop.
The horn may need some adjusting--but I am literally in pain trying to play the right hand thumb key notes--I can't seem to find a comfortable thumb position to be able to access the keys in a smooth manner. Anyone have any insight in to this issue?
The instrument has a beautiful tone as expected--I need to fuss with some reeds to truly explore the range of the instrument but I am able to play in the clarion and altissimo registers as easily as on a soprano clarinet.
Thanks everyone for your expert comments.
Anne
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2017-10-09 15:13
Anne,
There is a great piece of advice on reed strength on Walter Grabner's website. I found these words to be most helpful.
"Resist the temptation to play on too soft of a reed. With a soft reed you can get a big sound in the low register, but sacrifice control in the clarion and above. If you use a 3 1/2 reed on the soprano clarinet, use a 3/12 on the bass. I currently use, and recommend Grand Concert #4 reeds."
I use a very open mouthpiece, the Grabner CX_BB_90 or the Garrett MO so use anywhere from a VD or Grand Concert 2 1/2 to 3. Softer with a Legere' and the clarion range speaks very well.
HRL
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2017-10-10 17:16
So you gave in to temptation and have good results.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: ben1948
Date: 2017-10-10 23:30
Can anyone comment on the Ridenour Lyrique bass clarinet?
Ben Withers - began clarinet 2014 at age 66
benjamin.f.withers@gmail.com
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Author: anneh
Date: 2017-10-11 00:16
I've read varying reports on the Ridenour--but what turned me away were the reports that the key metal is soft and it goes out of adjustment too easily.
Anne
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2017-10-11 03:36
Anne,
The report of Ridenour basses having soft metal keys is very old news. I have owned two Ridenour basses over the last several years and have never had a problem with the instrument going out of adjustment. Also, the instruments played very well; the intonation was superb. I now play a Selmer Privilege Low Eb bass.
Check out his review by Michael Lowenstern. This should put your mind at ease.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uTrbNPagqk
HRL
PS I have no business association with Tom Ridenour.
Post Edited (2017-10-11 04:24)
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2017-10-11 05:12
I’m not sure how glowing a review is to have owned two “over the last several years,” only to then acknowledge now playing a different instrument.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2017-10-11 05:47
J.J.,
Actually, the Selmer Privilege was a retirement gift to me from my wife. She even arranged for us to go to the Conn-Selmer factory in Elkhart to pick it out. I'm a lucky man (to have such a thoughtful and clever mate).
HRL
PS Please see my private email to you.
Post Edited (2017-10-11 15:09)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2017-10-11 08:14
Re the difficult right thumb keys: It could be an adjustment problem, but even on the Buffet, which possibly has the best design for this area, there's still flex from the long hinges and it's not going to work like any soprano clarinet. You need more force to close five large keys with one finger.
The main thing is to adjust it as close as possible so you can play any note by using only its respective key, but also be able to add a lower key without a spongy feel. These two goals are countering each other because of the flex in the hinges.
If they just feel big and hard to maneuver around them, then the buffet has the largest and most beefy right thumb keys, but I haven't found a player who thought this was a problem yet. The Selmer has an overall slightly "smaller" feel.
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Author: thereallukasj
Date: 2017-10-12 08:20
I got a chance to play a rather uncommon rosewood Selmer Privilege and it was very free blowing with an unmatchable sound. My vote goes to the Privilege over Prestige. Have not tried the Tosca however. The Yamaha 622ii is very nice but is more "stuffy" or constricting than the other two, but still a great sounding, consistent horn.
Hope this helps,
Lukas Johnson
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Author: Toolaholic
Date: 2017-10-13 00:20
Lukas, I found that my Fobes blue 10k RR opened the sound up on my 622 II a little bit. My 221 II has a bigger sound down low. But I love the sound and even Reponse of my 622 II.
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Author: thereallukasj
Date: 2017-10-13 00:41
The response of the Yamaha is one of many advantages I see in it and it has a very pure sound. I want to try the 10k quite badly but the Nova played quite nice for me... A different neck would also change the feel (however quite expensive for most aftermarket necks).
Hope this helps,
Lukas Johnson
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Author: Toolaholic
Date: 2017-10-13 03:09
I love my nova but the 10k has better articulation and adds some crispness this the low notes.
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