 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Beable
Date: 2017-09-20 19:58
My daughter is allowed to start band this year. When she brought home the papers, I demoed my old clarinet and flute for her. We played some youtube videos to see other instruments. She chose to try clarinet. I'm happy about that, but I want to make sure that she gets a good foundation while not pushing too hard. I'm also going to renew my playing: will start private lessons next week and joined a community band.
I'm interested in any thoughts on how I'm handling both sitations: me going back to playing and making sure that the kid gets a good start. My background is that while I was not an expert in high school (more than 20 years ago), I played in a lot of places and was functionally good at it. I was more of a musician, with clarinet being my primary instrument, than a clarinet player, if that makes sense. I am not very good now and likely need to replace my instrument.
We've rented her a beginner horn. Plays fine. If she retains interest, we'll buy a beginner instrument at some point.
I play on Mitchell Lurie 3's currently. Used to play on 4's, which I will work back to. Would starting her on 2's be appropriate? She was able to make sounds on my newish 3's, but I don't want to tire her out unnecessarily while she's getting started.
I don't think we'll be able to get her into lessons over the long term because she is already taking piano and has other after school stuff. But I'm worried about bad habits and not doing the basics correctly. I had to rework my embouchure when I went to my second teacher, and I'd rather she not have to do that. Do you think taking a small amount of private lessons would be worth it in the beginning? Or maybe after she's had the thing for a month? I will be able to help her, but I don't know how to teach fundamentals like embouchure, tonguing, etc. Worst case, I'll look up these things on youtube.
I got her the first Rubank book because that's what I learned on. Is this still a decently regarded book? I also have Foundation to Clarinet Playing by Reinecke, which is what I used after a couple years in.
I realize that I was kind of rambling, but any thoughts would be great. Thank you.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-09-20 21:43
There's a lot here. So, point by point:
Beable wrote:
> I'm interested in any thoughts on how I'm handling both
> situations: me going back to playing and making sure that the
> kid gets a good start.
This sounds great, as long as you and the teacher are on the same page regarding your purposes.
> We've rented her a beginner horn. Plays fine. If she retains
> interest, we'll buy a beginner instrument at some point.
>
Again, this sounds fine. I wouldn't wait too long to make an outright purchase. Once the introductory rental period ends, the rate typically goes up and, unless you buy the rental instrument at a decent discount, you can end up spending a lot more money the longer you rent.
> I play on Mitchell Lurie 3's currently. Used to play on 4's,
> which I will work back to. Would starting her on 2's be
> appropriate? She was able to make sounds on my newish 3's, but
> I don't want to tire her out unnecessarily while she's getting
> started.
>
I'd start her on #2-1/2. I've always found that #2s allow lazy habits to develop that don't become really apparent until you try to move the student into the clarion register. #3, if it doesn't make the tone hard to produce and control, is OK, but typically with most beginner setups it's a little stuffy with an undeveloped embouchure.
> I don't think we'll be able to get her into lessons over the
> long term because she is already taking piano and has other
> after school stuff. But I'm worried about bad habits and not
> doing the basics correctly. I had to rework my embouchure when
> I went to my second teacher, and I'd rather she not have to do
> that.
This sometimes reflects the teacher's prejudices rather than the student's real deficiencies. It's hard to know whether your experience was necessary or not.
> Do you think taking a small amount of private lessons
> would be worth it in the beginning? Or maybe after she's had
> the thing for a month? I will be able to help her, but I don't
> know how to teach fundamentals like embouchure, tonguing, etc.
> Worst case, I'll look up these things on youtube.
Sometimes the chemistry between parent and child turns adversarial as soon as parent tries to teach a complex skill like playing an instrument to child or even try to help. The distinction sometimes gets blurry, at least to the child. Maybe you could get your teacher to give her a lesson or two to get her started, then if she gets into any kind of frustrating problem, do the same thing. The goal being to prevent future problems or solve ongoing ones rather than to develop a continuing sequence of instruction. Ideally, the teacher would suggest technical ideas using whatever music she's already playing without assigning or trying to monitor separate practice material.
>
> I got her the first Rubank book because that's what I learned
> on. Is this still a decently regarded book?
Yes, but it isn't generally used in school programs because it requires "homogeneous" classes - all one instrument. The band methods that are generally used allow for mixed classes.
> I also have
> Foundation to Clarinet Playing by Reinecke, which is what I
> used after a couple years in.
>
I don't know that book. I wonder if it's still in print? I'll have to check for my own information.
Karl
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Author: Beable
Date: 2017-09-20 22:16
Thanks for your thoughts!
kdk wrote:
>
> Again, this sounds fine. I wouldn't wait too long to make an
> outright purchase. Once the introductory rental period ends,
> the rate typically goes up and, unless you buy the rental
> instrument at a decent discount, you can end up spending a lot
> more money the longer you rent.
Good thoughts, thank you. I actually am cautiously optimistic about the rental agreement. The way it works is that whatever we pay into the rental can be used to buy any clarinet they sell, not just the one she's currently renting. I agree though, that if she stays with it, we'll probably buy one after six months or so. Worst case, I use it.
>
> I'd start her on #2-1/2. I've always found that #2s allow lazy
> habits to develop that don't become really apparent until you
> try to move the student into the clarion register. #3, if it
> doesn't make the tone hard to produce and control, is OK, but
> typically with most beginner setups it's a little stuffy with
> an undeveloped embouchure.
Will do. I had bought her Rico 1.5's, but Rico 3's play just terribly for me (maybe my mouthpiece) in general. I think I will try Van Durens, since they seem to be universally recommended on the internet. But will start her on ML 2.5.
> This sometimes reflects the teacher's prejudices rather than
> the student's real deficiencies. It's hard to know whether your
> experience was necessary or not.
>
I could be wrong, but I think it was needed. I was scrunching my chin. Teacher was Bill Garton, who I learned a lot from. Looking back, I wish I took it more seriously than I did.
>
> Sometimes the chemistry between parent and child turns
> adversarial as soon as parent tries to teach a complex skill
> like playing an instrument to child or even try to help. The
> distinction sometimes gets blurry, at least to the child. Maybe
> you could get your teacher to give her a lesson or two to get
> her started, then if she gets into any kind of frustrating
> problem, do the same thing. The goal being to prevent future
> problems or solve ongoing ones rather than to develop a
> continuing sequence of instruction. Ideally, the teacher would
> suggest technical ideas using whatever music she's already
> playing without assigning or trying to monitor separate
> practice material.
Spot on. This is my worst fear. I think I ruined her interest in chess by being too excited about it. So, I have to temper help with not ruining it.
> I don't know that book. I wonder if it's still in print? I'll
> have to check for my own information.
>
Yeah, it was just what Mr. Garton had me using.
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2017-09-21 01:49
I was and am in your situation regarding your child. I got back into playing about 4 1/2 years ago and have come back up to where I was if not farther in that time. My son decided to start clarinet last year.
I did buy a used Yamaha for him (because I felt comfortable trying it out for him), but did the rental the previous year for violin, which I know less than nothing about. I figured he would have this instrument for marching band and get a better one if he stays with it.
Regarding reeds, I thought he could start with orange box Rico 2's, which we did, but because I was a Vandoren reed player, I also bought him a box of blue box 2's. We found the Vandorens, when they were good, produced a much nicer tone, even at a beginner level, but he was having trouble finding good ones. So I then decided to change his mouthpiece.
If I could recommend one thing for your daughter it would to spend the $35 on either the Fobes or Behn beginner mouthpieces. Both were recommended to me by multiple people on this board and we ended up going with the Behn. I can tell you it made an immediate difference. It came the day of his Spring concert and he noticed the improvement himself. Also, the Vandorens that were stuffy and hard to play were suddenly much more playable.
Other than that, I am acting as his "teacher" because I can't afford the lessons right now, although I know a great teacher and if he continues into middle and high school we will invest in lessons with her. I have been trying to walk that line of not pushing too hard, but making sure he practices enough to get better and uses good form when he does. I mostly "nag" him not to puff his cheeks, to tighten the corners of his mouth, sit up straight and breathe from his diaphragm. When he wants to move faster than his band teacher goes and learn something new, I help him.The only thing we have issues with is he doesn't like to learn the "boring" stuff from me, so I made him a deal that if he just starts with a few minutes of scales or exercises we will move on to Jurassic Park (his current favorite).
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Author: Beable
Date: 2017-11-09 19:28
Musikat wrote:
> If I could recommend one thing for your daughter it would to
> spend the $35 on either the Fobes or Behn beginner mouthpieces.
> Both were recommended to me by multiple people on this board
> and we ended up going with the Behn. I can tell you it made an
> immediate difference. It came the day of his Spring concert and
> he noticed the improvement himself. Also, the Vandorens that
> were stuffy and hard to play were suddenly much more playable.
>
Thanks for the suggestion on the beginner mouthpiece. We got the Fobes and her tone was instantly better.
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