 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Pacco
Date: 2017-07-30 14:45
I just bought a new RC Prestige. Because of distance in space and lack of time i couldn't try the instrument before buying it. I simply got it indirectly through a store (an authorized dealer), which ordered it from France, so i pretty much got it directly from Buffet Crampon. The problem is that the instrument is pretty much unplayable. I don't know who put it there, but there was a spring/elastic(with a buffet crampon logo) on the lower joint to keep a key down (the key on the left to play a B). That elastic keeps the three lower holes of the joint closed. The problem is that when you play the instrument one of those three holes doesn't completely close when you press the key down. It does only close if you put extra pressure on the key or if you also press the key on the right, but that makes it impossible to play. Other than that the instrument is very hard to put together, even with cork grease, but that may be because it is very hot here, almost 40 celsius.
Is some of this normal? What should i do?
Post Edited (2017-07-30 14:48)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mproper2009
Date: 2017-07-30 14:59
You need to go to repairmen who will adjust it to your needs. May be that elastic is for transportation purposes only.
But unfortunately this is quite common with Buffets, they need to be adjusted after purchase.
Hard to put together this is normal for new horn. My Yamaha CSG was also really hard, but not it is getting better, and I prefer tight joints, then loose ones.
WBR
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Pacco
Date: 2017-07-30 15:23
Thank you, i will look for a dedicated repair centre, hoping that guarantee applies( even if the nearest is 2/3 hours away...). How is this a problem for new Buffets?They claim that a professional tries every instrument, and then you get something unplayable?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-07-30 16:05
The first thing you can do and anyone else that buys a brand new Buffet that's supplied with that black plastic spring clamp thing is to bin it and forget about it completely.
That's the last thing you ever want to use on your clarinet unless you plan on deep pad seats and increasing the risk of the nylon pin in the LH E/B lever shearing off.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Pacco
Date: 2017-07-30 16:37
Why would they put that on the clarinet then?
Anyway what you mean is i should simply put that away and bring it to a repair centre? Or bin the clarinet? :(
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-07-30 17:02
Don't bin the wrong bit!
As your clarinet is new it should be covered by a warranty, so take it back to the company you bought it from to have them put things right. If they don't have the facilities to do so, then see if you can get authorisation to have it repaired under guarantee by a repairer of your choice and the cost should then be met by whoever supplied it to you.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2017-07-31 00:57
I charge $160.00 to set up new Buffet professional clarinets to artist specs and they play exceptional when I am finished.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: RLarm
Date: 2017-08-01 04:02
Another Buffet horror story. I have had my share of personal nightmares. Why can't they set up their horns so that they can play right out of the box like Yamaha? That's the multi-million dollar question. It's a real head scratcher. Maybe they need to hire away from Yamaha someone to take over their quality control department? How long are they content to rest on their laurels?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2017-08-03 10:00
First of all, I couldn't believe it was not joke that this clamp should stay on the instrument "at all times" when I googled for it. What a complete nonsense. Correct pad seating ist only achieved by an even and leak-free fit; you cannot substitute the necessary (though meticulous) work of fine-tuning the correct pad heights in relation to the others by pressing them down, in fact I'd call that dilettantism. The lower tone holes simply are a sensitive area
To add insult to the injury, Buffet uses hot glue (many professionals do!), which in my opinion is an excellent material to work with and a particularly easy height adjustment. Of course, they don't care too much at the Buffet factory.
The other problem you're having.... It's rather common for manufacturers to not sand down the tenon cork enough, however this might be harmful for your instrument to assemble it this way. I made this mistake when I got my new Buffet, shop told me it was "normal". Well, it's not. Especially if (dis)assembly requires you to apply force to the keywork, as in my case... *shrug*
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2017-08-03 10:35
Before installing tenon cork the joints need to be fitted properly. For example if you are fitting the barrel to the upper joint when you hold the upper joint you should be able to drop the barrel onto the joint using gravity and it should go on freely. If not you need to sand the outside of the tenon first and then the shoulder if needed until the proper fit is achieved.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-08-03 16:15
Clarineteer wrote:
> Before installing tenon cork the joints need to be fitted
> properly. For example if you are fitting the barrel to the
> upper joint when you hold the upper joint you should be able to
> drop the barrel onto the joint using gravity and it should go
> on freely. If not you need to sand the outside of the tenon
> first and then the shoulder if needed until the proper fit is
> achieved.
I disagree with that - tenons and sockets should be as good a fit as possible without the tenon cork so they neither wobble nor bind when assembled. If the tenon is a loose fit in the socket even by a fairly small amount, then it will be unstable.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2017-08-05 00:21
Chris,
If you fit the sections together to tightly you will not allow for the wood to expand and when it does it will surely crack. That is the reason that I fit them the way that I do.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-08-05 01:36
The joints should fit together like a slide - like the fit of a flute headjoint or sax crook tenon in the socket. They should hold together well and neither bind, nor wobble - especially the middle tenon on clarinets which should be absolutely rock solid when both joints are fitted together even without the tenon cork fitted.
Sockets aren't going to crack as they're nornally supported with socket rings and tenons can't crack if they're in compression (which they're not).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2017-08-05 09:03
I also suggest not to use that springy plastic thingy and it sounds like the crow's foot is out of adjustment. If that's the entire problem then it's probavbly just a few minutes to fix.
Sorry to disagree, but the fit you are describing (slip fit) would cause binding in different weather or after playing. Even a slightly larger gap than that (since a slip fit has a small gap too) can cause binding sometimes after playing. The fit needs to be as tight as possible without ever binding.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-08-05 14:55
If binding does happen, then that's easily remedied by gently skimming just the high spots on the tenon rings.
Best done by hand rather than on a lathe as that will remove too much wood around the entire tenon when the high spots are usually directly opposite each other and the tenon may not always be concentric with the bore.
A sharpened steel scraping tool or blade is better than using abrasives for this.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2017-08-05 20:01
I agree with Chris in that the tenons should have as good as no play, but fit without resistence. In my opinion, even after replacing the cork, the lower and upper joints can be really wobbly if the tenon's diameter is too smal.
I once had a barrel get enormously stuck. It didn't get stuck on the metal tenon ring, but the wood beneath the cork, so I was becoming quite desperate. Anyways, after I was able to remove it, gently sanding this area was sufficient and I never had this happen to me again.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2017-08-05 20:40
Maybe I should clarify. I'm not talking about what to do if there's binding, etc. It is about the best fit of tenons and it was mentioned that the fit should have no wobble like a flute or sax neck tenon.
IME this type of fit would create binding after some playing, sometimes so much that the player can't easily (or at all) disassemble it. If the cause of the binding is then fixed (e.g. the way Chris explained) then either the fit is not a slip fit, or there's still binding.
I've seen no new or used clarinets with a slip fit in any tenon joint that weren't binding. I've seen joints with as much as 0.1mm difference in diameter that are binding sometimes (after some playing, depending on weather, etc.).
So of course (slightly paraphrasing) the tenons should fit as good as possible with no play and without resistance. It's worth adding - all the time - though the question is what that fit is and IME it's not a slip fit.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-08-05 20:49
Removing/skimming the tenon rings where they're at their widest is the key factor - that depends on the humidity levels as the tenons will be oval with both high and low humidity, but in opposite planes in both cases.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
