 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2017-07-18 19:44
Hi All,
I confess, "I'm a doubler and have been for over 50 years." However, after many year as primarily a sax player, I have gone even more to the "dark side" with bass clarinet now as my primary instrument. I love it and am slowly working on the pedagogy with the goal of playing as well as I ever did on clarinet or sax.
But I have found that the transition has presented me with many new and unique "operational" problems involving mouthpiece, reeds, embouchure, breathing, voicing, equipment, etc. I am sure I'm not alone.
For others who have made a similar transition, are there some "universal truths..." about learning to play the bass? What were some of the barriers that you encountered in making the switch and how did you overcome them.
Let me start the list with a few easy ones:
1. If you play tenor sax, you have a good idea of the correct embouchure for bass but that is just a starting point.
2. Reed selection is critical. Where a soft reed might provide a huge tone in the lower register, too soft is not good when you get into the clarion and altissimo register.
HRL
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-07-18 20:10
If you play tenor sax, the embouchure won't be the same for bass clarinet simply for the fact it's a bass clarinet and not a sax. So use a clarinet embouchure for bass clarinet - firm and stable but not biting.
You can use tenor sax reeds on bass clarinet, but chances are you may need to use a much stronger reed on bass (depending on the mouthpiece facing) and you could end up playing a reed on bass by as much as 1 to 1.5 stronger than you use on tenor sax.
Aim for a full bodied, solid and centered tone on bass instead of an unsupported, buzzy, spread and thin tone. Rich and round up top and with plenty of fatness and reedy presence low down. Bass clarinet has a character of it's own, so exploit that character (just as bari sax has compared to tenor sax).
You may experience some inconsistency in the tone and tuning in the upper register and some notes may not speak easily - that's more down to the instrument and you will have to find your best way to master those built-in problems. On my bass I find the upper register F# is a really bad note which is mainly due to the position of the speaker vents (or lack of an extra vent as it only has the two).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2017-07-19 19:03
I too have been focusing on bass clarinet for the past 2.5 years in a couple of college level Wind Ensembles. Here are some points off the top of my head:
1. I upgraded from a low Eb Normandy I used for decades to a low C Kessler 2 years ago. I have used the low D quite a bit and a few low Cs. I was surprised how much the left pinky Ab/Eb is useful. The double octave key mechanism helps a lot with playing high notes without cracking. And the neck with the slip joint length adjustment is really handy for tuning and swapping reeds/mouthpieces.
2. I needed to become a lot better than I was on using my left and right pinky keys in passages. Sliding pinkys a la sax just doesn't work on fast passages.
3. I started with very open mouthpiece tips that were great for big band Bari sax chair doubling (>2mm). But these along with soft reeds do not articulate fast and have a mushy tone in the clarion and altissimo.
4. I'm currently using medium open mouthpieces around 1.9mm=.075" with Legere Studio tenor sax reeds 2.5-2.75 strength. Still experimenting and changing every 6 months or so. Studying chamber and baffle shapes and doing my own facing variations. I may continue to work down in tip opening size. I need to balance the need for playing loud with articulation speed. You need to (try to) balance with louder brass instruments a lot in a wind ensemble.
5. Take in a lot of mouthpiece for a better tone. I try to make the clarion sound like a soprano clarinet. This same embouchure then makes the low notes sound good too.
6. I use a peg and a strap. I like the security of the strap coming from a sax background.
7. Be aware of which notes are best to tune to to center your intonation best. Then learn how to adjust for the remaining notes.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2017-07-19 20:36
Mojo,
Nice list.
I am using the peg and a strap as well as I find it really gives me a very stable platform plus the security of knowing "my bass is always hooked." At first I used a bari harness but it was just not quite long enough. Recently, I picked up a Neotech XL strap with a swivel, snap hook. It is long enough and pretty inexpensive.
Also, I have done more embouchure experimentation on bass clarinet that I ever did on soprano clarinet or any of the saxophones. Getting the right reed and MP combination is critical. Currently, I am alternating between a Grabner CX BB 90 and a Garrett MO. I've tried several Selmer C*s, a VD B50, and a Portnoy with a good deal of success.
Reeds are Legere' 2-2 1/2 and VD 2 1/2 to 3. Rico Concert Grand reeds work well also.
HRL
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Author: Toolaholic
Date: 2017-07-20 03:08
Play on a good solid bass clarinet. I use a Yamaha 622 II low C bass. Kessler, Ridenour, Selmer , Buffet Leblanc etc. Get a bass with the extra register key on neck. It makes playing the mid and high notes so much easier. Find a good tech. Steve Moyer of Hammer woodwinds set mine up perfect for $300. Treat your bass clarinet with kid gloves they go out of regulation easy. And even a minor leak will stop a bass clarinet dead in its tracks . After one season of orchestra it cost me $100 in adjustments. Get a mouthpiece from a well known trusted maker. I used a Fobes nova and upgraded to a Fobes 10K. My daughter uses a Roger Garrett mouthpiece. I use a vandoren optimum ligature and swear it makes s difference in response and articulation.
Post Edited (2017-07-20 03:33)
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Author: TomS
Date: 2017-07-20 07:56
I also use a peg and a neck strap as well and really wedge everything tight for stability. A neck which puts the MP at the right angle, so you don't feel like you are playing bass sax is nice, too. I like playing an instrument that gives you a vibrating massage as you play it ... !
Tom
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2017-07-20 17:07
A number of years ago, I put up a page of "Bass clarinet advice", including tips from myself and others. I still stand by what I said there.
you can read it at http://www.clarinetxpress.com/bassadvice.html
Happy Bass clarineting!
Walter Grabner
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2017-07-20 18:06
I began as a doubler too, playing Clarinet as well as tenor, flute and oboe. Sold all those "extras" in my second year of college and bought a bass clarinet. After some fustrations with the high register I studied bass for about 6 months with Joe Allard. He immediatly identified my problem with the cheap bass I bought, a Paul Gerard, Yes, I know. Soon I bought a decent Selmer and my problems went away, and took to the bass like a fish to water. I have some good articles on bass on my website. I've taught many clarinet players and doublers to play the bass. Some took to it easlly and some not. The secret is to understand the bass clarinet is not a clarinet and it's not a sax, it's a different animal with some similarities.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2017-07-20 23:35
Both Walter Grabner's and Ed Planaker's blogs on their websites are tremendous pieces of advice. These guys are a wealth of insider knowledge. I have copies of all their materials. Great stuff.
If we keep putting these items above together in some meaningful way, we might come up something akin to a Bass Clarinet Compendium.
HRL
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2017-07-21 18:35
I need too add:
8. Proper glasses! I normally use graduated trifocals. With the peg, you can not tilt your head easily to focus on the top and bottom of the page as needed. Plus the neck of the BC is usually in the way of one eye. I can get by if I put the music close to my face and not use glasses. But this is not always practical. So... it was time for me to get a set of glasses that focuses at about arms length. Much better. I only use them for bass clarinet so they stay in the BC case when not in use.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2017-07-22 01:12
Mojo,
Yes, I have had the same problem seeing the music but it is much the same as what I experience with the computer. I do a lot of academic writing which required looking at the screen and then glancing down at a hard copy of a book or journal article for transposing sentence/paragraph citation to a word processing document.
I shared this problem with my ophthalmologist on my last visit. He said that I needed what are called "office glasses" or in some areas, computer glasses. The larger part of the lenses are set for ~26 inches and then the insert is set for very close distance when looking down. These work great for music although the distance vision (to the conductor) is not as sharp. These glasses are great particularly since you can see two pages idea by side easily.
He also told me that I should always keep a set of single vision glasses (a couple of bucks) in my case as a backup.
HRL
PS The neck does get in the way and one must often have the bass turned a little to one side so you have a clear view of the music.
Post Edited (2017-07-22 16:40)
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Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2017-07-22 04:50
Thanx for the pointers to the bass info...I, too, have to use 'computer glasses' to read music...once I made this jump, my sight-reading prowess immediately improved. It was like getting a computer upgrade...more speed for a small investment.
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2017-07-22 07:09
Mojo and Hank, I had to chuckle when I read your posts about glasses. I, too, had the same issues. The head movement is, indeed, restricted when playing bass so my progressives weren't the best option. I had my optometrist make a pair of "inverted" bifocals with the upper 1/4 of the lens having my "distance" strength (for looking up to the conductor) and the lower 3/4 my "computer" strength (used for reading the music). They look like upside down bifocals. Allows for a lot of eye movement w/out having to move my head a lot.
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Author: Toolaholic
Date: 2017-07-22 07:11
Same here with the glasses problem. I have progressive bifocals. Looking around neck makes things unfocused.
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Author: BflatNH
Date: 2017-07-25 21:45
A good Mpc and solves that problem right off - I recommend a Grabner.
An extended range (to low C) give you many more options and is well worth getting.
However, and especially for the extended low notes with many holes closed with one key, some [normally open] key springs are sometimes adjusted unnecessarily stiff, interfering with playability.
Learn to be your own tech as you will have emergencies.
Don't play a Contra [bass or alto] - the embouchure technique is different.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2017-07-25 23:55
Regardless of your 'starting' instrument:
1. In concert bands you will be frustrated by having all the low brass and the other low woodwinds doubling your part 99% of the time. Also, the band director will hate you and constantly tell you to play more quietly.
2. In orchestras you will mostly count rests during the pieces you actually play on, while the majority of the time your services are not needed at all.
3. In jazz there are only about 17 bass clarinetists in the entire world actually gigging; the rest of us are kidding ourselves.
4. In the popular/commercial music world, there are no bass clarinets used, period.
5. Playing shows is sometimes the most fun you can have, but be prepared (and competent) to double on at least a half dozen other woodwinds if you want to be asked to sit in the pit.
6. Bass clarinet bridge keys get bent on a regular basis. Automatic double register vent mechanisms will fail at the worst possible times (this is one of the hundreds of corollaries to Murphy's Law).
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2017-07-26 17:36
I agree with not being heard in most concert band arrangements. But I think most directors want the BC to play louder because of this to balance.
With college level (and advanced HS) wind ensemble pieces, the bass clarinet is often heard in exposed sections.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: Toolaholic
Date: 2017-07-26 17:45
I love playing in orchestra. I get to play high and low. Plus I get the melody sometimes. As for restbig, I sit back and enjoy the other instruments especially the strings. Plus when there is no bass clarinet part I transcribe the bassoon parts. When playing the bassoon parts I get to use the additional notes/ keys on my Yamaha low C bass. In band I play first clarinet and my embouchure is gone after 2 hours so I like the breaks in orchestra. Plus I like the selection of music better in orchestra. We play some really great music.
Post Edited (2017-07-26 18:19)
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2017-07-27 18:53
Having other people play my bass clarinet part is not as frustrating as being seated directly in front of trumpets or trombones.
I have rarely heard a bass clarinet being called 'too loud'. It happens frequently with saxes.
All bass clarinet players should insist their band play Philip Sparke's 'Mary's Boy Child' at a holiday concert. Bass clarinet is featured, although the part may be doubled with the bassoon.
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Author: kilo
Date: 2017-07-28 12:41
One piece of advice that was given to me on this board by the late Ken Shaw — invest in a good reliable stand. Everyone has his preference in stands. I'm using a Hercules stand right now which is fine but I haven't done any comparisons. It's a bit bulky but it is secure.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2017-07-29 20:18
Most secure stand (but no longer in production, and heavy): Herb Blayman
Favorite stand currently in production: K&M (bassoon/bass clarinet)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2017-07-30 00:55
DS,
The K&M is really a beauty; I've got one. The Hercules stand is a little more compact and portable but not even close as far as stability/security.
One thing with the bass is that, as other have mentioned, it can go out of adjustment at the blink of an eye. The only two proper places for it are in the case or in something like the K&M stand. Laying your instrument across your chair when taking a break is asking for trouble.
I'm pretty paranoid about leaving my bass on stage during a performance or rehearsal break and often just take it with me.
HRL
Post Edited (2017-07-30 18:26)
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The Clarinet Pages
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