 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: arclarinet
Date: 2017-07-13 00:46
I'm a college freshman looking for a new mouthpiece. I currently use a Richard Hawkins B model and a Vandoren M13, but am looking for something that produces more of a darker clarinet sound. I've heard that German mouthpieces do not work on Boehm clarinets because it makes you tune at a higher pitch. Does anyone know of a mouthpiece that would suit my needs? I want a dark, pure sound, but obviously it needs to work on my instrument.
Taylor
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Author: lisseyjj
Date: 2017-07-13 01:37
i use a rico reserve x5 with v12 reeds and a vandoren m/o ligature. this set up is great for me, but might not work for you. i think the best thing, if possible is to try the mouthpieces to get the best one possible.
for instance, lots of people recommend pomarico crystal mouthpieces, but i couldn't get a single sound out of it. and lots of people use cloth ligatures but i find the sound too stuffy for me.
again, i think you should just try out everything you can, if possible, and try to find the sound you're after.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2017-07-13 01:47
For what it's worth — I studied this past year with Michele Zukovsky, who plays German system, and we eventually settled on a B40 Lyre. It's very different from what I was used to playing previously (Fobes, M15, M13 Lyre), but now that I'm used to it, it works well. Of course the dimensions are nothing like the long/close German mouthpieces, but having played her German Wurlitzer, the resistance and sound are similar on my R13 Prestiges.
I was able to get her German mouthpiece to tune alright on my clarinet with one of her barrels, but the combination produces a sound that's actually too dark. Not enough overtones to create an interesting sound.
That being said, the sound is mostly dictated by your air, embouchure, etc, and less so the mouthpiece. I would also recommend that you ask your professor what mouthpiece is recommended — the other reason I switched to the B40 Lyre is because the professor I'm studying with next year has most of his students playing on that model.
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Author: jthole
Date: 2017-07-13 01:50
FWIW, using German mouthpieces on Boehm clarinets is a bit of a thing here nowadays, it seems ... but then we are very close to Germany.
Did you try the Vandoren BD mouthpieces already?
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-07-13 02:19
Some of the darkest sounding mouthpieces that can easily be used on a French Boehm clarinet are the Vandoren BD5, the Nick Kuckmeier "Play Easy" B1 and B2 models, the Fobes Europa, the Richard Hawkins G, and some of the Ramon Wodkowski models (I find his close faced Vintage 1 model dark, but it's best to contact him for suggestions). The Vandoren B40 lyre is one of the easiest open facings to play, and can be very responsive. It is not as dark as the very dark ones I listed earlier, but it gives a weighty, vibrant sound that the player can easily vary, and a large dynamic range, which some of the very dark models do not give.
Post Edited (2017-07-13 02:57)
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Author: Carmelo
Date: 2017-07-13 02:45
You did not mention what brand or strength of reeds you are using. With those close facing mouthpieces you might want to try the Gonzalez FOF reeds in 3.5 strength or the Vandoren blue box / V-12 also in the 3.5 range as well. Maybe using any of the rovner ligatures could also help in dampening some of the high partials if you are looking for a "dark" sound. I would experiment in other reed brands and strengths before investing in a new mouthpiece. The mouthpieces you have are great.
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2017-07-13 02:55
Are you looking for a dark sound or a warm sound? Just wanted to clarify, since it is important. If you indeed want a dark sound, which may have difficulty projecting since it does not have enough resonance to fill a hall, try German mouthpieces like the Zinner. Finding warm sounding mouthpieces is much more difficult
-- Ray Zhang
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-07-13 03:37
Quickest way I know to dampen a sound is to use a Legere Euro Signature Reed. It'll kill some of the overtones for a warmer sound.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-07-13 05:05
arclarinet wrote:
> I
> want a dark, pure sound, but obviously it needs to work on my
> instrument.
>
> Taylor
The mouthpiece doesn't produce the sound (just put your ear up to it and listen). You first need to learn what to do inside your mouth and, possibly, with your embouchure and reed style to get as close to the sound you want as possible on whatever you're playing. Then is the time to look for a mouthpiece (or reeds or a ligature or even a clarinet) that makes it easier for you to get the sound you're listening for. Playing the same way you do now with a different mouthpiece may help you in the direction you want to go, but you'll still sound more or less like you unless you change the way you do things.
The equipment supports your concept and makes realizing it easier - it doesn't create the tone independent of the player.
Then, too, if you play on equipment that lacks flexibility and makes it harder for you to vary the result, you may be unable to respond to the stylistic demands of music for which "dark, pure" isn't necessarily musically appropriate.
Karl
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Author: RLarm
Date: 2017-07-13 05:42
Over the years the desired clarinet sound has seemingly switched poles. A lot of German players play a much softer set-up causing them to sound lighter, brighter and reedier than many of their Boehm counterparts. (Listen to the section of the Leipzig Gewandhaus section with Chailly on their Mahler dvd/blu-Ray cycle. If you didn't see them I bet a lot of you would think they were French players from the the 50's-80's.) The contemporary French and American players often play with a very dark, veiled and covered tone. So when you listen to Larry Guy's Bonade and McLane reissues they actually sound brighter than most French and American players. I recently heard an excellent young college instructor. I could tell immediately he was very likely playing on a Zinner based mouthpiece. He sounded very good, but it was a non varying very good with much of the highs extremely rolled back. There was very little character and life to the sound. How many of you who read these posts have noticed this tendency? That was one of the first comments a friend who formerly played mentioned when I saw him during intermission.What has caused this change? I would say most of it is caused by the mouthpieces players currently use.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2017-07-13 05:50
The M13-lyre is much darker than the plain M13 and I like the Reserve X0. The M15 may be darker still ... The Reserve X5 may be warmer/darker than the X0, but less responsive ... I don't own an X5 but did try one out a couple of years ago ...
Try the Pilgerstorfer Dolce reeds with these ... sweet and clear but with a "light woolen sweater" over the sound ... no harshness and great smoothness from register to register ... buy 1/2 strength harder than the Vandorens ...
Tom
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2017-07-13 23:00
I guess a lot of people are just tired of the clarinet playing with the same sound for decades, so the French/American become darker, and the Germans get brighter. Just like fashion trend
-- Ray Zhang
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2017-07-13 23:04
"I've heard that German mouthpieces do not work on Boehm clarinets because it makes you tune at a higher pitch."
Hows about a German mouthpiece designed for the Boehm system:
Vandoren's MD30?
It's a bit open for me, and I don't project as well, but boy is it dark in sound.
Oh, it tends to stick a bit out of the top of my Buffet barrels but this does not affect intonation.
I think Jon Manasse plays/played this.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2017-07-13 23:21
"The mouthpiece doesn't produce the sound'
It's true Karl, as is your sagely advise to "look within" for embouchure characteristics consistent with the sound one seeks.
But its technically true--as in "technically you're right, holding a microphone up to the mouthpiece will prove this."
The more fundamental question though, I think, is whether a mouthpiece can affect/influence the sound. And for that, I'd have to say absolutely.
I, most of us, simply don't sound the same on all mouthpieces: something that wouldn't be the case if mouthpieces didn't influence sound.
Let alone we don't play the same on them either--although you never made the claim that we do.
Make no mistake, I'm very left on the continuum that puts self focused proper study on the left side of the spectrum, and gear on the right.
But even "one ligature" Drucker had a drawer full of mouthpieces he'd tried, as he referred to said drawer as "doorstops," in contempt for the way they played inferior, or so he felt, to his Chedeville/Lelandais mouthpiece Russianoff gave him.
(Students: dollars to donuts your problems in play aren't likely in your gear. Hit the etude books with a metronome, not the music store websites.)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-07-14 04:55
WhitePlainsDave wrote:
> The more fundamental question though, I think, is whether a
> mouthpiece can affect/influence the sound. And for that, I'd
> have to say absolutely.
>
> I, most of us, simply don't sound the same on all mouthpieces:
> something that wouldn't be the case if mouthpieces didn't
> influence sound.
>
I don't disagree with you. I just think you may be putting the cart before the horse. IMO, the influence applies to the sound the player creates in the first place. We could all happily play on the same mouthpiece (and every other piece of equipment) if there were no influence. I only meant to say that the equipment just enhances/embellishes/influences - supports - what the player generates internally guided by his/her ears and concept. Inexperienced players who are looking for a "dark, pure sound" or a "compact, light sound", or a "dark, rich sound" or any other kind of sound - to the dubious extent that those descriptors actually mean anything - will only produce as "xx, yy" a sound as their method of playing will allow, regardless of the mouthpiece or other equipment.
And, if there is actually a concept at work toward which the player is driving, some equipment will help achieve it and some will resist achieving it. No equipment will create a sound that the player hasn't formed.
Karl
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Author: Ed
Date: 2017-07-14 05:38
Why not talk with your teacher about this? We can all make suggestions, but someone who can work with you first hand would be so much better.
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-07-14 06:01
Taylor, these guys are right. Ultimately you're going to sound like yourself.
I've had in the past good luck with a Fobe's Europa for deepening my sound.
To the right on the main page is a list of brilliant mouthpiece makers that can customize anything and Taylor to you (sorry I couldn't resist). Behn, Grabner are amazing at their craft, as well at the others. They are nice guys and can help achieve your goals. All you need is money.
But it's work and practice that will make the permanent change You seek. (Get a teacher that knows how to achieve your goals and probably has the same philosophy as you.). Like all things, there's more to it than a magic wand. But with the perfect wand for you, you'll get there a little quicker and will let you keep it.
Keep practicing my friend.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2017-07-14 17:19
There is no answer to this question other than try as many as you can to find the one that fits you. Ultimately you will have to work at acheiving a darker sound. It doesn't simply happen with a new mouthpiece. A darker tone may require your getting used to a different resistance than you're used to, finding the proper reed for the tone you're looking for and than resisting going back to your "normal" feel.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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