 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2017-07-07 01:42
Hi clarinetists,
I am a rising senior in high school, and every year our school district holds a City Music Festival in April, which is located on our Middle School soccer field. Last April, I, being the principal clarinetist in my school, performed Weber's Concerto No. 1, 3rd movement. Turns out that day was extremely hot, and it became very difficult just to get a good sound from my cane reeds, let alone play the music expressively. I think my reed dried up under the hot Southern California sun ![[hot]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/hot.gif) ![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) Although people said I played well, I could've done much better.
This is going to be last year in high school, and I am pretty sure my Band Director will want me to perform another solo. If he does plan for me to play a song, I'll probably go with the Weber Concertino. But my main concern is the weather and how it will affect my playing. ** To be honest, I'm not worried about being out of tune, because everyone will be extremely sharp due to the heat. Nor am I concerned about projection, since the soloist is mic'd up. I'm concerned about my reed drying up and becoming difficult to blow/control. ** I'm thinking abut using synthetic/plastic reeds, but I have never tried them before.
I do know that a lot of people play on them, however, from Ricardo Morales to Wenzel Fuchs. But I've also heard that plastic reeds tend to produce a dead, spreaded sound. Can someone tell me how good they are at outdoor performances for classical works? Any particular brand (Legere...)? Any info on plastic reeds would be appreciated ![[rotate]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley25.gif)
-- Ray Zhang
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2017-07-07 01:57
Quick addition:
Last year I anticipated this problem already and filled a clean pill bottle with room temperature water, and proceeded to bathe my reed in it beforehand, like what Oboists do. Still didn't really work.
I know some of y'all are going to say you don't know until you try it for yourself. This I completely understand: I do plan on trying them out, but right now I just want to hear from you guys, people who have more experience at playing the clarinet than I do. For example, maybe there is a certain brand that just won't work? It'll save my money and time and I can probably skip over that reed. Maybe I can solve the problem without even needing to switch to synthetic reeds? I want to hear from you guys first before I make a purchase.
Thanks to all you guys in advance!
-- Ray Zhang
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2017-07-07 02:02
Sam, it's not just whether you play out of tune, but if you do so with relative equality among the notes on your instrument (i.e. issues of temperament.)
Life might be easier if clarinets consistently, with respect to this measurement, played out of tune. Then again, who knows with the application of acoustical physics applied to things like tone hole placement. To wit: changing barrel length affects some notes more than others to such a point where space between the upper and lower joints should change before further barrel adjustments are made, in least in cases of sharpness.
I'm not suggesting you go out and get another instrument, but a rubber one like Ridenour's might have more of the answers you seek that the setup on your mouthpiece.
As far as synthetic reeds go, I think Legere has really stretched the limits of the space, in good ways, with the Euro product. In my opinion synthetics have come a long way. They're great for me in practice or on a day where cane just isn't "doing it."
But I find just too many issues with intonation on them. Maybe it's me, maybe it's my mouthpiece. Others have reports similar problems, and yet others non-issues.
I haven't heard there to be that much of an issue with the quality of sound assuming the tuning isn't a concern. After all it's the player that makes the sound given the setup. But that's been in an indoor space, not your venue.
If others in the know don't report sound quality problems a Legere Euro may be the way to go for you.
It might also depend upon the piece, as upper altissimo notes seem to have larger tuning and playing issues.
I think, I may be wrong, that other posts here on what makes a good Legere Euro mouthpiece tend to lean towards longer rail closer tipped ones.
Good luck.
(A Legere Euro user, but by no mean a convert from cane.)
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2017-07-07 02:30
Hi WhitePlainsDave, maybe I wasn't clear. I am in tune under normal conditions, but given that I play a wooden instrument, it does vary under extreme weather. But I am not even concerned with intonation in hot weather. As I said before, everyone else in the band is going to be sharp under the sun, so I might as well be sharp with them.
Thank you for your input on the Legere, will definitely consider them.
-- Ray Zhang
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Author: Ed
Date: 2017-07-07 02:31
The only way to know is to try them. I have heard players use them and sound just as good as cane, in fact in some ways better as the evenness and consistency was great, possibly better than many cane reeds. Try a few strengths of the European Signature Legere and see if you find one that works. Brad Behn sells them and would be helpful in choosing https://www.clarinetmouthpiece.com
Check this out for an example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ3tDnOwn48
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-07-07 02:44
Ray, there have been many, many posts here about Légère reeds, especially since the European Style Signature Légère came out. Some players don't like them, but many of us have recently switched and find them very playable. You're right, though, that you'll have to try them to decide for yourself. Here are a few of things to consider. I'm basing all of this on the Euro style Légères. I've never personally liked any of the others, but your mileage might differ. It's a little long-winded, for which I apologize in advance.
Compared to cane, your sound may spread slightly, but not so much that it's a totally different characteristic. You make the sound. The equipment - including the reed - either supports the sound you're trying to make or it doesn't. If you notice a difference, it won't be so great that non-clarinetists who aren't listening for it will notice.
You can't just buy one Légère and be able to judge it to be either the answer or a curse. They aren't that consistent. I currently have a rotation of 5. One is excellent for chamber music, two others seem better for orchestra work and two respond quite well but aren't colorful enough in sound for my taste, so they make better practice reeds. You'll need to decide what strength works best and then buy two or three to choose the one you like best for a performance. Légère does offer an exchange (not a refund) if you don't like a reed you've bought.
Another reason to have more than one or even two is that, in my experience and that of many others who have written here about them, they tend to become soft and less responsive after an hour or so. This might be more true in a warm outdoor environment. They return to their original quality by the next day. So you need at least two **that you like** for a full length concert. You can certainly get through the Concertino on one reed (it's about 10 minutes long), but not the entire concert if you're playing the rest of the performance.
Again in my experience, these reeds' great strength besides not needing to be wet is that they are very consistent from one day to the next. Two Légères may not play identically, but one Légère will play tomorrow the same way it played today. I've been using them since last summer and only in the past few weeks have started to replace them as they've begun to feel tired.
I have found that the intonation problems I had when I began to use Légère Euros have pretty much gone away. I can't tell you exactly how I've solved the problems (mostly, as Dave said, flatness in the altissimo), but I know I've made subtle, mostly unconscious adjustments in my embouchure and oral shape. The point is that you won't play your best if you wait to use a Légère until the week of your concert. You need time to adjust to them.
For this reason, I would say that, if you don't have any intention of actually switching to Légères on a longer term basis than just a single concert in April, you should be sure to try one or two in advance and see how easily you adapt to them. If you find too many issues, especially flat pitch going up those altissimo passages in the two variations, you might reconsider your options. If you give it time, you will adjust, but perhaps not if you make the change only for the Concertino and only the week before your performance.
FWIW, since I switched full time for several weeks last summer, I have made a point of playing sometimes on cane - even now after a year I want to keep checking to see if I still find the result with plastic comparable. I don't have any trouble going back to cane, so I don't think I've lost anything by making the switch and living with it for awhile. But that's up to you. At this point I still find the slight trade-off in sound I mentioned earlier worthwhile.
Karl
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-07-07 05:32
Ray...
Karl's experience is almost identical to mine. And he was more elequent than any description I'd give.
For me the Legere Euro Signature is the only way to go when considering a synthetic. (Legere is pretty sensitive about calling their product plastic, so out of respect, I avoid the putting them in that category.)
I can get a good hour of play before they start becoming soft...in a pinch I just raise the reed. I've never noticed (or had another musician or clarinetist) my sound becoming spread. I have noticed a lack of overtones to my quality. I don't have as much 'ping' with Legere as with an Aria cane reed. If you love a more Germanic, dark quality to your sound, then Legere could be a great thing. There's a slight learning curve with them. Start practicing with them yesterday.
Extreme altissimo can be 5¢ flat, but it's not horrendous.
Up to ![[G6]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/g6.gif) no big problems.
In general my pitch is very stable. I do use a Ridenour for all my outside playing. So obviously the instrument has a lot to do with it. But there's no reason you should be at any disadvantage with grenadilla.
On personal note...I love playing the Baermann cadenza on concertino. Definitely check it out.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-07-07 06:23
ClarinetRobt wrote:
> I've never noticed
> (or had another musician or clarinetist) my sound becoming
> spread. I have noticed a lack of overtones to my quality. I
> don't have as much 'ping' with Legere as with an Aria cane
> reed.
Yes, I think this is probably a better description of the difference than "spread." I hear it as slightly less color in the sound than with a good cane reed. With a Légère I like, it's to my ear a very small difference.
Karl
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2017-07-07 07:42
The Legere European Signature are as good as everybody - who likes them - says. Just note that trying them out will cost you ~$30 a pop. If you like them, they'll last a long time. If you don't like them, it's pretty expensive to learn that.
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-07-07 09:02
Yes it's expensive.
A box of vandoren is almost the same cost. How many great reeds in a box...one, two? Pretty good...two, three? Ehh reeds...two, three? Unplayable...? Those reeds play how long...couple of months?
I'd argue that your already spending more for less.
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2017-07-07 19:15
Thanks all for the replies! Initially I was unsure of which Legere to get, but it seems like the Euro Signature is what most prefer. I ordered them last night on Amazon, so I will see how it sounds.
Thanks for those who gave me a good description of what it feels like playing on them and how they sound. I definitely need to try them out myself to see how it works for me, but getting the general idea of it is good to know. I really just need a synthetic reed (or any reed) that can allow me to play with proper control in a hot weather. And most of my audience are just residents of the community, so I'm not too worried about the color of my sound. And I will me mic'd up, so no worries about the lack of "Ping" to the sound that will probably reduce projection in a concert setting. Guess the Legere Euro Signature is worth a shot.
I'm going to start trying them as soon as I receive them to get used to them. Just a quick question: how many of you guys practice on Legere (to save the money and the time/frustration on finding good cane reeds) but still perform on cane reeds in the end? Is it easy to do?
-- Ray Zhang
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2017-07-07 19:27
ClarinetRobt, nearly forgot about the cadenza, thanks for reminding me of that! It's not printed in my edition, but I do have the one that someone posted on another post. Will most likely play the cadenza since it will stand out, sound "cool" and not sound "boring" to an audience who has little appreciation for classical music
-- Ray Zhang
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Author: RLarm
Date: 2017-07-12 22:32
I echo the statements that many made suggesting using Legeres, specifically the European Signature. For the synthetic haters out there, I doubt that they would be able to tell that you are using a non-cane reed. Legere has made incredible strides in improving their reeds. The Signature is so much better than their original versions. And you don't have to worry about keeping it damp which can be a major problem when playing outdoors. I used the original version of the Legeres for all the parades I did for over five years (20-30 a year!) and that one reed is still usable. Now I wouldn't use it for an audition at Juilliard but it certainly served its purpose. However, there's nothing like a great cane reed IF you can find one. Yes, they do not all play the same but they are continuing to improve. I read an interview of Walter Seyfarth (Berlin Phil) that mentions he loves the Legeres THAT ARE HAND SELECTED FOR HIM. I would too! A retail manager told me that she says the future of reeds, primarily due to the variability of cane, is in the synthetics. So when you get your reed(s) expect to be surprised in a positive way.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2017-07-13 18:03
"Spread dead sound" is complete horse hockey.........
The reeds sound really good
This performance in London I was playing Legere with the fmr Principal Clarinetist of the Royal Philharmonic (he also played on the Film Soundtracks of Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings).
http://www.skypeclarinetlessons.com/about.html
scroll to the bottom (not sure if it starts automatically or not)
If dead or spread sounding, I apologize in advance..... 
select 4K for most accurate sound
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2017-07-13 18:04)
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2017-07-13 22:46
Thanks all for your replies! I am not at home during the weekdays during the summer due to a summer program, so I think my reeds should have arrived by now. When I get home on Friday night I will test them out, and update you guys on Saturday.
David thank you for sending me the link to let me know how it sounds. I don't know how to put it in words... but I'm sorry to say that your sound was extremely spread (joking ) I guess it is capable of an excellent sound, but we'll see if it is suitable for me. I've been watching a lot of your vids on YouTube, and they have been helpful, such as the Wenzel Fuchs Q&A (which also discusses Legere reeds) and the recording of the Weber Concertino performed by Michele Zukovsky. Seems like the Legere reeds provide a clean, clear sound.
-- Ray Zhang
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