 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-06-12 19:37
I'm kicking the idea around about changing my Bb. I currently have a Buffet Prestige (RC?) that's about 15 years old. It's a terrific horn and doesn't suffer from typical Buffet ailments. John Butler has just completed a beautiful overhaul.
I'd love to switch to a CSVR (I love my A horn), but I feel like it's a downgrade to my Prestige. Not because the Buffet is a superior horn, but because the Prestige offers silver plating and the auxiliary, left Eb key. (My acidic hands eats nickel and silver has proven to be tougher finish. And well, the left Eb is just a nice thing and has made my life easier several times.)
Of course Yamaha offers horns with these attributes. But which ones are closest to the CSVR? I haven't noticed a lot of chatter about higher end Yamahas on the Bboard. Truthfully, I haven't played most of Yamaha's offerings. Please suggest options. Are those as consistent as the CSRV? Pro/cons other models vs CSVR?
I want to be clear, I don't need a new horn, but would like to have a matching set. Just toying with my possibilities. I feel confident I could sell my Prestige and all but fund a new Yamaha.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-06-13 00:52
Before counting Buffet out of the game, listen to Pierre Genisson play the Mozart Quintet on the new Buffet Tradition model.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Genisson+Clarinet+Quintet. The Tradition is obviously capable of some very subtle, sophisticated responses and nuances, and has a warm, compact sound that is a bit of a departure for Buffet, especially in the altissimo. A few shops, such as the one run by Heather and Alcides Rodriquez, are hand selecting Tradition clarinets at the factory in France so American players can see what that model is capable of at its best. (They should have some at the ICA in Orlando). How does the CSVR compare with the Tradition? I haven't seen a review of these two side-by-side yet. The Tradition does come with a left hand Ab/Eb lever key.
The various CSG models are fine instruments but would not be a close match to the Buffet Prestige in feel or sound. The players I know who switched to CSG II were not trying to match Buffets; they were actively looking for something very different. Few American clarinetists have tried the high end SEV-Artist model yet.
Post Edited (2017-06-13 00:59)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2017-06-13 05:29
The CSVR comes with silver keys. Have Steve Fox (or someone else) add a LH Eb lever. Problem solved. It looks like the CSVR is around $3K...easy purchase.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: gwie
Date: 2017-06-13 14:40
The CSVR comes by default with silver-plated keys.
Talk to your local Yamaha dealer, many of them can offer substantially better pricing than the official retail price. I've acquired CSVR Bb clarinets for my students for close to $2500.
As for an Eb lever, you could also contact Yamaha Artist Services in NY and see if you could get a custom one made to fit your hand specifically. My colleagues who had special modifications done on their instruments by Tomoji Hirakata have nothing but the absolute highest praise for his work.
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-06-13 17:52
Thanks guys. I bet I read the CSVR product description 10 times, yet managed to miss the whole 'silver' part of the description. It says, "Thick Key Plating." But I never clicked on the 'Specs' tab to reveal Silver-Nickel plating.
Realizing customization is awesome. I've always been a 'stock' type of guy. I'd never buy a car, then go change the wheels. But having these options for a horn I'd treasure opens up possibilities for me personally.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: RLarm
Date: 2017-06-13 21:38
The CSVR plays WAY better than a typical Buffet. For the Buffet one often has to send it to a custom repair person before you can realize its full potential. My CSVR blows away the Toscas that a "big name" player selected for me. I 99.9% sure that it will play a lot better if I send it to a clarinet repair specialist, but that's going to cost me big bucks. It's your call.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-06-13 21:58
The LH Ab/Eb lever is optional on all Yamaha clarinets - even the 200 series. So best order one with the LH Ab/Eb lever as that will cost far less to have one fitted at the factory than to have an aftermarket one made and fitted.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2017-06-14 23:06
After a 3 year search for a new instrument I've now playing the two High end Yamahas, a set of CSVRs and a set of SEVRs. I've owned over the last 3 years a Backun Cocobolo, a Buffet Divine, a beautiful set of Toscas, a Tradition and a Festival. I've tried all the new Selmers, none of them played as well as my R series Centered tone, so I didn't acquire them.
The Yamaha CSVR out played, and out "tuned" all of the previous instruments, and incidentally were the least expensive of all the clarinets I played. I now also have a set of the newly revised SEVRs and I love the way the play also. They do have a different tonal spectrum than the CSVRs, Very pleasing and different. Its not a better or worse thing, but a "what do I prefer thing"
Yamaha really went the extra distance with these revisions of clarinets. These instruments play better than instruments I have that cost 3x as much. The SEVR and the CSVR come silver plated, and it's the best plating I've ever seen on keys. At Music and Arts Center, they were $300 less then a nickel R13, $800 less than a silver plated one. These Clarinets are really worth trying next time you're looking for new instruments.
Tom Puwalski
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-06-15 01:37
Thanks, Tom, for trying them all, including the new Buffet Tradition. I hope both the Yamaha CSVR and the SEVR are prominently on display for testing at the ICA this July.
Post Edited (2017-06-15 20:02)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-06-19 06:45
I'm with Tom on this. Try the new SEV'R's and the CSVR's both are really nice horns. Even the CSG111R the latest German horns are really great, with a French mouthpiece. It is a straight bore.
I couldn't be happier with the CSVR's. Up close the the Buffet's, Backun's sound better, but if you get a few feet away and sit in an orchestra hall things change fast. Backun's, Buffet's don't cut it. The Yamaha sound warms up and carries a lot better. Of course you have to be playing on the correct mouthpiece. A Vandoren M13 just isn't open enough in a hall like Orchestra Hall or the Kennedy Center. The tip openings are only 1.01mm's.
So you kind of have to make some adjustments. Look for tip openings around 1.07 to 1.11. Or even more open. 1.15.
If you want that dark dead sound well stay with Buffet's and the Vandoren M13 mouthpieces. For the last decade the clarinet sound has gone in the wrong direction. We have to bring back that Marcellus sound. And many others who filled the halls with warmth. Students of the great Bonade.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: RLarm
Date: 2017-06-19 21:04
I agree a 100% with you Bob B on today's tone quality! Everybody seems to be playing with that dark(?), covered and veiled tone which never seems to vary. It's a nice tone but with so little variety and flexibility. What's the biggest differences between the CSVRs and the SEVRs? Maybe I will sell my set of Toscas and buy a set of SEVRS and still have a lot of money to spare. I'll try checking with John Yeh. He wasn't joking when he said that the CSVRs were the best instruments he had ever played on.
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-06-19 23:47
I went out of my way to listen to Marcellus' Mozart this weekend in my car.
In full disclosure, I haven't heard the Marcellus recording in 20 years. His sound is the opposite of what I thought I remembered. I thought I remember him sounding 'dark'. Sure it's warm, but it's also really colorful. I'd never use the word 'bright' at all...there was a lot of heft/fundamental to the tone, certainly not thin. I fell in love with him and the concerto all over again. (Side note, the 3rd movement seems a tad slow to me, but I'm sure I've been jaded with Frost recordings. And I like Martin's sound too.)
The entire time I was listening I kept thing, 'yes' this is exactly what I'm after. I always felt he had another 25% of volume left in the tanks if he wanted to use it. As always, it was tasteful and never needed. His quality could ping through any concert hall and hold it's own with any brass section, yet melt butter. I had a similar impression of Bill Hudgins' sound recently too.
In general, I do like my sound I'm generating, but there's always room for improvement. As always I appreciate you guys help pointing me in the right direction. I'm definitely going to set some time aside and find away to get a hold of and test these Yahama horns.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-06-20 12:14
RLarm
You can sell your Tosca's, buy a set of CSVR's, go to the ClarinetFest, stop by my booth, I will introduce you personally to Yamaha, get a mouthpiece for your CSVR's, fly to France for a week or 2, see the Steuer reed plantations, and have money $1000 left over. Yamaha has special deals at these festivals.
Yes John Bruce Yeh is fun and a wonderful guy. Also dang talented. He's been with Chicago since he was 19. Just celebrated his 40th year with the orchestra.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2017-06-20 19:31
I'm gonna agree with Bob, up to a point. I find that the mouthpieces that I've been playing on, various versions of an M15 type facing. By that I mean something slightly longer and a smidge closer than the standard Matson facing. They sound great on both the CSRV and the SERV. I do find that on the SEVER I need to use a slightly harder reed. All the mouthpieces that I played on my Toscas, Divine, Tradition, Backun sound really good on the Yamahas. I will say this more open shorter facing mouthpieces that I have and never worked on the Buffets, work on the Yamahas.
I have found that on the Yamahas I can play some seriously "open" mouthpeices that didn't sound great on other clarinets. D'Addario X15 and X25s, with a slightly softer reed, these moutpieces always sounded a little "wild" on the Buffets. The Yamahas keep the sound "contained" at the extreme volumes I can get on those facings.
I've been playing the CSRV for 4 months and the SEVR for maybe 3 weeks and I feel I'm starting to relax into the yamahas. They are far less work to play. If you switch it will take a few weeks to stop "over playing" them. The Yamahas are just really easy to play. Try one.
Tom Puwalski
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Author: TomS
Date: 2017-06-20 19:48
Buy the CSVR and keep the Buffet ... each have their place, depending on the music, acoustics and your mood. Enjoy both!
Tom
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Author: RLarm
Date: 2017-06-21 21:41
Bob B, what are the primary differences between the CSVR and SEVR? I'm seriously thinking of selling my Toscas and getting a set of SEVRs. John said that the SEVRs were a little too WILD for him. Regarding the Toscas, my retailer friend said I wouldn't have any problem finding someone to buy them. Most people have drunk the "Buffet cool aid." I already have a set of CSVRs. They are excellent plus!
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Author: RLarm
Date: 2017-06-21 22:11
Bob B and Tom: Where can one find a set of Yamaha YCLSEVRs? They are not yet available through Woodwind & Brasswind where I bought my CSVRs. They were absolutely in mint condition (the box was never opened) and played fantastic. How many people can say that about a Buffet? Tomoji Hirakata is a genius!!!
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2017-06-21 22:40
I got the SEVR Bb from Quinn the Eskimo on EBay. The A I got while I was in NYC from Yamaha. I don't know which model I like better, both have Beautiful sounds that are different from each other. and they are both very easy to play.
Talking about sound is like dancing about architecture, so talking about the differences is really hard. But if I were to try, I'd say the CSRV has a denser sound, more "Core", The SEVR is more expansive or more open. The CSVR plays like what I always thought an R13, Should play like. The SEVR, has something in the sound that reminds me of my 1958 Selmer Centered tone, but way more playable. The Selmer Centered tone, in my humble opinion is the only Selmer clarinet that I think was as good as a Buffet but different. I haven't played any new Selmers that sound as good as a Centered Tone.
I'm going to try to record something on the SEVR and the CSVR to provide an audio example. Just because I try never to forget that I might just be totally "full of crap" with what I just said and if we listen to the two, the conclusion might be totally different.
Tom Puwalski
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Author: RLarm
Date: 2017-06-22 01:01
Bob, is there any way I can speak to you directly on Facebook, email or phone? I have questions that I want to ask you about the SEVRs.Thanks!
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-06-22 07:25
RLarm,
If you don't need to try them first, look at http://www.gear4music.com/Woodwind-Brass-Strings/Yamaha-Custom-YCL-SEVR-Bb-Clarinet/1JGA, or https://www.woodbrass.com/en-gb/intermediate-clarinets-professional-bb-yamaha-ycl-sevr-p223533.html. Howarth and Dawkes don't carry it, probably in preference for the "SE Artist model." At least last year, that's what Romie de Guise-Langlois was playing, and they sounded pretty good.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-06-22 07:38
Bob and Tom,
I know you have both tried and purchased some CSVRs. But have either of you tried the SE Artist model that dorjepismo mentions? The SE Artist, considerably more expensive than the SEVR, with a new diamond shaped logo and two-toned metal work, appears to be very hard to find in the U.S. It is different from and much newer than either the SEVR or the SEV Masters model that John Yeh used to play before he switched to the CSVR.
I wonder if, when Yeh reportedly said one of the new Yamaha models was "too wild" for him, he had the new SE Artist model in mind?
A photo and description of the SE Artist: https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/winds/clarinets/ycl-se_artistmodel/index.html.
And a full performance of the Messager Solo de Concours on an SE Artist by Istvan Kohan:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kohan+messanger.
Post Edited (2017-06-26 17:50)
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2017-06-26 05:37
I did a quickie recording this morning using the SEVR and the CSVR. I like using different mouthpieces and or reeds or clarinets when I multitrack clarinets. So here is a Pixinguina tune where I'm using SEVR on lead and CSVR on the harmony. I used a D'Addario XO mouthpiece and a 3.5 Reserve classic reed.
https://soundcloud.com/klezmertom/diplomata-yamaha-sevr
Enjoy
Tom Puwalski
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Author: RLarm
Date: 2017-06-26 22:08
Thanks for the link seabreeze! Fantastic playing to say the least. Listening on my "dumb phone" I got the impression that this clarinet has more resistance than the YCLCSVR. It seems to also have a more"covered" tone than any Yamaha that I have ever heard. But it could just be my phone.This has reminded me to put out a post "America last" later today.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-06-26 22:43
I own a Yamaha SEV; they've been out for quite some time. In fact, I believe they have now been discontinued? Along with the CSVR (an updated CSV) the other new Yamaha of interest to me is the SE Artist. I hope both are available for trial at the ICA next month. So what is the difference between the newer SEVR and the new SE Artist? All these model names are confusing.
According to Wilfred Berk, Kohan is playing a Kuckmeier B1 Play Easy mouthpiece and a Japanese MOMO ligature on the SE Artist. Part of the covered sound quality you hear may come from the very dark Kuckmeier model. If the SE Artist were paired with a Vandoren B40 lyre mouthpiece, the results could be very different--more vibrant and a wider dynamic range. Kohan is a virtuoso who seems to have switched from a Buffet Tosca to the Yahama SE Artist, unless he now alternates between them.
Post Edited (2017-06-27 06:26)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-06-27 05:10
RLarm
You can email me with your number if you wish. I am not on facebook, so I cannot get in touch with you. Also I don't really know a thing about the SEVR clarinets. They were recently released this year, February, and I haven't played on them.
I'd say to talk with Tom P as he has played on both maybe he owns both? He is a great player.
savagesax@aol.com
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-06-27 06:30
The multitude of Yamaha models and their various names is confusing. We are talking about 4 distinctly different models, I guess: The SEV, the SEVR, the SE Artist, and the CSVR. The SEV has been discontinued so that leaves the new SEVR, SE Artist, and CSVR. Besides these, there is the shorter barreled CSG, CSG ii, CSG iii, CSG iiiL?
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2017-06-27 07:29
I've been told that the bore in the SEVR is the same bore that is in the SE Artist. There are a few differences, silver keys, gold or Hamilton posts, and it has the low e, F pitch keys. It's the Same configuration as the CSG.
The SEVR is a much improved version of the SEV, just as the CSVR is improved over the CSV. I really want to try an SE Artist. I suspect it will play very much like the SEVR. It looks to cost about 2X the SEVR, but that's understandable, some people just can't play a clarinet that doesn't that doesn't cost $5K or more. I'm glad I'm over that idea.
Tom Puwalski
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-06-27 08:33
That clarifies the situation considerably. Thanks. So far the SE Artist has been kept under wraps in the US. I hope it makes an appearance soon.
Post Edited (2017-06-27 20:08)
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2017-07-05 17:26
Here is something that I just recorded with my band. I'm on the CSRV with a Jim Kanter mouthpiece, that's about a 105-6 the PT2 facing just slighly more open then my usual Kanter that's about .99.
This is a tune called Lecha Dodi, which mean "come my beloved". I've played it many times at weddings, it's also sung to welcome the Sabath. https://soundcloud.com/klezmertom/lecha-dodi-3
I really like the intensity that I can get on this clairnet. It can get intese with out getting "brittle or glassy".
Tom Puwalski.
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Author: RLarm
Date: 2017-07-08 02:53
Sea breeze, thank you for the link to istvan Kohan's YouTube of the Messager. It reminded me of a quote from a member of the Philadelphia 0 after a VERY young Sarah Chang did the Tchaikovsky with them:"I can practice that piece for the red of my life but I will never be able to play it any better!" It was a great performance and it was interesting to note that one can still play without having the mouthpiece perfectly centered in your mouth.
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2017-07-08 08:46
Did Sarah Chang have her last name shortened from Changstein ala the Jerry Seinfeld show.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-07-08 09:01
Pianist Doremi Takahashi deserves credit in the Kohan performace of the Messager for making the piece a real duo with interplay between the clarinet and piano. She is always exactly with him and seems to be reading his mind. A great joy to hear!
Istvan Kohan has magic and mystery to his playing that is rare in clarinetists. Still under 30, he is already a virtuoso and is fast becoming a fine stylist as well. It took me three hearings before I really got what he was aiming at in his rather wild solo performance of Piazzolla's Tango Etude No. 3. Now I think it is my favorite performance on clarinet of this piece:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=youtube+search+query+Kohan+plays+pizzolla+tango.
He plays it on the new Yamaha SE Artist model.
Post Edited (2017-07-09 01:14)
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-07-08 20:54
I'd say he has my favorite sound of anyone right now. It's dark but with a lot of color.
And that SE is the most beautiful horn I've ever seen. The two tone is just stunning.
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2017-07-08 21:33
I sitting in the studio recording this morning so I picked up the SEVR and recorded a litty Choro Bach on it. I have to say I'm really liking this clarinet. You can really push on it and it stays mellow and you can put a lot of air into it. I recorded this on the SEVR with a Ramon Wodkowski moutipece and a D'Addario #3 reed.
https://soundcloud.com/klezmertom/bach-invention-14-sevr
Enjoy
Tom Puwalski
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2017-07-11 01:13
Ive been getting tons of questions as to the differences between the SEVR and the CSVR. It's hard to describe, so I'm doing a few recordings of both. I've done Uhl 1. today on both clarinets. Here is how I did. I played the UHL 1 4 times through on each clarinet and recorded the 4th time. The clairnets were both cold on the first play though and we warmed up the exact same amount. I played it with a click track. I wanted to maintain a very similar feel, because one cut was going to be the 8th time through, I went with the click. I used the same mouthpiece a Ramon Wodkowski, with a #3 reserve classic reed. I chose to do it 4 times because if I would use take 6 or 7, I think the clarinets start not sounded as different. Anyway I'd be very interested in what you all percieve the difference.
https://soundcloud.com/klezmertom/uhl-1-csvr
https://soundcloud.com/klezmertom/uhl-1-sevr
no settings, recording position or anything changed during these recordings the only thing is the instruments.
Thanks Tom Puwalski
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-07-11 03:46
Both are solid clarinet sounds with good overtone presence. The CSVR has an "eee" voicing with a slightly tighter, treble quality. The SEVR is more of an "aaa" voicing, round and organ-like, more relaxed, even soothing.
Perhaps the CSVR is just a tad on the French side and the SEVR a bit more Germanic (whatever that means).
Both are pleasing to hear and easily rival the sound of the best clarinets, but to my ears, the SEVR has a special sort of caressing quality of charm and sweetness.
Could be all in my head, of course.
Thanks, now I really have to try these clarinets.
Post Edited (2017-07-11 05:50)
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2017-07-11 05:29
The CSVR it think it has been said that really resembles an R-13 and I can get down with that, I think the CSVR plays better than any R-13 I've played.
The SEVR I've heard it said is RCesqe, that I don't buy. It has a more open mellower tone. It keeps that rounder sound at a much higher volume then the CSVR. That's with the same mouthpiece, which isn't really a fair test. I think each of this clarinets might want something a little different.
The SEVR has more of that old Selmer Centered tone, openness to it, but it is much easier to wrangle than the old CT.
Tommorow I'll record Uhl 2 which is a staccato study and I'll see how both horns react under a different kind of playing.
I still don't know which one I like better, when I play one for a whole day I end up sounding like me.
Tom Puwalski
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2017-07-11 06:21
Hi Tom!
Thanks for the links! I've enjoyed listening to your playing.
I do have one question for you...
I'm curious whether you have recordings of these two clarinets in a "dead" (or more dead) room without the "hall" sound. They sound beautiful in a hall (or with hall effect - whatever the case may be)...but, as a jazz player, I rarely frequent concert halls. I"m curious what these instruments would sound like in a more intimate setting. Please don't go out of your way, but if you do have any such recordings on your soundcloud, I'd be grateful if you could direct me to them.
Thanks again!
Fuzzy
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-07-11 06:44
Tom,
If the CSVR resembles a Buffet R13, which I think it does, would it be much of a stretch to say that the SEVR resembles the more open sound of a Buffet BC20 or the new Tradition?
Post Edited (2017-07-11 06:46)
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2017-07-11 07:23
I have never played the BC20 but my friend has in paris in the 1960s, where Robert Carree told him that it wasn't for him because it was pitched really high. I had a tradition and I sold it first. I didn't feel it was in the close to the league of the the Yamahas or even the Toscas. If I decide to keep any of the Buffets that I have and I have a set of Tosca and a Divine. It will be the Divine. I think that is hands down the best Buffet I've ever played. But I think I like the sound of the SEVR better. It's more linear and I think the intonation is better.
Keep in mind these are my ramblings, you might play these and experience them completely differently. Over the last three years, I've had a buffet Festival, Tradition, a Set of Toscas and a Divine and of course an R13. I can't play a clarinet for 20 minutes and make a decision on it. I have to play it for a few weeks find it's "g spot" figure out what kind of mouthpiece it wants, what kind of resistance it plays the best at ect. I'm not "dissing" Buffets, The 2 that I still have a really beautiful clarinets, but Yamaha really hit it out of the park with these two clarinets. I would think that even if they costs as much as the "high" end Buffets, but they are less then a Nickel r-13 and they are silver plated.
Tom Puwalski
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2017-07-11 08:44
The older R13's from 1955 to 1970 differ from todays R13's because they used one entire billet of wood to make each clarinet which had many advantages over the later production when they made all upper joints on one production line and all lower joints on another and barrels and bells on another line and then just put them together randomly. Also proper growth time and curing of the wood is not achieved unlike the earlier R13 clarinets.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2019-06-03 16:33
"The older R13's from 1955 to 1970 differ from todays R13's because they used one entire billet of wood to make each clarinet"
Really?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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