 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GenEric
Date: 2017-06-11 11:53
I've been saving up some money and i'm going to get a summer job so that I can get a nice clarinet.
I saved up enough money to get myself an R13 which my private teacher will hand pick. My teacher really pushes for an R13. I told her that I wanted to go to the Yamaha plant in Buena Park and try out a couple of CSVRs and 650s. My teacher made an compelling point that none of the professionals that he/she played with has ever had a Yamaha. Although I really want to get a Yamaha horn, I feel like I will make a bed decision and regret it in the long run or something.
If anyone was in my shoes, what would you do? Pay some extra money, like around $4000ish and get a hand picked r13, or go to the Yamaha plant and try out some CSVRs but have no experience picking out horns. (just a question, are the people who work there very helpful? perhaps they can help me pick one out)
I really want to try out some of the clarinets. However, i do not trust myself and I will think that i will choose a bad horn and regret it in the long run.
There are a couple of stores around my area that sell professional horns. However, none of them offer CSVRs and the 650s are a rip off. (like $2000)
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2017-06-11 16:15
Your private teacher doesn't have a great argument for ruling out Yamaha clarinets.
Steve Ocone
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2017-06-11 16:47
If you really want to try a Yamaha then I encouraged you to go out and try one. In fact, try as many brands as possible before making a decision. There are a lot of instruments out there that play far better that an R13. The best instrument is the one that plays well for you.
BTW if she questions you, just tell her there are professionals all around the world who use Yamaha clarinets.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2017-06-11 17:42
What is wrong with your current instrument--or to rephrase, I seek to hear the argument(s), coming from you, that make me feel that you realize what a new clarinet will, and equally important, what it won't do for you.
Second, the musical instrument market space is not one where, necessarily, the vast majority of people are playing "the" best manufacturer's instrument. Sometimes, it's better described, to Steve'e above point, metaphorically speaking, by "..well my dad's dad drove a Buick (Buffet), my dad drives a Buick, and we are a Buick family so I will drive one as well..." if you catch my drift.
By no means is this an attempt to trash Buffet: which this writer plays. But other factors sometimes go into the clarinet purchase decision that don't go directly to price and quality--which can be bad reasons that lead to less than optimal decisions.
Some market spaces are like this. For example--to keep this brief--take software. Sometimes the Word Processor everyone buys is the one with the best market share (read: the manufacturer will be in business 5 years from now to support it)--which might have gotten to its position of prominence being the best at the time (which might or might not still be the case), while competitors come out with possibly more feature rich and/or cheaper products that just can't knock the big king off its mountain to achieve the market share necessary for survival.
Final point on this thread: I'm not suggesting you do or don't buy Ridenour, which I think are great clarinets, especially for the price, but rather, I wish to leave you with some food for thought--that might stir up some debate:
is a Buffet Tosca, with its low F correction key a feature or product limitation when Tom Ridenour claims to make clarinets that don't need one.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-06-11 18:32
Just to play devil's advocate for a minute...
One of the main elements in Eric's post is his feeling that he isn't confident he would know which clarinet to choose. It's all very well to say, "pick the instrument "that plays well for you," but Eric isn't sure he'll know or, at least, that he'll know which clarinet is the "best" of many that seem "good."
It's silly to say in 2017 that R13 is the "best" clarinet on the market (as people here on the BBoard remind us constantly). But it's also silly to say that no R13 is worthy of consideration. You can find an R13 that's out of tune or responds unevenly or doesn't seal well enough even to judge response. But an experienced player with enough R13s to choose from can almost certainly find one that plays well. If the same player were to try Yamahas, he would find a good one of those - maybe with fewer to choose from because Yamaha's production techniques seem to produce more consistent results. There are good clarinets to be had from any of the major clarinet manufacturers and many of the smaller ones - including Buffet and, specifically, R13. For an experienced player, the choice comes down to deciding which of a selection of good instruments best meets his expectations for tone quality, intonation and response ("feel").
But a younger, less experienced student is at a disadvantage in not really knowing what he prefers, or at least not having a really strong basis for his preferences, because that's a function of experience. So the choice for him (and other younger students) isn't so much between clarinet brands and models as it is between trusting his own knowledge and "instincts" or trusting those of a more experienced teacher, albeit a teacher with a clear bias toward R13.
To Eric: You should certainly try the Yamaha clarinets and any other brand/model you think you'd like to consider. You should also try R13s on your own to see what *general* opinion you form of those. You'll also experience the range of quality among individual instruments. If you find you have a clear preference of a model's overall characteristics, go with your preference. If you still feel, after finding good examples of each, that you aren't sure what you're looking for and can't decide, then take your teacher's advice.
If you actually decide after comparing that you prefer R13 after all, let your teacher help with a final choice of individual instrument
In the end, it isn't really likely you'll get a "bad" clarinet either way. Assuming you're limiting your choices to Yamaha CSVR and Buffet R13, Yamahas are quite consistent whereas involving your teacher will protect you from the "worst" R13s. Your teacher's resistance may even start to soften if she sees you've done some preliminary work.
Last point - choosing a clarinet isn't a lifelong commitment. Your expectations and your needs often change down the road. So you really shouldn't worry too much about "the long run." Concentrate on what you need now and what will satisfy both your needs and your available cash.
Karl
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-06-11 19:02
Karl's right about pointing out that choosing your own instrument is less meaningful when you might not have enough experience or a clear idea of exactly what you're looking for to be confident of making the right decision. At the same time, having your teacher "hand-select" an instrument can be almost as hit-and-miss. It depends on how many instruments your teacher gets to try and how good they happen to be; how close your teacher's setup is to what you're comfortable with; and whether your teacher's preferences are the same as what yours will be as you gain experience. Since you're attracted to Yamahas, you should at least try one. Maybe also see if Bob Bernardo or someone in L.A. would be willing to help you look at horns there. Or maybe it's worth a trip to Orlando, where they will have rooms full of horns.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2017-06-11 19:57
I paid $1900 for my 650 at a "brick and mortar" store in Memphis ... not far from the widely advertised price of about $1866.99 ... they were gonna sell it to me for about $2700 until I "enlightened" them ... but I did have to pay local sales taxes which make it significantly more expensive. So, $2000 is really not that far out of line.
.
The CSVR might be the best "wooden" clarinet, period. And, you can sometimes get them for about $2500, making them a steal.
I just purchased a new R13/Greenline ... and I like it very much. I think the composite material yields much better consistency on the Buffets ... and I play a lot in crummy conditions, and I needed something that would tolerate the heat, cold and humidity. I didn't go thru a bunch to find one ... and I had the top joint fitted with cork pads ... which I highly recommend on the greenline, plastic and hard rubber clarinets. On wooden clarinets, the tone holes have to be very clean for cork pads to seal their best, and that is why we are seeing so many new ones with leather pads.
I also alternate my outdoor gigs with a Ridenour Lyrique Libertas. Really a different blow, better in many ways than the Buffet. Try one!
I enjoy the compactness of the R13/greenline and the pitch is higher (less flat) in the altissimo for me, in respect to the Libertas. That may just be the way I play and my setup using a fairly soft reed ... your mileage may vary. As far as tuning, the R13/greenline is surprisingly good ... much better than you would think, considering all the negative reviews ... And the smoothness and warmth from note to note is very nice. Still a very viable clarinet ... I suspect the design had gone thru many unadvertised small refinements over the years ...
So, if I were looking for the best wooden clarinet, the CSVR might be my choice. The best non-wood instrument for the price is the Libertas, IMHO ... but the R13/greenline doesn't "have any flies" on it, if you know what I mean ...
Tom
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2017-06-11 20:07
I would, TomS, be interested in you further comparing a green line to a Ridenour--particularly as it relates to their limited abilities to be affected by environment (temp/humidity).
Is a Greenline's blow, IYHO, similar to a conventional Buffet, which is easier flowing than, by design, a Ridenours, at least as I, and my others agree it to be, or do you find differently?
Note: this is part of Ridenour's design of keeping pitch, color, and clarity, or so he claims, more consistent, not a design limitation. (I own and like Buffet and Ridenour clarinets, though I don't think they necessarily play similarly.)
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Author: TomS
Date: 2017-06-12 02:08
Although I have not played many traditional wooden R13s lately, I suspect you can find some that have a similar resistance to the greenline versions. I think most of the resistance differences are minor bore variations and pad height adjustments. The bore steps in the greenline are very apparent visually, the Libertas and Yamaha 650 are polished very smooth ... It's almost like the R13 bore was polished before the final bore steps (near the top of the top joint) were machined, with possibly a little additional polishing to blend everything. I think polishing the bore could be risky if not well regulated, you could certainly polish the bore out of spec. ...
The Libertas is more free blowing than the R13 ... the Yamaha 650 is a more free blowing than the Libertas. The 650 has slightly more "weight" in the sound, as an average, over the Libertas, especially in the lower register, this might be that wood is heavier/denser than hard rubber. The R13 has even more "weight" but comparatively "stuffy" ... but, a nice continuity of blowing from note to note but not as smooth over the break as the others, especially the Libertas.
Tuning wise, not sure ... my 650 has quite sharp throat tones, but a longer barrel fixes this with few bad artifacts with the rest of the notes ... almost like the instrument is about 1-1.25mm short. The Libertas probably has the best overall tuning ... but honestly, the others are pretty good too ... slightly gobsmacked that the R13 is better than expected.
Frankly, (and I hate to admit this), one reason I picked up an R13/greenline is so that others (in the better ensembles) won't look at me askance. It's my immediate ticket to acceptance and the Buffet Brotherhood. And, I wanted a base line to compare other makes and models.
Just buy one of each ... problem solved! Libertas/CSVR/R13 greenline ... they all have personality and are fun to play.
Tom
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2017-06-12 09:05
In order for a student and teacher to achieve success in the teaching process they need to be on the same page. I would listen to her and let her select the best R13 she can find which makes the most sense. Best of luck.
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2017-06-12 16:24
Personally, I think the teacher is doing you a great disservice if she's trying to steer you to any particular brand. I think she should encourage and assist you in test playing numerous horns. After all, YOU'RE the one who'll be playing it, not her.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-06-12 17:16
"It's my immediate ticket to acceptance and the Buffet Brotherhood." Nah, it's the secret handshake, but they won't show you that until you're _really_ accepted.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2017-06-12 17:22
Clarineteer: I agree with your premise (student and teacher being on the same page,) if not the means by which you seem to imply achieving it: necessarily acquising to the will of the teacher.
I need to clarify what I mean. All other things equal, the teacher is more knowledgeable and rightfully in charge. No disagreement there. My point is that many attribute, for example, Leon Russianoff's abilities as a pedagogue to the idea that neither the student nor their instrument had to be one size fits all; i.e. his flexibility--at least as it approached nuances like tone, or artistic expression.
This opinion is not to in any way discount your perhaps pragmatic one that may say, "if this is the teacher you want to be with, it might be best to do things their way."
If the O.P.s teacher is this way, one possible solution here, to at least consider, is to seek, possibly in addition to a new clarinet (I've yet to hear what's wrong with the current one), a new teacher. Then again, maybe not. Some students like teachers who draw very clear lines. Many say the late and great pedagogue Kal Opperman better fits this model, not to in any way imply that Leon wasn't completely structured when it came to things that mattered in play, and that Kal wasn't open to explaining or debating after a student had set a tone (no pun intended) with him that made it very clear that when it came to the fundamentals, it was Kal's way or the highway.
But this really wasn't a post about teachers, was it?
The better Buffet clarinets of a lot, IMHO can hold their own with any competitor's wares. But so too (and I speak with the bias of a near lifetime long Buffet player) can the best wares of many other manufacturer's instruments hold their own with Buffets.
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2017-06-12 18:11
Teachers come and teachers go. How many teachers will the OP have in the next ten years? Should the OP plop down $2000-$2500 for a new clarinet each time the teacher has a bias? Sometimes biases blind and bind.
Not suggesting that the OP does the following...and speaking only for myself: at this point in my life - if a teacher told me that I needed to buy specific magic gear in order to succeed - I'd find a different teacher. Clarinets are definitely not a one-size-fits-all proposition. (As demonstrated by the number of various models of professional clarinets on the market today, the various number of clarinets we each own, and the discussions on this bboard.)
My advice would be: Buy the best clarinet you can afford. If that's an R13, great! If that's a Yamaha or Ridenouer...great! If it's a great used model...great! If it's some other brand...great!
As odd as it might seem - if I were just learning to drive, and my driving instructor told me that I needed to buy make x and model y of a vehicle - I doubt I'd take their word for it. I would evaluate other makes and models too, instead of solely following the advice of my instructor.
There are a lot of really nice (and comparable) "vehicles" out there which are more than capable of getting a student where they want to go.
Just my thoughts on the matter,
Fuzzy
PS: Do we know which musical styles the OP sees themselves playing down the road? (That can make a difference in gear decisions.)
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Author: gwie
Date: 2017-06-12 18:16
My issue with blanket recommendations for R13's is that they are no longer the only game in town, and are overpriced compared to the competition.
The Yamaha CSVR can be found for close to $2500. It is basically the equivalent in terms of tone quality, but has superior intonation and fit-and-finish. I've selected a couple for students, and the consistency of each one coming off the line is incredible.
The Backun Protege in Grenadilla with silver-plated keys and a LH Eb lever is also around $2500. It's a fantastic clarinet and the manner in which the instrument (and its more expensive cousins) plays is quite attractive...it's different than Buffet, but different can be better!
Not the mention the other excellent options from all sorts of other makers. When an equivalent new silver-plated R13 is $3793, it would not be prudent to ignore these options. It's 2017, not 1987. As a long-time private teacher, part of my job is also to recognize that not everyone is going to become a music major, and if they can get a professional clarinet and save over a thousand bucks, it's probably the best way to go.
Post Edited (2017-06-12 18:17)
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Author: wkleung
Date: 2017-06-12 18:21
This reminds me of similar stories I saw first-hand.
Asian students arrived at North America with (then) top-of-the-line Marigaux oboes (901 and 910), and promotly demanded by their new teachers to buy and use Lorée oboes instead.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-06-12 18:43
"My issue with blanket recommendations for R13's is that they are no longer the only game in town, and are overpriced compared to the competition." Well, Howarth sells R13s for right around £2,000, and even with shipping, CITES processing fee, and customs, it's still in the same ballpark with the pound in the tank like it is. Of course, you'd have to be in London to try one first. They also have a couple Yamaha models it's difficult or impossible to find here. Not sure why the US gets shafted like that, but it's been that way for a long time.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-06-12 19:05
gwie wrote:
> The Backun Protege in Grenadilla with silver-plated keys and a
> LH Eb lever is also around $2500. It's a fantastic clarinet and
> the manner in which the instrument (and its more expensive
> cousins) plays is quite attractive...it's different than
> Buffet, but different can be better!
>
This is the crux of the problem. The OP isn't sure he can choose wisely among things that are different but sold as equivalent. All of the older, more experienced players who have said effectively that Eric should ignore the teacher's advice or, more extreme, look for a new teacher are filtering this through the lens of their own greater level of security.
I wouldn't take anyone's advice, either, without trying a lot of competing instruments. Most teachers, assuming they don't have a financial interest in the product they recommend to students, base their own bias at least in part on the knowledge that what they themselves use successfully will also allow their students to reach a high level of success. It isn't necessarily, though it can be, stubborn traditionalism.
The teacher's involvement in selecting an instrument for Eric should at least ensure that he won't get a bad R-13, and there are certainly good ones to be found. Eric seems to have a mildly preconceived bias toward the Yamaha CSVR. The ideal solution would be for him to convince the teacher to help select among however many CSVRs he can find to try and the best of whatever R-13s the teacher has access to. If I were his teacher, I would be willing to do this. IMO, however this works out, Eric will probably end up with a very good clarinet.
Karl
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2017-06-12 19:35
Karl,
First, let me say that I greatly value your posts. I enjoy the knowledge you offer the forum and am always interested to see what you have to say.
In this issue, I feel that the answers have all taken certain things for granted, which aren't necessarily true. The OP voices self-doubt, but that's normal for anyone looking to spend 1/4 of their annual income on a single purchase. We'd all be afraid of making the wrong choice, but that doesn't mean we're incapable of making the right choice...there might be several "right choices" - all being choices which would meet (or exceed) our needs.
Also, the quality of the teacher: I do not know this teacher, and do not intend to voice anything disparaging about this particular teacher. Let us assume for this discussion that this teacher is "the best teacher ever." However, we do know there are bad teachers out there...we know because we've experienced them, seen the results of their workings, or heard about them. Automatically assuming all teachers are good is just as ill-advised as assuming all teachers are bad. Teachers come in varying degrees. For me (yes, given experience and age), I mark a teacher down for demanding a certain make/model - especially in the face of the student having done their own homework, and having voiced a preference towards specific well-qualified products.
Also, the type/style/venues which the OP plans to play. Outdoors? Busking? Concert Halls? Classical? Pop? Folk? Jazz? Military? Freelance? Commercial? Studio? We don't know with certainty where the OP sees himself in the next 5-10 years. The answer to these questions would also play a roll in which instruments he should be evaluating.
Yes, I think we all are "filtering this through the lens of [our] own greater level of security" - which, of course is what makes this bboard so great!
With Highest Regards,
Fuzzy
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2017-06-12 21:36
>Sometimes an OP just perhaps wants a straight answer: NO
Simply saying no to a particularly model clarinet, especially one as popular as the R13, is very short sighted. Why should OP not choose an R13? And what model should they choose then? These questions cannot be answered in a singe word.
Sometimes I feel OPs become more confused than when they started thanks to everyone's individual biases and preferences.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-06-12 22:09
I don't feel compelled to answer the direct question in the subject line with tons of minutiae. Other here have brilliantly laid their feelings with the pros/cons of R13s. Yes they are great instruments. Few have denied this fact. But companies are making better clarinets these days (my opinion).
For example, if I had to 'test drive' 10 Lexus to find the perfect LC500, then Lexus wouldn't stay in business. I pick the color and features I want, and wallah, I have a great car.
I find Buffet's inconsistency baffling from a manufacturing stand point (I understand they've improved) and their ability to keep any brand loyalty even more bewildering (good 'ol boy network?). No offense to instrument manufacturers, but the clarinet has been around for 427ish years. You'd think we'd starting figuring out to make one without much drama.
The OP is receiving tons of opinions. The answer from me, Robert, to the question is the subject line is, no.
I'll offer this...go buy the CSVR. I think it's the better instrument...for the countless reasons others have stated. Yamaha has figured out how to make a clarinet without much drama.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
Post Edited (2017-06-12 22:10)
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Author: toffeeman3
Date: 2017-06-12 23:13
From a relative green horn I understand the dilema. As new players we assume that a more expensive/wooden instrument will sound better than say an ABS model eg B12 or Yam. 2 series.
From my days of other sports such as tennis and bowling I would say that the best product is the one you feel comfortable with.
in terms of instruments it is not always possible to try out many comparative clarinets to make a choice unless your local store has a private room for you to spend time with several instruments.
I would say then that if money is no object then you would be buying at the top end of the Yamaha/ Buffet range and if you are not a professional then the Yamaha/Buffet models you refer to would be more than adaquate for your needs. If you are a professional then you would automatically know which models to choose from.
Would a proffesional use a 12 for instance? no but would he/she make a better sound with it than a non proffesional with a Tosca? then yes.
07469847273
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-06-12 23:36
I use to brag for years how my Buffet was hand picked by a pro. Buffets lined up like suspects in a criminal investigation. I guess my horn was selected from that group and it was the biggest thug there (best playing). I paid a premium because I didn't have the time and expertise to do it on my own. But I ended up with an amazing instrument...a 1%er. But in hindsight, why go through the headache. At the time I didn't know better and I had drank the Buffet Koolaid.
What happens to all of those duds? I assume those R13s arrive at a music store near you. I pity that HS player buying one there (that's been picked through countless times) never realizing mom and dad just drop thousands for an inferior product. Conversely if the same HS kid walked into a random music store and bought a CSVR, more than likely they got a great horn...even if it wasn't the best of th best.
Why reward a company that gave the middle finger to the entire community for decades...knowing their R13 wasn't really like the original. New Coke? Had every opportunity to improve their product...lord knows prices never went down...but instead delivered a subpar product. Yet we all put up with it.
Well I won't. Sure the OP can buy an R13 and after someone tries 20 of them, he'll no doubt get an amazing horn.
The process is ludicrous and I recommend to not participate in it and reward a company that thrives on the mayhem. I understand Buffet is kinder and gentler now...good. Not sure if they deserve anymore of my money.
Not a lot of minutiae on this post. LoL.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
Post Edited (2017-06-12 23:57)
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Author: gwie
Date: 2017-06-13 14:49
I just refuse to spend any more hours of my life picking through instruments to find a "good" one or a "baseline" one for comparison, unless I don't have a choice (individually handmade violins are a whole 'nother ball game).
Consistency in quality control is an important thing, because our time is valuable. I'm delighted at Yamaha's consistency with their products because I have not run across a CSG, CSVR, or 650 that has been a "dud."
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Author: RLarm
Date: 2017-06-16 11:25
I agree almost entirely with the people who have already posted, in particular those who were talking about the Yamaha YCLCSVR. That is a fantastic horn! I own a set of Toscas and the Yamaha blows them away. Oh yeah, I can send it to a customizer who will charge me close to a thousand each and all of that will end up costing me around $17,000. With the Yamaha, they play right out of the box and they cost me around $6,000 for a set. To be honest, the very best clarinet that I have ever played on was a R13 from the late 50's or early 60's. They were so, so, good. However, I have never played a Buffet since then that comes anywhere close. I don't know what Buffet did but they are still trying to live on the reputations from horns in that era. And even then Bob Marcellus had Hans Moennig work on every single note of his Buffet and Bud Wright constantly worked on his Buffets. THESE WERE NOT STOCK INSTRUMENTS! So should you get an R13? Yes, if it is that rare gem. I have an analogy that you will understand. You are playing Russian roulette. For the Yamaha you only have a bullet in one chamber. For the Buffet you have five bullets and only one empty chamber. Good luck and let us know what you end up getting. I would love to sit down and talk to your teacher.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-06-16 16:58
GenEric wrote:
> My teacher made an
> compelling point that none of the professionals that he/she
> played with has ever had a Yamaha.
I feel as though the topic has been pretty well exhausted, but I'm a little curious about your teacher's position. I find this particular argument far less compelling in itself than you do, but did he/she (I've been assuming it's she or you probably wouldn't have bothered being enigmatic about it) have anything else to add in strong favor of a Buffet? Did she have anything to say about the quality of a Yamaha except that none of her colleagues play them?
I'm just wondering where this conversation actually stopped and whether she really is so dead-set against your buying a Yamaha and was just offering advice. Now that a week has passed (maybe you've had another lesson since), have you had any further discussion about this? Would you say that she's adamant about wanting you to buy a Buffet or is she more flexible than your original post implied?
Karl
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-06-17 11:15
Got rid of all of my R13's. However, I have NOT played on the 650 and the Tradition. I am very happy with the Yamaha CSVR's.
I've heard that the Tradition is very good. So you may wish to test out this new Buffet. Forget about the R13's for now. Lets see if Buffet gets their act together sometime in the near future. It's very hard to find a decent R13. They already got rid of the Divine. It was overpriced and very dull or dead sounding. They need to do this with some of their other horns and just make a great R13. Right now they don't. I felt this way about the Backun's but I think they are making some adjustments and they are not as dead sounding. I sure hope this continues.
I finally got a couple of new barrels I like for the CSVR's. These CSVR's play very well with the standard barrels, but I al always looking. You have to test them out.
As far as what your teacher said it is often hard to change someones mind and opinion. There are a lot of pros playing on the Yamaha's. I don't want to list them but you can find several in major symphonies around the world and right here at the movie recording studios in the Burbank area, most of them are playing on Yamaha's.
Some of the larger halls just sound better on Yamaha's. Close up Buffets sound very good, but if you get out into the hall your choice of sound may change. Yamaha's fill these halls.
As far as pitch, take a close look at the upper register of the Yamaha's VS the Buffet's. The Buffet's tend to go flat. Great effort needs to be placed into fixing this.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: GenEric
Date: 2017-06-23 10:13
Hey guys! Sorry for the very late reply. I have private lessons with my teacher every other week so I wanted to talk to him/her again to hear some more about what he/she has to say. I guess I should start from the beginning. First, he/she wanted to see if it was worth upgrading the clarinet so he/she tried out my Ridenour Noblissima. Although it was tuning very well, he/she said that the instrument is very, very resistant and that some of the notes are not as clear and pronounced as the other ones. My teacher told me it is worth upgrading to a professional clarinet and he/she is totally open to if I get a Buffet or Yamaha. It all depends on my budget. However, my teacher has a preference toward Buffets. I guess people are too scared to be part of the anti buffet cult?
My teacher made another points why it's good to stick with the main stream popular clarinet. For one, he/shehad a student who had a backun clarinet that needed fixing. For one, I was told that the backun (no model name was given), has very unreliable keywork. In addition, it is a clarinet that is much different clarinet or in other words, a "specialized" clarinet.
From the backun story that I heard from my teacher, I guess my teacher just wants what's best for the students. Although it means spending more money, I guess the r13 is a very reliable, very widespread, popular clarinet that can last students for a long time.
I went to a music store in socal and tried the 650 and csvr. To be honest, I was very impressed. For the price, the keywork and attention to detail is phenomenal. However, I don't know if any other people in the forum have the same opinion but I just like the R13 a little more for it's "smaller bore" which just makes the instrument easier to control, I guess.
For now, I guess i'm getting the R13. But, I won't keep the CSVR and other professional models out of my eye. What's good about Buffets i guess is that they have very high resell value which is great for the future if I want to upgrade.
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Author: jthole
Date: 2017-06-23 11:41
Here in Europe, you get a lot of frowns when you tell that you consider switching to Yamaha. The "Made in Europe" clarinet sentiment is very strong here. I would be surprised if more than 10% of the serious concert / community band players here would play a non-European made instrument.
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2017-06-23 14:22
An R13 takes all of the mistakes and regrets out of your decision. Best of luck in all of your undertakings. By the way it is no accident that 87 out of every 100 clarinets sold today are Buffet.
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