 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2017-05-02 11:00
Hi, everyone:
I am contemplating having my YAC-20 (edit: YCL-20) rebuilt and have a couple of quick questions:
1. My main concern--mine has its original stainless needle springs which are rather heavy gauge and set up for very stiff action. Will these still respond well if the action is lightened up?
2. Are there any weaknesses in the instrument design that I should have my technician address?
3. Has anyone given one of these a very careful overhaul? If so, how did the instrument turn out?
If I go ahead with this, I'll have cork pads installed on the normally-closed upper joint tone holes, and leather pads installed elsewhere on the instrument.
Thanks in advance for your insights!
Post Edited (2017-05-02 21:29)
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2017-05-02 15:52
I have never seen a YAC-20 and I can't find it on the Yamaha web site.
The YCL-20 is a popular plastic student clarinet, now discontinued. I suppose you could have cork pads put on it. I wouldn't. A quick and inexpensive cork pad job could result in an instrument that plays poorly.
Springs. There are great stainless steel springs and there are ones that will never feel well. I'm guessing the Yamaha Springs would be fine.
Some keys will never feel as well as others due to key design. In general a slightly thinner spring bent more feels better than a thicker spring and a longer spring feels better than a shorter one. Unfortunately, some keys can only fit a short spring and to give adequate closing pressure it is thicker.
The more precisely a pad is installed, the more the spring tension can be reduced. Cork pads need to be very precise.
Then there is the question of leverage. The throat Ab and pinky Ab/Eb are operated close to the access of rotation. Getting these to feel good involves some time and there are some tricks as well. I hope I haven't put you to sleep.
The best approach is to back off the spring tension before the pad is installed and (hopefully) seals.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-05-02 19:00
If the YCL-20 is like the old YCL-24, then it is an incredibly well built clarinet. They appear to be based on the Selmer Series 9* and the keywork is impeccable and far better made than any equivalent clarinet and better than current Yamahas.
With all plastic bodied instruments, there has to be some lateral play in the keywork relative to the lengths of the key barrels and rods (longer key barrels/rods needing more end play than shorter ones) to ensure the keywork won't bind up solid when played outdoors or in cold churches as plastic expands/contracts in all directions with changes in temperature whereas metal is far more thermally stable - the two don't really mix. This is fine when it comes to keys mounted on rod screws as they will remain in the same plane whereas keys mounted between points will have far more play in all directions.
It is indeed possible to cork pad plastic clarinets (I have a YCL-24 which is mostly cork padded and has leather pads in the four largest pad cups) and the combination of both cork pads and plastic clarinets goes together very well to give an instrument that seals bottle tight and therefore very responsive. But you will have to prep cork pads to make them perfectly flat and have no flaws or imperfections running across the face as that will cause a leak.
Toneholes on plastic instruments are usually perfect if they've been machined well, but still check them to be sure they're level. Plastic doesn't have pores or a grain pattern, so you can largely expect toneholes to be spot on unless they have been damaged.
Yamaha used two different types of resin for their woodwinds - phenolic resin (Bakelite) which is a heavy, dense and brittle plastic and is now only used by Yamaha for student clarinet and sax mouthpieces (4C, 5C, etc.). They changed to using ABS resin which injection moulds really well with excellent detail, but is less dense and has a low melting point, so if you are drilling or cutting into it, go slowly otherwise the plastic will melt.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2017-05-02 22:59
I was hoping Steve and Chris would chime in on this...you guys made my day!
Yeah, the subject here is a YCL-20. I've discussed the YAC series of accessories at length on another forum...guess my fingers were just on autopilot after a long night at work.
This isn't going to be a DIY project. The 20 would be going in to a tech for the rebuild. This instrument will be getting a lot of use, so I'll happily invest extra in the rebuild to make it as ideal a solution as possible. I am evaluating possibilities and developing a wish list for the project at this time.
Steve, many thanks are in order for your explanation on springs. That addresses my question completely!
I already have a plastic-bodied instrument, a B&H 1-10, set up with cork pads on the normally-closed upper-joint tone holes, and leather elsewhere. I find this to be an ideal setup: lightning-fast response that feels superb under the fingers.
Chris, I am unfortunately well aware of the thermal expansion/contraction issues here. The rehearsal hall I most often work in is usually around 12℃ when we arrive for February and March rehearsals. Later in the year, we can be performing outdoors under bright sunshine in 35℃ heat. I've already worked with the YCL-20 under both extremes and it's much less prone to thermal instability than the Vito models I'll soon be retiring.
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Author: Toolaholic
Date: 2017-05-06 16:00
I just got my ycl 20 back from Hammer woodwinds. It feels very good in hand. Plays great. Cost about $185. Some pads and corks and rings and key heights adjusted.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-05-06 16:15
If you compare the overall fit and finish on a '70s Yamaha with a current one, you'll see the '70s one is far more labour intensive in its build - far more machined parts and solder joints on the older ones compared to single piece stampings or castings used on the more recent ones.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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