 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: LeftHandedClarinetist
Date: 2016-11-02 05:13
Hello. I am a relatively new clarinet player (young). I have been playing for 6 years since 5th grade, and am currently a first chair in my Varsity band (Sophomore). Funny how the other students have R-13's with the crystal (Pomarico) mouthpiece horn setup and I'm the only non-wooden horn.
I HAVE AN URGENT QUESTION. I am getting the Pomarico Crystal Mouthpiece, but do not know which one to use.
I have the Yamaha-255 (ABS Resin), I use the V21 3.5 reeds.
The Pomarico comes in 3 types:
-Ruby
-Emerald
-Diamond
But then they have either (B) Bright, or (M) Mellow. I currently play on the Vandoren B45 mouthpiece and it's horrible. I CAN'T PLAY THE HIGH E (highest clarinet note) without squeaking after ~2 seconds. It just won't play. Reed won't vibrate (I've tried everything and my teacher said maybe it was my mouthpiece). So which one do I get?
I want:
1. The crystal Pomarico mouthpiece.
2. A fuller more resonate sounding clarinet. In other words, I need one that will PLAY RESPONSIVE in the high notes with good stability. (My biggest thing is high notes E, D, and C).
3. Which one will make my clarinet (ABS Plastic) sound more fuller/richer; the (B) Bright, or (M) Mellow? Which one will make it sound like so?
4. The Emerald (not getting it) has the smallest gap, the Ruby has the second to smallest of <1.10mm gap. The Diamond (B) has the biggest of 1.25 mm. My B45 (current Vandoren) mouthpiece has a 1.2mm. People say the bigger the gap, the harder/less responsive it is to play high notes.
#1 Priority is High Notes. Thanks!!!
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Author: donald
Date: 2016-11-02 05:29
You've asked a number of question I personally don't have time to answer- but the most obvious thing to write is this...
- Have you tried the other mouthpieces that your colleagues (friends?) play, and have you tried the high E on THEIR setup to see if you can do it. This may give you a perspective on how much of the problem is YOU, and how much your clarinet/mouthpiece/reed....
Just a quick suggestion, good luck!
dn
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2016-11-02 05:36
Do you have a teacher?
I would also suggest trying your friends' mouthpieces.
Also... you should know that this mouthpiece isn't going to be a magic solution. Do you have a teacher?
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2016-11-02 05:43
I agree with the suggestions above, to have other people try your setup/ try others.
As for the mouthpieces themselves, you should just order them all and see which one is best for you. Lots of sites have trial policies that will let you try multiple mouthpieces at a time. Also there are a lot more options out there than just those crystal mouthpieces, other vandorens, customs (Hawkins, Pyne, Fobes).
I don't really know anything about those mouthpieces specifically, so I'm no real help there, but I do highly suggest trying as much equipment as you can and having other people listen to you play on it.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-11-02 05:49
Hmmm. Lots of stuff here. I'm currently working happily with a Pomarico Emerald, so I'll give my thoughts. I'll go "line by line" for you to try to keep it organized. Keep in mind these are just my thoughts, ONE random person on the internet! You don't have to shoehorn yourself into only wanting a crystal mouthpiece, but it's not like I'm gonna be able to convince you. I was once a sophomore and I KNEW what I wanted and I was GONNA GET what I wanted! Try whatever you like and whatever your wallet and conscience can afford.
As first chair in your Varsity band, I've no doubt you'll be able to know what feels right and what doesn't. Whenever you DO try these or other mouthpieces out, consider trying different size reeds (don't think your V21 is going to bring out the best of each different model mouthpiece), and have some friends listen to your sound and give you their honest opinion. They don't have to be clarinetists, or even musicians, just people that can appreciate and give honest feedback on whether something sounds nice, or doesn't sound nice.
Quote:
I want:
1. The crystal Pomarico mouthpiece. It's perfectly fine to want one. There's nothing inherently better or worse than a hard rubber one, but the heart wants what the heart wants! I enjoy playing my pretty pomarico mouthpiece, and it certainly plays well enough for me.
Quote:
2. A fuller more resonate sounding clarinet. In other words, I need one that will PLAY RESPONSIVE in the high notes with good stability. (My biggest thing is high notes E, D, and C). This is much less the mouthpiece and much more the reed that's matched up to it and YOUR embouchure and playing level. IN GENERAL, I find that the more close the tip of the mouthpiece, the more stable higher pitches will be. Not that they CAN'T be bent or smeared (I can smear the hell out of my close tip mouthpieces and can bend a thumb C down more than a fifth or sixth if I want), but it takes more work to bend and smear, which to me feels like it's more forgiving of my mistakes and will better keep stability when I'm playing a pitch. But you need to match the reed accordingly. I like to pick a reed by playing a low E at forte, and decrescendoing to niente with a firm (NOT biting, but firm) embouchure. I go as hard as I can that will allow me to keep resonance and keep the fuzzy sound of "air" from being present all the way to niente. If I can't reliably make the note decrease in pitch while simultaneously not hearing the air go away, the reed is too hard. I should be able to fade ALL sounds into nothing at the same time, NOT have loud air wooshing through the clarinet cause my reed is too hard.
Quote:
3. Which one will make my clarinet (ABS Plastic) sound more fuller/richer; the (B) Bright, or (M) Mellow? Which one will make it sound like so? No idea. So many people have so many preferences. I prefer the "bright" models MUCH more than the mellow ones. But from my searches on this website, I seem to be in the minority. You're going to have to check multiple ones to see which you like better.
Quote:
4. The Emerald (not getting it) has the smallest gap, the Ruby has the second to smallest of <1.10mm gap. The Diamond (B) has the biggest of 1.25 mm. My B45 (current Vandoren) mouthpiece has a 1.2mm. People say the bigger the gap, the harder/less responsive it is to play high notes. That's incorrect. I've played everything from a Gigliotti P facing (EXTREMELY close tip/long facing requiring a size 5 reed for my above test), to a Vandoren 5JB (EXTREMELY open tip, where a size 3 felt a little hard to me). You can hit the high notes on any good quality mouthpiece of ANY tip opening size with a properly matched reed. You can get great response on any good quality mouthpiece of ANY tip opening size with a properly matched reed. It's just that, for me, the Emerald Bright gives me the best compromise of comfort, sound, and seems very reed friendly (not finicky with having to adjust reeds "just right")
Quote:
#1 Priority is High Notes. Thanks!!! Hate to burst a possible bubble, but this is NOT mouthpiece dependant. With the right reed and right person, your B45 will practically sing. Now your B45 MIGHT be finicky about what reeds it accepts, or you may have the right reeds, but it's more likely that you just need to really focus on your tongue position, embouchure, airflow, and basically YOUR playing in order to gain consistency and stability in the high notes. There are pros that play every sort of mouthpiece.
BUT.....
In my humble opinion, in addition to continuing to work on your tongue position, embouchure, etc., a close-tip mouthpiece with a properly matched reed offers the most pitch stability throughout the clarinet. I don't think any tip opening has any difference in response. But a well-matched reed will make a difference.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2016-11-02 05:51)
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Author: LeftHandedClarinetist
Date: 2016-11-02 06:00
Thank you so much! I am using the V12 (gray box) 3 Strength or V21 (light blue box) 3.5. People say the Emerald Bright/Mellow is very stuffy/resistant and won't make much sound. Is it similar to what happens to when I bend the reed back (a year ago to experiment, I know I shouldn't have but still), it seems to play easily, but it's just scratchy and the pitch is horrible. :I
I just don't know what's up with my mouth. People are playing it like it's just a mid register C...(and they are younger and less experienced). I've tried new reeds, new everything, except a Pomarico crystal (yes my heart dies for it. Shiny).
T_T Idk what to get/ probably leaning towards Ruby Mellow
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Author: LeftHandedClarinetist
Date: 2016-11-02 06:44
Ugh. Some people are saying the Emerald Bright has a better staccato ability (responsive) and has a more fuller tone.
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Author: MartyMagnini
Date: 2016-11-02 17:32
I agree with all of the above sentiments regarding a teacher, and that the mouthpiece is not a "magic pill" for your problems. All of those responses are spot on, and you should listen to them. However, I have played all of the Pomarico mouthpieces, so I will answer your question as best I can.
I played on the ruby, emerald, and diamond, with varying results. Some played a bit stuffy for me, other couldn't get the sound I wanted. I had significantly better experience with the Wizard model (I tried the 1.19 facing). It was far better for me, both in terms of overall sound, articulation, evenness, etc. As much as I liked it, there was just something not quite there for me - close, but not perfect. On a whim, I decided to try the Backun CG model (based on the Pomarico Wizard, with some tweaks). I wrote them and asked about the difference between the Wizard and their CG model, since they both had the 1.19 facing. They were very honest with me and said that if there was something lacking from the Wizard, that maybe the same thing would be lacking in their model, but that it did have a slightly different facing, and would play a bit differently than the Wizard. They offer a return policy, so I decided to go ahead and try it. I'm so glad I did - it had everything I loved about the Wizard, with none of the drawbacks.
It is probably my favorite mouthpiece I've ever played (because I'm old - 59 - and because I've been a fickle mouthpiece user, over the years I've played Borbeck, O'brien crystal, Hawkins, Backun, Vandoren). I really love everything about this mouthpiece. It's more expensive than the Pomarico Wizard, but very much worth it, IMO. Backun does have a trial policy - get a hold of them and see what they can do for you. backunmusical.com
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2016-11-02 17:33
Basic trouble shooting (testing) should be used to determine if the problem is the mouthpiece/Reed, player or instrument. Swap parts out with a colleague or teacher to see if the problem stays with the mouthpiece, instrument or player.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2016-11-02 19:59
I played a B45 in college, and while I loved it in general, I also had problems with the third register. I now play a closer, darker mouthpiece (Gennusa Exellente) and it's much easier.
An uncomfortable MP can make you do things to compensate which negatively affect your playing.
Except for the 5JB, the B45 has the most open tip Vandoren makes, and it is one of the most open pieces you can buy. It's not a "medium" mouthpiece.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: Ed
Date: 2016-11-02 20:46
These threads always make me think that it would be like asking- I know other people who run faster than me. I am not that fast.What kind of running shoes should I get?
The only way to know is to try some mouthpieces, whether new or borrowed. Use new reeds to try them rather than reeds that have settled in to a particular facing. I would also suggest getting a good private teacher to guide you through playing and the equipment labyrinth. Mouthpieces vary tremendously and are very personal. What one person uses and likes, does not necessarily work for another.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2016-11-03 00:41
I played a B45 many years ago and later switched to something a bit more closed, but it is a nice mouthpiece for some people. As others have pointed out, it is one of the most open tip mouthpieces in the Vandoren line.
The 3 1/2s might be a slight bit too hard for it, and it's possible that the V21s and V12s aren't the best matches either. It has been my experience that the B45 works best with slightly softer reeds in the 2 1/2 to 3 range. I remember trying to use 3 /2s and 4s on mine, and struggling the whole time.
Before you junk the mouthpiece, try some Vandoren Traditionals. I knew someone who loved his B45, and got nice results using no. 3 Traditionals with it.
Post Edited (2016-11-03 01:02)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-11-03 11:59
Looks like you live near Chicago, based on your email address. Why don't you spend some time and ask a few clarinet majors at Northwestern if you can take a few lessons. Why you may ask?
Because you are confused. You are getting great advice here. However the people getting accepted into Northwestern are some of the best young clarinet players in the country.
This will get rid of some confusion; you will find out more about reeds and mouthpieces, learning how to play the high notes and become not just a first chair player, but maybe a scary player that is one of the best in the country. The type of player where fellow students will fear you at auditions, if you decide to go into music.
I strongly feel taking weekly or bi-weekly lessons over at Northwestern would be really fun and I cannot begin to tell you how much you will learn, because you have to remember that these students are studying with members of the Chicago Symphony, one of the very best orchestra in the world. Surely in the top 4 or 5 in the world.
I would call the School of Music and ask whoever answers the phone how do you put up an index card asking for a college student teacher to help a high school student. Offer something low like $35 for a 1/2 hour lesson. Be willing to go up a bit in cost. If no one responds send me an email. I might have some connections for you.
Buy the mouthpiece if it means that much to you. As a mouthpiece designer I've played them and they are pretty good, but there are some much better ones made right there in Chicago by a member of the Chicago Sym. Again, send me a note and I'll provide some info. One thing about crystal mouthpieces is if you drop it you won't have to bother to pick it up, because it will bust up and crack! I've seen it happen several times! Kind of cool looking when they break, so buy a few.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-11-08 04:46
hmmm Wonder what he bought?
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-11-09 04:25
Quote:
These threads always make me think that it would be like asking- I know other people who run faster than me. I am not that fast.What kind of running shoes should I get? LOL! So true! I can't tell you how many times I've been asked for how to get into shape (while I'm here on this clarinet BBoard, I do actively participate on fitness boards and workout and am very strong and fit for my age), only to have them ask "What protein powder should I buy?" . . . Um . . . go to the gym, work hard and eat right? Oh. You just want a protein powder that will solve all your problems....ok.....
On the flipside, we grumble and complain, but as I start to gain some age and see these posts over and over again, you start to learn that there are just some people that you are NOT going sway away from their idea of a magic fix. So at this point in my life, and on this board, if I feel someone is stuck on an idea and I'm not going to sway them, I just respond with THAT idea, or don't respond at all.
This person's getting a crystal mouthpiece. It's gonna happen. And if they get a different mouthpiece, they're going to always wonder "what if I got that crystal mouthpiece"...
Alexi
PS - I get that way too. STILL looking forward to my Rossi cocobolo clarinet.....it's just a little more expensive than a Pomarico so I'm gonna have to wait a little bit longer....
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2016-11-09 04:34)
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Author: donald
Date: 2016-11-09 11:12
This reminds me of my ligature hunt (I promised to my wife that the last one I bought, the same as hers, would be the LAST ligature I ever bought...)
- after many years of experimentation I've come to the conclusion that the best ligature is the one you are playing on when you've done the most quality practice...
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-11-09 16:54
Hope springs eternal. I used to hope that when I got a Vandoren Diamond Perfecta, I would sound just like Louis Cahuzac (who played one). I tried a Kaspar 13, expecting to sound just like Robert Marcellus (who played one). When I was very young, I got a Pete Fountain crystal mouthpiece, knowing that over the mike, you wouln't be able to tell the difference between him and me. Got a MoBa much later, to make me sound just like Ricardo Morales.
Each time I felt the hard bite of reality. I always sounded just like me. But hope springs eternal, and I wonder on the next mouthpiece, just who I might be.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2016-11-09 19:13
Great to see some sense of reality being expressed on this board.
Common Sense is often in short supply.
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Author: Maddmatts
Date: 2016-11-12 20:20
In my experience with Pomarico's crystal mouthpieces: Get at least 2 of each kind you want to try. Pick the ones you want and return the rest.
I had ordered one of their newer black crystal Moons last year that played very well, but was nearly a microtone sharp. With a 66mm barrel I couldn't pull out enough without suffering throat-tone instability. On a hunch I lined it up with my other mpieces and immediately saw that the Moon was visibly shorter than the others. I ordered a 2nd one that ended up playing the same but with much better intonation.
Long story short; Pomarico does make some good stuff. But their quality control can let some major disappointment through.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-11-14 04:36
It's not always a quality control issue, as glass shrinks a lot when heated. I think the temp. to melt glass is 2000 degrees and much higher. You can be working with a 20 plus shrink rate, maybe higher I'm not positive how the mouthpieces are made. So this is why the 2 mouthpieces you experienced were different. For the record glass can melt around 1800 degrees. The quality of course varies as well as the amount of lead added, the sand and other mixtures.
The hard rubber I use only shrinks about 3 percent, so it is much easier to find 2 mouthpieces that play very close together to the point of driving you nuts, which one is better. Most likely it has to do this the room you are playing in.
So be happy with what you get!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2016-11-14 04:37)
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Author: JpCannavo
Date: 2016-12-31 15:51
Actually there is a more important issue here. And that is the lead content. As far as I know the lead content of pomarico crystal mouthpieces remains unclear. As a physician I can tell you, however, that this much is clear: leaded glass in the mouth of a young player (actually any age, but especially a younger player with a developing brain) is most definitely cause for concern. Interestingly, the few times this concern has been raised in other forums, there was a (predictable?) minimizing, medically uninformed and squelching response from various participants. Hopefully, this post will not set any of that off. But if it does, ignore (as will I) and simply do your own search around such terms as lead, health, IQ, crystal etc.
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2017-01-01 18:39
A related issue of concern is that older hard rubber contains lead compounds as stabilizers/enhancers of the cross-linking with sulfur.
These lead compounds make for the denser ( and accoustically superior in many aspects) older hard rubber.
The question of lead compounds in recreation of the older rubber is not explicitly addressed; as far as I can see.
To me, as a chemist, the lead compounds in hard rubber is much more dangerous since lead can leach much more easily compared to lead-containing crystal.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2017-01-01 22:34
ClaV, I was going to email you directly, but no address was listed.
Interesting comments about lead. Do the newer hard rubber mouthpieces have less lead in them?
Are there any unhealthy components in acrylic mouthpieces that could leach out?
Just curious...
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2017-01-01 23:53
In the modern hard rubber, to the best of my knowledge, lead is not so commonly used. It is typically replaced by zinc and/or other metals, which are needed for sulfur crosslinking to work efficiently.
Though lead being the easiest and cheapest to use should be a concern for unknown hard rubber.
For the original rubber ( and hard rubber), lead oxide was the key ingredient.
In this regard, the thesis of Tom Ridenour about hard rubber being a "natural" material should be strongly contested, in my opinion.
With the information not readily available for the recreation of the older hard rubber, I would keep it in mind as a general concern.
Acrylic should not have specific strong concerns, in general. Though different additives (and every manufacturer can use different chemicals as fillers and stabilizers) can be toxic.
The best ideal policy would be to use food-grade FDA-approved plastics.
I will send you my e-mail if you have more specific questions.
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Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-01-02 02:30
Wow, interesting thread.
It is a hard place to be in life when you don't know if the problem is you or your equipment.
And while the crystal may not have been the answer, it may be that her/his clarinet mpc was chipped or something. So any professional mouthpiece would be an improvement on it. I do have some student mouthpieces which just don't won't play altissimo in tune.......
When I went to buy mouthpieces i had in mind i wanted to try pomerico, vandoren and jody jazz, thinking the jody jazz was the one I wanted because of all the great reviews. Turns out... it really wasn't my sound when i played. they didn't have pomerico's in stock, so i figured that any professional mouthpiece was going to be better than my stock armstrong one. And I have been very happy with the vandoren, and haven't considered going for the pomerico again.
I must say I was less successful for with equipment hunt when it came to the clarinet. The brands I wanted to try were not housed in the same shop (yamaha, amati, buffet and ridenour). And i would have to fly interstate to try the ridenours. So ended up visiting 3 shops... and ending up with a clarinet that really has been a constant headache to me (Amati...mechanism rattling, weight too heavy for me, resistance too high and hence not enjoyable for me to play, intonation is pretty good, and tone is lovely though).
I had never considered the lead content of different substances. interesting thought.
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2017-01-02 03:16
Different Vandoren mouthpieces vary greatly to accomodate most preferences.
A big problem of trying mouthpieces, in my opinion, is that it is a reed-mouthpiece combination that should work right ( often even a barrel can be a factor) and not just the mouthpiece alone.
Your "dream sound" mouthpiece may be unplayable with your current reeds, and it is not very realistic to have well-adjusted reeds of all sizes and test them carefully.
That is why it may be easy (and often advised) to start with a good midroad mouthpiece, like Vandoren 5RV or 5RV lyre and work out your best reeds and playing technique slowly. Vandoren M13 and M13 Lyre are also commonly recommended as a starting better mouthpiece.
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Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-01-02 03:35
I guess my point was a nice mouthpiece is a nice mouthpiece. Get a b45 or 5rv they are safe bets. You adjust to the mouthpiece u get basically. I prefer a b45 but can adjust to either within a week or two
Rather than the endless equipment hunt
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Author: Albert Nemiroff
Date: 2019-06-18 02:02
I read most of the responses and scanned others. Over many years I acquired mouthpieces from legit to wide open both hard rubber and crystal, and went for a time to very hard reeds for power and purity based on published opinions. It is only recently I can play them all without those periods of singing, stuffy or buzzy. There are two issues I may have missed seeing. The mouthpiece requires a reed balanced for it - at the time of playing. Intonation requires voicing, throughout playing to be in tune. Reaching the altissimo register requires a change in the air stream, typically raising the tongue. Other useful items in relation are practicing harmonics over the range of the clarinet, long tones, embouchure stabilization, etc.
The opera clarinetist's close tip/ hard reed set up can be heard in the last row of the theater without reinforcement, as does the jazz clarinetist band leader with a wide open mouthpiece with a much softer reed. There are many combinations of setup that work. A teacher will make these and many more happen as you are ready.
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Author: BethGraham
Date: 2019-06-18 15:32
Totally OT, but I've got to say it: I love this board.
(And, yes, I've got a Backun barrel wending its way to me as I type this that will, I'm sure, make me sound as though I've got years of lessons under my belt, not just a few months!)
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Author: EbClarinet
Date: 2019-06-20 05:47
I used 2 want the Pomarico mouthpieces because of the novelty of them. I never did get 1 but I'm a fan of the Pyne crystal mouthpiece. I bought a Pyne mouthpiece for my Bb for $55 in college. It took me years to get used to it but it helped me not playing sharp. I had an HS Star for high school, at the suggestion of my trombone, band director. It helped me get a good tone quality for high school but my clarinet professor changed me because it played sharp 2 much. I would suggest trying these mouthpieces for intonation in all registers and see if it's a good fit 4 u. If it's not then find the right mouthpiece for you. I have a Pyne crystal mouthpiece on my C Clarinet and I have a professional tone due to my setup and years of experience.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/mbtldsongministry/
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2019-06-20 15:38
I have a older customer selling a Pomarico mouthpiece refaced by Jerry Hall if anyone is interested.
Steve Ocone
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