 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-07-09 08:48
Well it's time to blow off some steam and attack Buffet. Hopefully they will get some comments about this! You fellow friends know me well and I don't say much, on here other than to give out the very best advice I can. Sometimes I ask for advice as well. This time I have a major problem with Buffet. Enjoy the story...
I bought a set of horns, R13's from RDG Woodwinds and Nancy, the owner, was very nice and friendly, and very professional! A great place here in Los Angeles. I very much like Nancy. She's great! By the way, these NEW R13 horns leaked like crazy! It was hard to pick out a really good horn, because the pads didn't hold a seal. Levy is a nice guy there, but he didn't really fix the leaks. I gave up and repaired the horns myself. A reminder that I spent a summer with Hans Moennig in Philly learning the real way to master clarinet repairing. With my horns they will hold a seal for minutes, not 3 seconds by Levy's work or zero seconds by the Buffet techs.
The double Buffet case is flawed bending the lower register low F middle C key of the Bb clarinet only. The A clarinet is just fine. So every time I went to orchestra rehearsals I'd carry 2 cases. I called my friend Nancy about 3 times leaving her a message on her direct line, she never called me back. (RDG Woodwinds) Strange... I thought Nancy and I were friends? Guess not anymore! I called the Buffet NYC showroom and the lady gave me the California Buffet Sales Rep Michael Wallace, (805) 212-0493 email is michael.wallace@buffetcrampon.com, just in case anyone wants to chat with him! He lives about 5 to 10 minutes from me. I called him 6 times, he never called me back, so I sent him an email and he also never responded. By the way, the lady at the NYC Show Room told me that this has happened a few times before with Buffet cases and she recommended some other cases like the Marcus Bonna.
I called Buffet in Florida about 6 times and it went to the general mailbox. Here's Buffet's number, just in case you have questions, issues, or you just feel like saying hello to someone there. ((904) 821-0234 or the tech dept number is (904) 652-2203. They don't usually pick up, but say hello and tell all of them that Bob says Hi! I'm sure they know my name by now. Finally, a few days ago, A person named Cliff picked up the phone at the Florida Buffet, so I told him what my problem was. He said that the Buffet cases are NOT under any warranty, ever, even when NEW! So I asked him what happens if the key that keeps bending and finally breaks. Is the horn covered? He said YES! Well I said that this doesn't make sense! Wouldn't Buffet rather replace a case than for me sending in the Bb clarinet after every orchestra rehearsal! He said he would talk to his tech department and he would call RDG Woodwinds. Never heard back from Cliff, the tech dept, RDG or anyone. Here's the interesting part I was always cool. Never raised my voice, never said anything bad or mean, just being a good guy!
Today I bought a Marcus Bonna case from my favorite store in Maryland called Chuck Levins Washington Music Center, the place I bought all of my music stuff from when attending Interlochen Arts Academy and Peabody Conservatory. They have an internet store called reverbs.com I got the case for $423, same case that RDG Woodwinds was asking $515 plus tax for, so about about $575. Free shipping with Washington Music Center.
This case is cool. The keys are never touched by the case. Just go to Home Depot or a place like that and buy plastic PVC caps that will fit over the cork on the joints, so you don't get cork grease all over the case.
I hate to say it, but I just might sell my clarinets and go with another company. Just because no one cares! I'll talk to my friends with the Chicago Sym and see what Steve thinks about the Selmer Signatures and what John Yeh thinks about the new Yamaha's. Maybe they can personally pick out a set for me to go nicely with my new case!
I think Buffet just lost a client. I've been with them since 1969.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2016-07-09 10:32
That's quite a story. Also well-written and easy to read, so thanks for that! I've had similar frustrations with a couple of mouthpiece makers whose work I really respect but finally had to let go of dealing with. I will NOT be naming them here.
Best wishes for ultimately finding satisfaction. I'm particularly disappointed to hear of your issues with RDG. They've always been very helpful when I've dealt with them, but it's always been in person and not that often. It's hard to say why some people can't maintain a level of professionalism and accountability that should be a matter of course.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2016-07-09 10:56
That's odd that Levi wasn't able to get your clarinet to hold a seal. He worked on both of my clarinets back in January and they both seem to seal just fine now, plus he made the keys fit much better, with no wobbling.
When I went to the NYC showroom last summer to pick out my Bb clarinet (an R13 Prestige), I did find that many of the R13s didn't seal well, and one was basically unplayable. It's surprising that Buffet would allow instruments like that in their own showroom. The Prestige was in good shape though, and was by far the best instrument I tried there; even better after Levi worked on it (I purchased the instrument through RDG.)
I have a Protec double case and haven't had any problems with keys bending.
Post Edited (2016-07-09 11:33)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-07-09 11:56
Maybe Levi doesn't get anything, money wise from Buffet, or RDG, so his heart really isn't into making perfect sealed repairs, just enough to have these new R13 horns play. As I posted above, I like RDG a lot! I like Levi and Nancy. If Levi isn't making any money getting these new horns to play at a pro level, well we have to put the blame back on Buffet. He surely can't work for free! They, Buffet, really doesn't seem to care about making people happy. So many people are jumping ship. David Shifrin is now with Backun after maybe 30 plus years with Buffet. I don't think that any of the Philly Orchestra players are with Buffet anymore. I'm not sure about the latest hired player. Although I won't ever spend $28,000 on a set of Backun horns he's now getting into price ranges from about $1500 for a plastic horn up to meet everyone's budget. A very smart move.
Thanks for the posts. I'm really glad to hear that the R13 poor quality control isn't just me, but others are experiencing the same problems. That's really wild that a showroom instrument didn't play.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2016-07-09 12:56
It should be easy to lift the lining and trim the (presumably) wood underneath to make space for the key. I've done it for example to accommodate an old Buffet with a wraparound register key.
If you're hesitant to do it yourself, any luggage repair service could fix it. See also Fred Jacobowitz's service Case Closed http://case-closed.us/ccwho.html and http://www.jlsmithco.com/case-repair.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2016-07-09 14:42
I have also seen many manufacturing defects on golden era R13's from the late 1950's to the middle 1970's. One such defect which is very common is that they do not cut the center male tenon deep enough and as a result there is a large amount of joint wobble.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-07-09 17:10
It's not the length of the tenon that's the problem - the middle tenon is limited to how long it can be due to the depth of the socket and especially due to the location of the C/G tonehole on the lower joint which limits the depth of the socket. It's more down to the diameter of the tenon being a bit too narrow compared to the diameter of the socket and also Buffet tenons and sockets are very slightly tapered. Worse still on Prestiges as the metal tenon cap is too narrow to be of any use to stabilise the tenon in the socket. If the upper tenon ring is also too narrow, then the joints will rock.
It can be corrected by building up the tenon rings (with superglue and wood dust) or fitting an entire tenon sleeve at worst, then machine the now oversize tenon down to fit the socket precisely before the tenon cork has even been fitted. Also making the upper tenon ring longer by around 1mm will ensure a much more solid fit.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-07-09 17:13
I know a player with an RC Prestige from the early '80s and the keys on that are as soft as butter, so the RH F/C touch is constantly bending which puts it out of regulation on a regular basis.
The F/C touchpiece being the culprit due to the length of the touchpiece arm that angles round to join the key barrel - with such a long overhang to clear the Ab/Eb key and how thin the metal is due to the cut-out on the underside, it bends just by looking at it.
Only earlier on this week his RC Prestige took a tumble at the end of a rehearsal while packing up and all the RH keys were either put out of regulation or the pad cups had bent so the pads no longer seated, so I straightened it all out for him at no charge as I had very recently serviced it. Even though it was accidental damage which would normally command a minimum charge, I didn't feel it was right in this instance and it only took about an hour to sort out. Besides, I get a lot of work passed onto me through him.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2016-07-10 03:52)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-07-09 18:07
I've studied the case, trying to figure out a way to solve this. All of you have really great ideas and this key is VERY weak. Thus the reason for going with a new case, where they keys are never touched. The metal is way too soft. Another Buffet mistake. Perhaps this is why no one ever called me back. Who knows.
The case looks perfect. In mint condition, so I don't want to tear it apart. I'm not sure what to do with it, but it may work great with other clarinets with harder metal keys. Buffet lists this case as costing $575 new. I surely can't throw it away.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: James S
Date: 2016-07-09 22:10
I would sell the set and spend Clarinetfest horn-hunting. Shoot me an email at sullivanclarinet@gmail.com and we can meet up at the festival!
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2016-07-09 22:23
Chris,
My remedy has been to create a tenon sleeve using a block of grenadilla wood and a lathe and fitting it perfectly before putting cork on. Superb results.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-07-10 01:36
I've even sleeved a middle tenon entirely with plastic as was done on Selmer Prologues (not to be confused with Preludes or Privileges), so it can be made to fit the tenon very snugly but won't bind as can happen with wood against wood. Selmer Privilege have a metal sleeved tenon and metal lined socket as you'd see on Howarth XL and other top model oboes, so a metal-on-metal fit (like a tuning slide) to ensure stability and the tenon cork serves as a gasket.
I've never been impressed with the quality of finish on Buffet clarinets and especially can't stand those point screws they've been using with the plastic collar just by the screw head to lock them in place. The problem with that design is there's only a couple or so turns of thread in the pillars to accommodate the extra depth needed for the plastic collar, so the threads can easily be stripped if over torqued.
I see a lot of bad ideas being used by the long standing and once pioneering companies - it seems as since they were there at the beginning, set a standard and made a name for themselves, they can rest on their laurels and get away doing what they want knowing people are suckers for the most popular brand names as that's what 'everyone else plays'.
Personally I use Yamaha double cases for my clarinets as the cases Buffet and Selmer offer leave a lot to be desired.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-07-10 01:56
Yes, new Buffets often don't seal well. But they have a minimum selling price. I have done work on new Buffets for Lisa's Clarinet Shop (most of the work set-up is done by another repair shop). She spends quite a bit to service the clarinets and still makes a profit. I imagine there is a great variation in what other sellers do.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Wes
Date: 2016-07-10 02:07
Of the four new Buffet clarinets I've bought in recent years, the three R13s all had poor pads, so I immediately repadded and adjusted them. One was picked from a dozen at the Buffet facility with the help of Mr. Kloc. All three play well.
An R13 Prestige had Gortex pads which seem to be ok, but I may prefer double skin and cork pads. The R13 Prestige needed some adjustments for my preference and the Eb/Ab key had to be shortened, but it tunes well and plays well. Even the low E and F are ok in tuning.
A Loree AK oboe I bought new from RDG in 2005 has been playing well with some normal maintenance, which I do. It was set up well there and got a free post sale check and adjustment. I think they did some post factory sealing of the wood near the tone holes.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-07-10 02:19
James, I'll send you an email.
When I'm at the clarifest I kind of need the Bb for making putting facings on the mouthpieces. I'll have the real actual Kasper MP's there and I'm not sure about the La Vecchia MP's. I'm out of stock, these are a lot like the Chedeville's. I'm making a new mold, thus the reason for not making any Gennusa/Wright Cheds right now. The old mold is worn out. I've had it since 1983.
At the end of the show I'm not opposed to letting the horns go. They were hand selected and the upper registers have very soft cork pads on them. So I will be bringing 2 cases, both Buffet cases, like new, the double case and the Bb case. I'll decide before the show if I want to keep the horns. I have some horns coming in from other companies to try out. If I keep my Buffet horns the cases will surely go. Any offer within reason, which means a penny above free <laughing> will be accepted. Bob
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Ed
Date: 2016-07-10 02:45
I have been amazed at how many of the new Buffets, even in the NY showroom do not seal. I don't understand why this is not a high priority. I guess they still sell.
Years ago I tried a number of Yamahas at a local shop that were right out of the box. (I opened the box myself) They sealed great and were well regulate and I could have taken them on a gig as is.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-07-10 02:51
James, I'll send you an email.
When I'm at the clarifest I kind of need the Bb for making putting facings on the mouthpieces. I'll have the real actual Kasper MP's there and I'm not sure about the La Vecchia MP's. I'm out of stock, these are a lot like the Chedeville's. I'm making a new mold, thus the reason for not making any Gennusa/Wright Cheds right now. The old mold is worn out. I've had it since 1983.
At the end of the show I'm not opposed to letting the horns go. They were hand selected and the upper registers have very soft cork pads on them. So I will be bringing 2 cases, both Buffet cases, like new, the double case and the Bb case. I'll decide before the show if I want to keep the horns. I have some horns coming in from other companies to try out. If I keep my Buffet horns the cases will surely go. Any offer within reason, which means a penny above free <laughing> will be accepted. Bob
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-07-10 03:39
I can think of any number of reasons why adjustments wouldn't be a high priority for a music shop on the best selling brand and model of clarinets that will literally sell just because some teacher said to their student "buy a buffet r13".
From a business standpoint, you'd be better served saving your repair man for repairs on other horns and let those r13s fly off the shelves on their own name......ok......maybe "fly" off the shelves isn't the best terminology to use here, but compared to other makes and models of clarinets, I think you get it.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-07-10 05:52
Bob--I can't seem to find if you shared this in the thread or want to.
Which model of Buffet double case did you have the problems with?
Pochette, Attache, something else
...just curious...
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-07-10 11:18
Hi WhitePlains Dave, this is the EXACT case -
http://shop.weinermusic.com/BUFFET-DOUBLE-LEATHER-CLARINET-CASE-BC6722L/productinfo/CB1DP/
Needless to say this cost is a bit high. Most music stores sell this case in the mid to high $500's I guess. I never bought just a case before.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2016-07-10 11:24)
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2016-07-10 12:22
Seems to me that the blame on the lack of final adjustments on new Buffet clarinets lies with the Buffet workers that do the final adjustments at the factory in France. I know that if I had that job due to the prestigious name Buffet Crampon alone I would take personal pride and adjust every clarinet to perfection by pretending that I was doing it for myself.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-07-10 12:43
If a premium product has chosen to cut corners (ie. using peel-n-stick synthetic key 'corks'), then there's something seriously amiss. I've seen B12s better finished and set up than some Prestiges.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-07-10 17:13
I know that in the late 1960's and the 1970's the R13's were fine. The first thing you have to do now after buying a set for $maybe $7500 to $8000, depending if they are silver, is spend $400 or more and have these NEW clarinets fixed by a good repairman. Thankfully I do my own repairs. Even Mitchell Lurie bitched about this when picking out horns for his students. His students had to play on the very best horns. That's why he was such a respected musician and a fine teacher.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-07-10 17:29
The problem with the new Buffets isn't always the pads. I have taken new Buffet clarinets and worked on the tone holes instead of changing the pads to get the seal to a "respectable" level. I could have put a softer pad in as well or spent a lot of time getting a bladder pad to work. By doing the tone hole work first, any pad I put in in the future will be easier to put in and seal better.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-07-10 19:12
Why they insist on having toneholes with razor edged crowns to the bedplaces that punch the centres from pads is anyone's guess. As long as the toneholes are level and have a blemish-free and a more pad-friendly crown to them, then that's all you need for pads to seat and seal successfully on them. I have yet to see a single Buffet that doesn't need tonehole work to fill in imperfections and level them.
If I was a Buffet dealer, I'd strip down and rebuild every single instrument of theirs before selling them. Some companies in the UK used to do that in the last century.
When the Tosca was their top model, I was appalled at the build quality when I serviced one that was barely a year old as I felt there were too many problems with it to warrant the high pricetag. And then there was the case...
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2016-07-11 03:36)
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2016-07-10 20:26
It is getting very hard to get Buffet to respond to any phone call or email. I yearn for the days when Laurie Innocenzi worked there. She was great. Joe followed and was also good to deal with. I enjoyed speaking with him on the phone and our email conversations. Parts were easy to get. Now, no one will return a call or answer an email. I was trying to get a key for an instrument this past week and never got a response. I finally fabricated one from parts I had around the shop. It probably turned out best for everyone as it took far less time than trying to get the part.
jbutler
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-07-11 03:17
Wow, I thought perhaps this was just because I was considered a "Nobody Famous," type of situation. I've learned a lot from the tone holes to even the poor Tosca quality.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2016-07-11 08:42)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-07-11 21:21
Attachment: reinforcednylonpins 001.JPG (208k)
Seems to be an ongoing thing in the US with getting parts for Buffets - I was in Portsmouth VA back in 2007 and a music shop with repair facilities just outside said they were having to wait for ages to not get any parts sent to them.
You're probably better off ordering the parts from the UK as they seem to be readily available here. I've had a small bag of nylon pins that have lasted me around fifteen years now, only because I have to replace some broken ones but have gone for a more preventative measure of reinforcing them with 0.9mm steel (needle spring - see attachment) so they won't break instead of replacing ones that are already installed. Thumbrest parts are the other things that are regularly needed due to the weak design, but again they're available off the shelf here or the other option is fit a Yamaha style one made from brass or nickel silver instead of a weak zinc casting.
But I wish they'd beef up the RH F/C touchpiece so it's not so bendy.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Greg H
Date: 2016-07-13 11:18
Well Bob, I have to respond to your email regarding your Buffet clarinet purchase and service at RDG woodwinds in Los Angeles. I'm curious if you knew that RDG has a 2 year warranty on new Buffet clarinets they sell and that includes servicing. How along ago did you purchase the clarinets in question? It is my experience that one has to make an appointment to get the follow up service, as the repair staff is booked in advance. As far as the clarinets leaking when you tried them at RDG, how could you make a decision if they were leaking? It is my understanding that new clarinets are checked before being put into stock for trial; but that more serious adjusting and set-up happens at the follow-up service. Levi Tracy is more than a nice guy, in my opinion he is a very skilled clarinet technician, as well as a very skilled machinist who regularly makes keywork and mechanisms from scratch. He is quite booked up for appointments months in advance, and that would be locally as well as out of town clients. Clients from major symphonies as well as freelancers and I'm sure quite a few non-pro's as well. He must be doing something right as several colleagues of mine are in line to get a set-up on their Buffet 1193 basses, one of the better finished instruments from Buffet. In regard to calls not returned from RDG's owner, were those calls recent? She travels to conventions and conferences during the year to display double reed products and instruments, and I'm sure she takes an occasional vacation. Maybe an email would get thru to her.
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Author: donald
Date: 2016-07-13 16:09
I've owned 3 buffet cases exactly like the one in the picture above and never had any troubles with bent keys, and have never heard any such complaints from my friends and colleagues. I can pass no judgement on YOUR case, it may very well have bent the key you describe, but I can easily imagine RDG and Buffet wanting to dodge dealing with your call (not forgiving this behaviour of course).
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-07-13 23:53
Greg H - I left several messages over a period of time with Nancy. I did not email her.
I know that Levi is booked months in advanced, this is probably why he really didn't want to fix the horns properly, just make them passable. As my post stated he's a good guy and he probably doesn't make a penny from Buffet nor RDG for fixing new clarinets, so why work for free! I actually made 2 appointments and I know that the horns are under warranty; but the cases are NOT. At this point I did the repairs myself as I studied with Hans Moennig. I hate repairing. This is why I don't have a repair shop. I hate refacing mouthpieces, I rather make them. I tried teaching at a college level and after 6 mouths I had to leave. Again, it wasn't in my blood, I hated it. But I'm still a very decent musician.
Maybe I'm just a "Nobody," in their eyes, not famous enough for people to bother with me. I don't know the answer Greg. That part is surely true. I don't sit in a major symphony, teach in a famous music school, I can't play like Julian Bliss, but I have made a very good living in music since getting out of college. We have to look at the over posts above. I'm not the only one that has had issues. I must repeat this. Levi can't work for free. I've already stated this. He only spent maybe 3 hours max on both horns, we all know you can't repair leaking horns in 3 hours. You have to carefully read what I wrote, I did not say Levi was a horrible repairman. From the first post to this post I said he can't work for free and he was a great guy, we got along great, and I wouldn't mind hanging around with him outside of work, he's that nice, but we live about an hour or so away. Kindly read my posts carefully.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2016-07-14 00:48)
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Author: Francois Kloc
Date: 2016-07-18 08:23
Good evening,
I am sorry to read that it is hard to get answers from us. Please let me know who you spoke to and when.
Thank you,
Francois Kloc
President & CEO
Buffet Crampon USA, Inc.
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Author: Francois Kloc
Date: 2016-07-18 08:34
Bob, Chris and everyone else,
First let me address the comments about workers at the factory. I have been at the bench and worked alongside these great people. They DO take pride in what they do and always strive to be better as we all do in whatever we choose to do in our lives.
If someone in my staff has not returned calls or emails, I apologize and as soon as I know the exact situation and who it was I will take care of it. So please send me an e mail at francois.kloc@buffetcrampon.com (I receive many e mails and am traveling extensively so I may not respond right away but I will).
Some companies may behave on a "you have to be someone to get attention", I can assure you that under my Leadership, this is not and has not been the case. It is sad to read that you feel you do not get things because you think you are a "nobody". You obviously have made a career and should be proud of it. Again, if someone made you feel that way at Buffet Crampon USA I need to know.
I will be in Lawrence for clarinetFest if you are coming I will be happy to visit with you.
Best Regards,
Francois Kloc
President & CEO
Buffet Crampon USA, Inc.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-07-18 15:01
WOW! Someone answered from Buffet! Thank you in advance. I'm shocked. As you can see I'm not the only one here that's angry. So angry that I'm walking away from Buffet. Three months ago you lost one of the finest clarinetists in the world. David Shifrin. I don't think anyone in the Philadelphia Orchestra are using Buffets. To my knowledge only one player remains with the Chicago Sym. This list is growing.
I won't email you. I'm done with that. All of the exact information is written above. So read it! Here is a short recap just for you.
I called the 904 821-0234 number a mess of times and left messages, because no one picks up the phone in Florida. Finally Cliff picked up the phone about 3 weeks ago; one day and he said that he transfers the messages to the required departments and needless to say no one ever called me back. Cliff told me that the double case is NOT under warranty, even when NEW. So the key is. If the key breaks from me adjusting it a lot and I send the horn back to you well the key gets fixed and a few months later the key breaks again, because of the dam case! I asked Cliff what to do. He tried to transfer me to the tech dept at 904 652-2203, and of course no one picked up. I called a few times and no one picked up. What a surprise.
I called the NYC Buffet show room and the lady there said that they've had a few issues with the cases and recommended buying a different brand. She also gave me Michael Wallace's phone number and email address. Guess what, we live close by. and yes after several calls on his cell going to voice mail he never called me back. Cliff said he'd call Nancy at RDG. Never heard back from Cliff nor Nancy and I did call Nancy about 6 times. Since everyone got my $7500 who cares about Bob, he isn't famous! Hmmm Maybe he is! He has a lot of friends coast to coast, from the Boston Sym to the LA Philharmonic.
So my good friend John Bruce Yeh with the Chicago Sym, set me up with Yamaha. Let's see how that goes next week. I won't allow any company to give me anything for free. If I like the Yamaha's I'll buy them, or I may buy a Selmer, or the Wurltzer reformed. I have plenty of money. John Yeh has been with the Chicago Sym since he was just 19 years old in 1977. He's starting his 40th season. John may test 2 or 3 horns. With Buffet it's like findin that perfect reed. Testing 20 clarinets is common.
Below is a young talented kid playing on a Yamaha clarinet. This is your new competition. This may be my new set of horns. This is kind of how the old Buffets sounded, but the old Buffets were even better. Enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2Uz_Syj2zg
I'm not sure what to do Mr. Kloc. Your company looks to be in trouble. When the pads on EVERY horn don't seal it's hard to pick out a great horn. After spending $7500 on new horns which really don't play, I had to re-pad them myself. Thanks to studying with Hans Moennig. By the way the Moennig barrels don't work with the R13 horns. The bores are wrong and if Moennig was alive today he would redesign them and swear a lot in German. He liked me, but he was a small scary man. He had no problems with throwing out clients that needed repairs done. When using the Moennig barrels there are a lot of dead flat notes on both horns, mainly the upper joint. You should know this. Why are you selling Moennig barrels that make your horns worse? Why are you putting in a $5 plastic mouthpieces with a 2 strength reed in a professional horn? Why do the horns mainly tune to 440, when pretty much all of the orchestras and bands tune to 441 and higher. Why do the 64mm barrels cause so many flat notes above high C? High F and G are way flat.
I cannot accept this false comment that your employees care. Why does every horn leak? After I repaired your defective horns I got the horns to seal for at least 1 minute. It's not hard. I'm not a repairman. Your guys do this everyday, 8 hours a day! Whats going on in Florida? They should be able to seal a leak blindfolded.
Here's something to really think about. Since Bob Marcellus, Harold Wright and Iggie Gennusa have died why hasn't any player been able to get that sweet sound that these guys got? Here's a clue. Bob played on very old Buffets, older than the R13's for most of his career, Iggie and Harold both used horns from the mid 1960's or earlier. Buffet changed the bores. Why? I didn't know Harold Wright, but I smoked a few cigars and sipped bourbon with Bob, and studied with Iggie for 7 or 8 years ate lunch and dinner at his house and sipped vodka with him.
Email me if you wish at savagesax@aol.com I'll try to help out your company, but you need to go back to small bores and get those great Buffet sounds back. I just gave you one huge hint and I hope you move on it. Stop making new horns like the Divine and go back to basics. First learn how to seal a pad and then make the bores small again. Hans had to undercut a lot of holes to tune the R13's correctly. When he was done people like Wright and Iggie made you stop in your tracks. You couldn't believe how special that Buffet sound was.
I really have no interest with "Visiting," you at the Clarinetfest. It was a kind offer. We are WAY past that point. I will be working. Solving the issue is me leaving Buffet which I've trusted for 47 years.
I already bought a Marcus Bonna case. My first big step for getting ready for the Copland and the Mozart Concerto live recordings this winter on PBS TV. One time I played a concert under Copland and during lunch he told me that the concerto should be played with a jazz feel. Players try to play it as fast as possible. Well I'm playing it the way he wanted it. With a jazz feel and not too fast. He wrote it in the 1920's so that's the jazz feel he will get.
I wish you and Buffet the very best. It's close to 4 AM, I've spent enough time chatting and visiting with you.
Bob
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Francois Kloc
Date: 2016-07-18 19:09
I am on my way to Japan and will look into all this when I return.
Few rectifications: we did not lose David Shiffrin 3 month ago, he has not be playing Buffet Crampon for much longer than that , I would say a year at least ( and he always had his Yamaha as well)
For Philadelphia Mr Sam Caviezel is playing Buffey Crampon as for Chicago, I was last week with Lawrie Bloom (I checked and he is still
Playing BC and Gregory Smith is as well).
I am not disputing the fact that some artists chose to play some other brands from time to time. We do have also artists who are leaving other companies to play Buffet Crampon, this is the way the business is and it is perfect like this.
I cannot stop and say hi ? I have as many friends Clarinetist who are not playing Buffet as I have who are. There is no need to be angry. Now if you do not want to see me just to chat then I have enough things to do.
Thank you,
Francois Kloc
President & CEO
Buffet Crampon USA, Inc.
Post Edited (2016-07-19 07:32)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-07-18 21:56
Have a good trip a safe trip to Japan. Yes I care!
I don't think you get it. No, I want to play Buffet, and I also offered to help you and Buffet out. Read carefully. Notice I didn't ask for any money. I believe in Buffet. It doesn't matter if just one person left Buffet, as the CEO I'd want to make it right. It doesn't matter if David left last week or 5 years ago. He left Buffet.
The offer still stands. I'd be happy to help out Buffet. The reasons for leaving Buffet was simple. Not a single person called me. I checked my emails this morning and and you didn't send an email nor your phone number. So I'm still stuck in this crazy loop of no one really caring about their clients. You have my name, plenty of information, I'm in the phone book, people call me everyday to order mouthpieces and reeds, so just a phone call or a direct email would have been great. I had to write something on a worldwide clarinet board to get your attention and even then I did not get a phone call or an email before you wrote on this board. You see I am a good guy. I would have said that you personally contacted me on this board. But I can't... I would have loved to write on here that Buffet cares and the CEO of the great Buffet company called me, but I can't...
As I also said, money is not an issue for me. If Buffet would have fixed the problems I wouldn't be looking for new horns and if Buffet wants my help I'm a phone call away.
What else can I do? Sure, stop by and say hello, but no extended visiting if people are around the booth and if you want to have a true business meeting after hours or visit for an extended time I will be happy to arrange something.
My goal is to make clarinet playing fun.
When you are serious call me or email me, I won't respond to you on this site again, just to protect your name and make like Buffet cares. I have one on the finest sounds in the country. I'm a reed expert and a mouthpiece expert. I hate repairing but I'm also good at that too. Take advantage of my offer. Let this board know that you really do care. As far as mouthpieces I will design a special mouthpiece just for your Buffet clarinets and at cost. Players will like them so much they will want to order spares. These won't be handmade, surely adjusted if needed and they will be amazing and help your horns to tune to 441 to 442.
B
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2016-07-19 00:18)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-07-24 21:13
Just a short update, I did get a short email from Michael Wallace, actually 2, the California rep for Buffet. Nothing yet has been done. Never heard back from the CEO Kloc.
I've tried several horns now. The Buffet's are warmer sounding, the Yamaha's surprised me the most, they play right out of the box, everyone sounds great, but not as warm, so I may look around for a barrel.
Any suggestions to warm up the Yamaha's with a barrel? Oh, I haven't sold the Buffet's yet.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-07-24 22:01
Bob,
Which models of Yamaha did you try? CSGII, SEV, SEV Artist? Other?
CSGs usually have a very warm sound, and the SEVs are very focused and concentrated, even at pianissimo. Clark Fobes has some good barrels for certain Yamaha models. I'd contact him. Some of the SEVs have a ring in the sound similar to good Buffets.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-07-25 04:01
Hi seabreeze, the CVS2R
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Francois Kloc
Date: 2016-07-26 10:38
Bob,
You have not heard back from me? I thought I did respond to your email mail. FYI as I mentioned in a prior post, just came back to the US from Japan Saturday (Sunday morning), had a full day interviewing people yesterday, and I am now up (2:26 am) to get ready as I board a plane in few hours to go to Boston for the day. I will be back tonight and will be at the office until the end of the week.
I know that you are probably not interested in my schedule and travel habits but there is so many hours I can spend on the BOARD. Sorry!
And BTW, I still had a meeting with Laurie Britt (Innocenzi) who is now my warehouse manager and is in charge of the parts and warranty department to make her aware of the situation and she is looking into it and will sit down with her team so she can give me answers. Give me a little time to gather informations and get back to my office.
As far as you clarinet mouthpiece making offer, (from your last email), I will be happy to see you at ICA (as mentioned several times already) and learn more about them. One thing I can tell you is that we have made the decision as a company not to offer a mouthpiece on our Pro clarinets and instead upgrade the ligatures we put in the case as clarinetist who purchase that level of clarinets already own a mouthpiece they have carefully chosen and that is part of their "voice".
I will send an email as soon as I have all the information on what happened on our side and I can intelligently answer your questions,
Thank you,
Francois Kloc
President & CEO
Buffet Crampon USA, Inc.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-07-26 20:54
Hello Francois,
Please send an email to savagesax@aol.com. I did not hear from you. I understand late hours very well. I have sleep issues and often I never get any sleep at all. I average about 3 hours a night. Have a safe trip. Emails right now are kind of screwed up because of the SAND fire which is just a few miles from where I live. We've lost power several times, 1600 homes have been lost and around 60 sq miles of land has been burnt. Thankfully it's heading south. If it went north just a few miles we would have been in trouble. That's about 1000 acres per hour. Now we need the fire to change direction and head north because nothing is left to burn and the fire will burn itself out.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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The Clarinet Pages
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