 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: as9934
Date: 2016-07-01 00:23
Hello,
In August I will be starting college at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Although I'm not going to be majoring in Music, I will be taking clarinet lessons with the professor there and I'm wondering if I need a better clarinet than what I have now. I currently play on a 1970s Buffet E11 which I have always found to be very good, although without using my proper mouthpiece or barrel it runs a bit sharp. But when the clarinet professor from Western Carolina looked at it a couple months ago she said that the low E and the middle B were so out of tune that I should just buy a new clarinet. None of the other professional clarinetists I have worked with have said anything about this when they have tried my clarinet and I have never really had a problem with these notes, so I kind of question her judgment. But since I am going off to college I figure it might be a good time to get a better instrument. If I was to get a new clarinet, I would probably want to buy a used entry level professional clarinet preferably for only about $100 more than what I could sell my E11 for (roughly $700). From trolling eBay I have found quite a few options in my price bracket ($200-999) including the:
Yamaha YCL-34
Yamaha YCL-450
Yamaha YCL-650
Selmer Centered Tone
Selmer Series 9
Buffet Evette and Shaeffer E13
Ridenour 576bc
Leblanc Rapsodie
Leblanc Symphonie
Leblanc L7
Leblanc Sonata
If I was to upgrade which of these do you guys consider to be the best? Are there any others that I am leaving out?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-07-01 00:28
The E11 didn't come onto the market until the mid 1980s - it was the Evette before that.
From your list I'd recommend the Selmer CT and Series 9 and the Leblanc Symphonie and L7 as they're pro models.
The others in your list are largely student/intermediate level clarinets.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-07-01 01:16
Your teacher would probably disdain most of the clarinets on your list. While many players would love the Selmer CT and Series 9, they are "large-bore" clarinets, and would present a problem with tuning the 12ths, as compared to a "small-bore" clarinet. Did your potential professor offer suggestions?
A lot of Academia would scoff at the Ridenour, mostly due to their own ignorance. For a wee bit under that $999, you can call Tom Ridenour, and get his Lyrique brand new! Very good scale, very well made, a wonderful instrument, just not made in France, and not made of wood. It is a totally professional clarinet. But you may catch gas from the professor on that hard rubber issue. Tom Ridenour is the top clarinet acoustician in the market, and makes great clarinets.
Otherwise, if you wish to keep your teacher happy, you'll probably need to find a Buffet R13, or at least a Selmer Series 10 or Series 10G. All of which I own, but have retired, in favor of my Ridenours. For the record, my Bb is a Ridenour Libertas, which is his top Bb model, but the Lyrique is still quite a lovely top-of-the-line instrument.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-07-01 01:24
Ari,
I am a bit taken aback with your comment "so I kind of question her judgment." Dr. Shannon Thompson at Western Carolina is an experienced teacher and an excellent performer. Why do you question her judgment? That's a rather serious charge.
Also, asking $700 and getting it on a sale, particularly when you have an instrument that is so sharp that you have to sell it, is another thing. In all good conscience can you offer something up for sale that is not in excellent condition? Shouldn't you have to, in good faith, disclose the problem?
I believe you are off on the wrong foot here; what you have said and plan to do does not match what my moral compass would indicate as the correct path.
HRL
PS You say you will be taking lessons from the professor at UNC. Has Donald Oehler accepted you as a student?
Post Edited (2016-07-01 02:04)
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-07-01 01:40
Kinda very true, there, HRL. Didn't think of that angle. I automatically went into "What should he consider" mode!
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: as9934
Date: 2016-07-01 02:04
Hank,
I don't mean to say I know any more than Dr.Thomas in fact I know WAAY less but I am skeptical of her claim just because I've never had the problem she described and no other clarinet player who has played my e11 has pointed out that particular issue. She may well be right, but I am hesitant to just sell the clarinet I have used these past couple of years just because one person says so. If I was to sell it on eBay I certainly would not be marketing it as being in excellent condition but I would like to think I could still get at least $500 for it. If not then it's not really worth selling to me.
Ken,
The base line libertas brand new is about $960 which is a bit out of my price range. Although I would not be opposed to a ridenour, I would just have to buy used.
Chris,
I guess I'm wrong about the age. Somebody told once that it was from the 70s and it's definitely not an Evette.
I would love to have a Selmer CT but unfortunately I don't think it's quite suited for classical music. The Leblancs are nice but a bit expensive. Isn't the Yamaha 650 a professional instrument?
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
Post Edited (2016-07-01 03:02)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-07-01 02:44
Selmer only made one model of clarinet at a time back in the day, so the CT took over from the previous model (Balanced Tone) and was made from the early '50s to the early '60s, then the Series 9 and 9* took the baton and was made until the late '70s.
There have been orchestral players playing large bore Selmers for their entire career, so they're perfectly suited to any style of music - perhaps they're better suited to playing every kind of music compared to others instead of being labelled a strictly 'Classical' instrument.
I got my first set of large bore Selmers when I was fifteen - a BT Bb and CT A and I studied with a teacher who is a Classical era specialist and also a Buffet player. He liked how easily these old Selmers were to play up in the altissimo register compared to his Buffet RCs. Although I'm mainly a sax player, my clarinet playing is very much Classical and I've had no problems playing large bore Selmers in an orchestral setting.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-07-01 03:33
This question was asked not too long ago and my answer pretty much remains the same. Hold off and see what your teacher thinks. Often the schools. the music schools have extra horns for the students, so see whats up with that situation first. I'm actually more concerned and your teacher will probably be too about things such as your practicing habits, your embouchure, mouthpiece, ligature, teaching you about reed adjustments, and who knows, often teachers have excellent connections to getting very fine horns. Used horns from the pro's or the very advanced students. So wait or email your teacher now and get direct advice.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-07-01 03:45
In your price range anything you buy could have issues that may be worse than what you have now. Wait till you meet with the professor.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Pastor Rob
Date: 2016-07-01 06:45
I have three Leblanc clarinets: L7, Symphonie III, and a Rapsodie. All are good instrument that play in tune and blend well all the Buffets in the two ensembles I play in. None have the volume of my RC, but I love the feel of Leblanc keys under my fingers. I bought my Rapsodie for $300 and the Symphonie III for $325. I one repadded and the other plays great as is. I don't think anyone could fault how they play, except the slight difference in sound volume compared to Buffets. For what it's worth, I hated the German E11 I had and gave it away to a sax playing friend. I have red plastic Vito Dazzler that blows away that E11 in every aspect.
Pastor Rob Oetman
Leblanc LL (today)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-07-01 20:53
If the low e and middle b are out of tune (which is not unusual), you might be able to fix it with a custom bell.
Aside from that, don't buy a clarinet in anticipation of college, wait till you GET to college. Then you'll have the advice of your professor. Don't "guess" what they may or may not like. Let them hell you pick it.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-07-01 22:12
And chances are they'll recommend a Buffet R13.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-07-01 22:22
Chris P wrote:
> And chances are they'll recommend a Buffet R13.
>
Yup. They probably will. But still wait till you get there. They MAY be "ok" with you not having an R13 based on the fact that you will not be a music performance major so they may be a bit more understanding of your budget and more flexible with their recommendations.
But go ahead and gather ideas, but wait till you get there before making a purchase.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: as9934
Date: 2016-07-01 23:16
I definitely will be asking my teacher before I buy anything I just wanted to get some ideas. You guys are probably right in that he will recommend that I buy an R13. I would not mind having an R13 but unfortunately it will probably be at least $1000 right? What about a pre-R13? Are these clarinets as good as the real deal? I'm also curious if anyone has any experience with the Yamaha 650.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2016-07-01 23:43
I play R13 Prestiges now, but I used to play both a Yamaha 650 and a Pre-R13.
The Pre-R13 is not the same as an R13, since the bore is different, but they can be good instruments. Mine has a very nice sound, if not as focused-sounding as the R13, but also some slight intonation problems (and it cracked since it hadn't been used in a very long time — be careful about the break in.) It would probably be more similar to an R13 than the 650.
The 650 is very well built, but I personally didn't like the sound as much. I found mine to play sharp with the stock barrel, but with a longer barrel the intonation was fairly good.
I think both are worth looking into.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2016-07-02 00:16
as9934 wrote:
> I would not mind having an R13 but unfortunately it will
> probably be at least $1000 right?
Double that amount for a good used R13 with a fresh overhaul
Triple that amount (or more) for a new one.
...GBK
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-07-02 08:18
It's probably best to spend a lot of time developing a good sound, fast fingers, getting through the required programs for your first few years of college, then pick out a set of horns and perhaps more important is the right mouthpiece and reed setup. A lot of players like the Vandoren M series. I can't stand them, because they tune to 440. So if you buy a new Buffet R13 most likely you will be playing flat in a lot of bands and orchestras. Then if you buy a 64mm barrel your horn will have some dead sounding and out of tune notes, so this is another example for waiting. The Vandoren mouthpieces also shrink a lot, the rubber shrinks when it's heated/molded, so it's hard to find 2 that play the same. My last comment is I talked with Julian Bliss for a bit at the NAMM show about 4 months ago and he sounded great on all of the Selmer's and LeBlanc's! Sure I could hear minor differences of course, he surely could feel the differences as he played them, but his $2000 Bliss model sounded just as sweet as the $6000 Selmer, maybe better, because he was used to it. Julian was one heck of a nice guy. We had a lot of fun playing around together. He is one heck of a wicked player and he's still very young. He will be remembered as one of the best players ever.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2016-07-02 10:30
I can confirm Bob's comments about Julian Bliss, he sounds great on almost everything. One specific thing he said. after I asked him about switching equipment for playing jazz, was that you should be able to make your instrument sound how you want it to despite any equipment.
I personally still can't get over the idea that I can only play as well as my clarinet, but apparently it can be done.
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2016-07-02 10:37
In addition to all the great advice already given, consider that you just might have to get an A clarinet if you're to play in the college orchestra or chamber groups.
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Author: as9934
Date: 2016-07-03 01:39
Thanks for all the advice! I will send an email to my teacher today and see what he says. I currently have two very good mouthpieces: a Vandoren b45 and a Vandoren CL6 masters 13 series. I also have a cocobolo Muncy barrel in either 66 or 68mm so I'm set as far as those two go. I definitely am considering an A clarinet, but I don't want to spend more money for one. Pastor Rob you really got a good deal on those Leblancs. The cheapest ones I'm seeing are like $800.
Also I wish I could play half as well as Julian Bliss.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: Wes
Date: 2016-07-03 08:57
Recently, I was asked to review the many instruments of a well known player in his last days. He sold the entire lot of instruments to one buyer. Soon after his passing, I saw that his pair of R13 Buffets with 80xxx numbers went for a total of $850 on auction. Even if they needed some work, the price was low, so one never knows what kind of bargains one can get when buying used instruments.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2016-07-05 00:14
Ari wrote:
"In August I will be starting college at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill."
Congratulations on being accepted to a very fine academic institution.
"Although I'm not going to be majoring in Music, I will be taking clarinet lessons with the professor there and I'm wondering if I need a better clarinet than what I have now."
"Need"? In short, probably not. While your current clarinet is not a "professional" model, the E11 is still a reputable instrument in most quarters. You plan to take lessons for your own enjoyment and personal improvement so, unless there is extremely high demand for slots in the clarinet studio(s) (in which case, you probably won't be able to sign up for lessons, anyway), as long as you are willing to work hard, the teacher will almost certainly be happy to work with you on your current instrument.
The college music teachers that I know tailor their programs to their students. If your teacher feels that your equipment is holding you back, s/he will let you know. Then you can think about an upgrade. But, in your situation, while your teacher may suggest that a better instrument is worth considering, s/he will probably be sympathetic if you can't afford one.
Good luck next fall.
Best regards,
jnk
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